Explanation as to why I'm wavering in buying FM 14 for the first time ever!

[bartdude]

Oh well,you can't please everyone. For me FM2013 is better in EVERY way to previous versions with enhanced tactics,greatly improved and smoother 3D graphics,stability from crashes etc etc. Yes the media and AI are pants but that would require a massive amount of programming to simulate with anything resembling accuracy. For now I'm perfectly happy with developments and personally look forward immensely to each new edition !

[darthrodent]

My biggest gripe with FM 13 is a distinct inability to understand why I am both succeeding or failing. As a consequence I don't feel much of a sense of achievement if I do well because it feels as though I just got lucky. I'll give you two examples of recent saves.

Single Player Game: Tranmere Rovers

In my first season I absolutely walked League 1 by 13 points in the end after signing only two players on loan. In my second season I finished a respectable 4th in the Championship and I'm about to play my playoff game(s).

Multiplayer Game: Liverpool

1st season I finished 5th, second season I finished 3rd, and third season I was sacked after just 14 games with a forward line of Suarez, Jovetic and Cavani.

I play the game identically each time I load it up: full match until I'm happy with my system, and then I play on no less detailed than Comprehensive. For the life of me I have no way of knowing how or why I failed with Liverpool. What I can tell you is that my strikers were missing one-on-ones like you wouldn't believe, I was hitting the woodwork four or five times a game, my defenders were doing the most ridiculous things I've ever seen, I was getting four or five injuries a match, and my red cards took a dramatic increase, not to mention that in my final game I had a whopping 37 shots on goal (9 on target) home to Blackburn Rovers, scoring none, but losing 2-0 after they had a total of two shots. One of their goals, Coates hit a 30 yard backpass to their striker, and the other, Skrtel did something off the ball in the penalty area to give away a penalty. The replay showed their striker just got on all fours and proceeded to act like a dog—enough for the ref to give a penalty.

Now don't get me wrong, it's my opinion that when these oddities start to occur, it's the game's way of "communicating" something is awry, and I can take it on the chin. The sad thing is that it's not my Liverpool save that's bothered me so; my "success" with Tranmere Rovers has left me feeling decidely hollow, because it appears the governing factor all along was blind luck.

How can the user fix a problem that he doesn't see? That's my biggest issue right now with the game; it feels like a shot in the dark. With the assistant and coaching feedback right now—utterly useless it has to be said—there is no way to figure out what is going wrong or why it is. I'm not going to feign not buying FM 14—I will, because I love the game and always have—but for the first time I think across an FM career spanning two decades, I'm left feeling disenchanted.

[BiggusD]

I think Liverpool is a very difficult club to manage. Did you win any trophies at all while you were there? Did you choose International Footballer as starting reputation?

[haunted1234]

after the disaster last time, iam gonna buy it when the last patch is out, bought it last time for early beta access in september i think?, and the game was barely playable till late march

[darthrodent]

I think Liverpool is a very difficult club to manage. Did you win any trophies at all while you were there? Did you choose International Footballer as starting reputation?

Nah, no trophies, mate. Only played two seasons and 14 games. I always start as an International manager.

[BiggusD]

Nah, no trophies, mate. Only played two seasons and 14 games. I always start as an International manager.

Maybe the players never really respected you so that you couldnt turn around a run of bad form.

[darthrodent]

Maybe the players never really respected you so that you couldnt turn around a run of bad form.

Well that's my point exactly; the best we can do is speculate. I finished 3rd last season (2nd season) and the only player I brought in this year was Cavani. What if I asked the question: Why did I walk the league with Tranmere Rovers in my other save? I'd like to say it was all down to my tactical acumen—after all I play on full highlights or comprehensive and constantly respond to what's in front of me—but then why did I fail so miserably with Liverpool after having a world class team? I played exactly the same way—the way I always do—patiently responding to the match in front of me. If indeed it were my tactics, then the game has a deplorable way of communicating that to me.

