4321 Xmas tree - help with midfield

[SirSpecialness]

Need help tweaking the midfield in a 4321 xmas tree. 

I want to play a high press campy system with the 2 AMCs given the job of unlocking defenses and the base of the tree to me provide defensive solidity, maintain/recycle possesion and feed the AMCs.  Flanked by attacking FBs giving width and out balls.

Fluid, blanced, High line, play wider, close down more, play through middle, prevent GK short dist

As its stands its set up

           CFs

    Treq - RAMCs

LCMs - CMd - RCMs

CF Mark tighter.

RAMc  hold position, More risky passes, shoot less, mark tighter.  Thinking pivot creator. 

Treq - stock PI's

LCM - Roam (runner)

CMd - stock (holder)

RCM - Tackle harder, less risky passes (additional defensive support)

 

 Currently doing very well possession wise but have a somewhat blunt attack that cant mitigate my 10th best defense. Conceded 49, scored 51 last season.  If it turns into a shooting gallery I opt for work ball into box during game but start games without it. 

 

Up to now struggled getting the lone striker going. Tried AF and CFa (with the 2 AMCs both on support duties. 1 as a roaming runner, dribble support and the other as holding Pivot creator) but find he often gets too isolated. has few touches and makes little impact. Since making change to support role and having a Treq behind I have generated a little more goals but i havent played enough of a sample size yet. 

 

Do i need 2 holders in mid or is one enough?

Should I set both wider CMs as runner supports?

Should i set up the RCM to move into channels and give him roam while making the LCM behind the treq the 2nd defensive support?

 

Any suggestions or improvements to the system. Other than shape and high line high press Im open to all ideas. 

 

Thanks in advance. 

[Los_Culés]

If using this formation I would use two holders, but would use outer MC's as holders with the central MC being more attacking and  supporting the two AMC's, or even use three holders with the central MC being deployed as some kind of deep lying playmaker (Pirlo).

The outer MCs I would give them no forward runs (I have been playing FM16 only for a month so at this moment I do not remember whether this instruction is still present in FM16 :), Roam from position and Move into channels. With these instructions they will assist the wingbacks much better and also allowing them to overlap.

I would also keep the striker on attacking duty to play high up the pitch (making more room for the two AMCs, your key players). Think of Inzaghi supported by Kaká and Seeedorf ;).

[summatsupeer]

I'm going to guess you have too many players in the AM area.  Your CF-S will look to drop into that space, you have an AM-S already there with a TQ-A who might drift, but starts there.  Plus a couple of CM-S who might be in that area to.

You completely left out your defence?  Are your DL/DR providing enough width on both flanks?

Theres a number of potential issues so quite a few possible changes. I would consider:

1.  Changing ST to Attack duty so he occupies the defence rather than trying to do the same thing as the midfielders.

2. Make sure both wingback are providing width, WB-S at least, if not WB-A.

3. Add depth by adding another defend duty to central midfield.

4. Add depth by making your team shape more rigid.  You could add more creative freedom through the TI instruction, but you do have a TQ who can do what he likes anyway.

5. Get rid of the PI's.  You have too many creators without making your AM-S one as well.  Your TQ will be roaming, but so will the CM-S behind him? Could leave your left side open.  If you want your MCR to hold then why not a MC-D?  Maybe a DLP-D + CM-D on the outside with a BBM in MC.  Having a lot of bodies central is likely to force the opponents to play the ball wide, especially to there FB's as you have no-one positioned near them, so having your two outside midfielders (MCR & MCL) be the better defensive players should help your fullbacks.

[SirSpecialness]

Interesting ideas on having 2 holders in mid. My only concern about that, hence opting for a hybrid RCM, is that if the 3 man base of the tree was a denfensive triangle (like a 41221W) it would be common practice to just have 1 D role with 1 support and a more advanced role (DMd-B2B-AP). Does having 2 AMCs in place of AML/AMR in said 41221W dictate having additional defensive support or is more based on the campy high press system I want to play?

 

 

[summatsupeer]

More that you need to stretch the opponents to create space for your central players, so both DL + DR I would expect to push up and play more like wingers.  Because both wingbacks are going far forward often, this needs balancing.   It's not because of the midfield positioning, could be a 2-1, 1-2 or 3 etc and would need to balance them with the wingbacks.  In formations with advanced wide players the need for the wingbacks to provide width is reduced, especially if playing with a winger on one of the wings.

[SirSpecialness]

I got some great advice suggesting only a team mentality change to Defensive. Almost instantly the results have been amazing. Almost won the league from midtable at halfway point. 

Previously my midfield seemed to play piggy in the middle. Instead of the campy high press i intended to set up it was more open,too open. They would lose the ball high up the pitch too often and be on the wrong end of a fast breaking counters in the early transition. Looked like piggy in the middle. Thats the reason i created this thread, i thought my midfield was set up as fault. 

 

*This will be super obvious to those already aware of the in game consequences that mentality effects offensively and defensively but i had a lightbulb moment*

Switching to "defensive" encourages my team to promote the ball to midfield quickly then take a much more probing campy offence. Quickly up, slowly and more patient once there. More attacking moves the ball slower up field and more risky faster passes when there.

As a result my defensive record has improved hugely, conceded much less and key highlights wise there's less frantic rushing back to defend break aways. Offence has vastly improved and my league leading possession rate has increased 4+%. One hand washing the other.

Kept the midfield base on stock TIs as LCMs - CMd - RCMs .  

[summatsupeer]

Interesting update.  A good example of how "defensive" mentality doesn't equal defensive football, use the settings available to produce the football you want.