[Legion22]

Im surprised this thread is still not locked! Theres a few mods who lock any thread that dares to say anything bad about their precious FM13...

You noticed that too?

[Legion22]

I completely agree with the OP. I won't buy 14 due to how poor 13 is.

It staggers me that after having a graphical match engine for three years it is worse than it ever has been. The UI is clunky and unresponsive and the intuitive feel of 12 has gone.

With the exception of the Development list and the Unwanted list, there is nothing in 13 I would miss if I could get 12 to work again and even those two features are little more than streamlining.

Assistant managers are still idiots and can't be trusted to do anything. Press conferences are still a tedious and unnecessary chore and player interaction is still far too limited. Instead of putting in a Director of Football (who does literally nothing for me) give us more ways to interact with the players, like talking to them about why they are unhappy with what you said in the press. Or let us talk to them about what they said in the press.

[darthrodent]

I completely agree with the OP. I won't buy 14 due to how poor 13 is.

It staggers me that after having a graphical match engine for three years it is worse than it ever has been. The UI is clunky and unresponsive and the intuitive feel of 12 has gone.

With the exception of the Development list and the Unwanted list, there is nothing in 13 I would miss if I could get 12 to work again and even those two features are little more than streamlining.

Assistant managers are still idiots and can't be trusted to do anything. Press conferences are still a tedious and unnecessary chore and player interaction is still far too limited. Instead of putting in a Director of Football (who does literally nothing for me) give us more ways to interact with the players, like talking to them about why they are unhappy with what you said in the press. Or let us talk to them about what they said in the press.

I agree with a lot of this although I don't think the game is poor by any stretch of the imagination. In real life you would know a lot more about your players than is currently possible in FM 13. A striker may, for example, say "I play better as a lone front man". I'd like FM 14 to provide a lot more feedback so we're more tuned in to the consequences of our actions and decisions. I don't like this hollow feeling that's invoked when I do well.

The match engine I think is okay, but I feel the user is still lacking control. Let's say for example I want my left back to get the ball and kick it out for a corner every time he gets it, then the game should permit it. A silly example I concede, however players still don't adhere to instructions as best they should and the Tactical Creator lacks robustness and flexibility.

[lampuiho]

Civ5 is a complete different game than Civ4. They simply just have different designs. There is no standard as to which game is better. Just personal preference. In terms of graphics, however, Civ5 is much better than Civ4.

Football Manager, on the other hand, aims to simulation life as a football coach. The tactic options, player interactions, etc have to be as close to real life as possible. Now there is a standard to it so you can compare which game is better.

[crouchaldinho]

I also find myself wondering whether or not I will buy FM14. FM13 has been a buggy mess for me from day one. It was in a very poor state indeed when released and I found myself extremely frustrated with the game especially when a bug killed my main save after I had put 100+ hours into it.

Personally, I feel as though the game has become somewhat stale for me. For FM13, I found that the new release wasn't actually that different from the previous version but was far less polished and came with a number of serious issues. I have to be honest and say that I felt really annoyed that a new 'feature' like taxes (I'm a virtual football manager, not a freaking accountant!) was added and didn't even work properly until several patches had been released to fix it. I had a lot of fun with FM12 and I just don't really understand how the game took such a big step backwards for FM13.

I'd write more but I'm just ... well ... tired of the game at the moment. Tired of the hype (e.g. 'over 900 other new features!') when all I want is a working and enjoyable football management game.

(I know I'm being negative and that others may well be pleased with the game this year. I guess I'm just letting out my frustration after some very poor experiences with FM13. )

[crouchaldinho]

I'd like FM 14 to provide a lot more feedback so we're more tuned in to the consequences of our actions and decisions.

Amen.

One of the major issues with FM for several versions now has been the lack of/inconsistent/poor/confusing feedback. It gives the player the feeling that he or she has a lack of control over the various outcomes. It creates a false difficulty where progression/mastery comes through trial and error rather than proper strategy. This is a problem in the tactical part of the game (although I must say that it has improved somewhat since the introduction of the tactics creator interface), the team talks, the player interactions, the press conferences, the training and in fact just about everything there is in the game!

There is a lack of feedback about the potential consequences of many of the decisions that you can make in the game. There is sometimes a little feedback about the consequences after your actions but it is mostly inadequate, often confusing and sometimes even contradicted on different screens.

After years of playing this game, I like to think that I have achieved a reasonable level of competence, but I can't be the only one who sometimes finds team talks baffling, for example. Sometimes I'll get an odd and unexpected reaction given the context in which I gave my team talk and I'll have no adequate feedback at all to explain it. I guess the random number generator decided to mess with me, which is not a problem at all, but the game should at least give me the illusion of control and an idea of why the player might have reacted like that in football management terms. Otherwise, how do I know when I've made a strategical error, had a unique issue/event occur that is outside of my control or just been unlucky?

I think you summed up one major problem with the game, Darthrodent. Feedback is really poor and the user often perceives that he or she has a lack of control as a result of this.

[Uwextreme]

I've been through spells of not enjoying the FM series, from 07-10 I barely played the game so I understand when people get frustrated with the game or it just gets stale to them. However FM 13 is the game I have played the most since 06, i've just finished my 31'st season after starting from the beta and not looking back. Like most people I have my own issues with the game, revolving mainly around the transfer AI but I can honestly say this is the most enjoyable FM to me in the past 7 years. I haven't found it easy, in fact it's been one of the most difficult FM's to work out for me but i've really enjoyed the challenge.

When I got really frustrated with FM 07 and it started feeling stale to me the best thing I did was take a break from the game and I have come back enjoying each version from 11 onwards and i'm really looking forward to 14. My advice to anyone who felt like me back in 07 is don't be afraid to take a break, there are two other sports games that i've bought on a regular basis that I won't be buying this year simply because they have got stale to me but I know i'll be one of the first in line for FM 14.

[Legion22]

One of the major issues with FM for several versions now has been the lack of/inconsistent/poor/confusing feedback.

In my current game with Leeds.

Playing West Brom at West Brom in the League Cup. My astm recommends as a team talk "We are favourites here...." I lose the game 2-0 and the he says "This is the kind of game we should be winning......"

So I should be beating premier league opposition away from home.

Same season, playing 17th placed Middlesborough at home "we are underdogs......" Draw the game 0-0 and he wants to tell them "well played for a supposed underdog"

Similarly in 12 my assistant manager constantly told me "X looks lik he is used to playing at a higher tempo" even though X had been playing that position, in that formation without change for 10 years.

[Legion22]

I think you summed up one major problem with the game, Darthrodent. Feedback is really poor and the user often perceives that he or she has a lack of control as a result of this.

This is my main gripe with press conferences. For example, if you respond that "X injury is a blow but I feel we can cover it" and X becomes unhappy, you cannot talk to X about what you said. Thus the only sensible thing to do in press conferences is respond "no comment"

So what is the point?

[Legion22]

Using a car analogy is infractable? What next? A ban for anyone using the terms "Game of two halves" or "Jumpers for goalposts?"

Are vans or motorbikes on the "banned" list? Can we compare FM to anything mechanical? It's a literal minefield of illogical nonsense!

[sfg]

I tried the demo for FM13 and really really didn't like it, so I didn't buy it - first time since CM2. I'll try the demo of '14 and see, but I don't regret not buying '13 at all.

[penseur1]

There are a number of problems here, some due to the lack of good feedback:

1. Defenders conceding corners when not under pressure at all

2. Heading upwards

3. Players find the most creative ways to lose possession

4. Clearing to the middle of the pitch

5. Lack of through balls (which is why frankly ridiculous formations like a flat midfield 4-5-1 lead to top-half finishes)

6. Long shots, long shots, long shots

I have an additional pet peeve being that physicality is valued far more than technical skill in this version, so teams who do nothing else than lumping it up the middle do quite well in league play.