darthrodent Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 I do apologise if there is already a thread on this (I imagine there is somewhere), but I did my due diligence and searched for one to no avail. This is specifically related to tactics so I'm sure I've posted this in the correct locale. I'm essentially looking for advice and validation on the in-game perpetual Assistant Manager Feedback tab. It's not something I've really paid much attention to until recently, but lately I've been focusing on obtaining any "edge" possible against my opponents—football can indeed be a game of inches and success is undoubtedly as much to do with preparation as anything else—so with renewed vigour I'm proposing to maximise all the tools I have at my disposal. Is there anybody out there who uses the tool to some success? Is anyone an authority on the tool? Does it work? Can it be relied upon for tangible, relevant, actionable information? It's split up into three separate entities, which I'll discuss below and ask questions as they come to me. It's currently half-time at Saint Mary's: Southampton 1 Swansea 1 (I'm Southampton). The reason I'm bringing this up in the first place is because much of what the Assistant's has to say doesn't seem to correlate much with the reality that's unfolding on the pitch, which is why above you'll notice I am requesting advice as well as validation. Let me introduce you to the clown himself: Assistant Manager Kenny Black (If you're wondering why he's so bad it's because all I expect my assistant to do is provide accurate player reports) Pertinent Attributes? Maybe Man Management: 3 Mental: 13 Tactical coaching: 4 Determination: 15 Level of discipline: 18 Tactical Knowledge: 3 Black's Feedback Statistics We are giving up too many chances defending set pieces. We should focus on this in future match preparation—What does this mean exactly? Utilising the trusty Analysis tool, Swansea have had several throw-ins, one free-kick in my half, and just one corner—they are yet to have one chance from any of the set-pieces I've given up: the Attacking Free Kick, as it is called, was a five-yard pass and the corner was expertly headed out by my prized midfielder Morgan Schneiderlin. We're struggling to get shots away—Does this mean we're not taking enough pot shots, or does it mean we're struggling to break them down? Maybe I should start shooting on sight, or maybe I should try more through balls? We should try and put more crosses in considering we're superior in the air today—Ricky Lambert has indeed won 5 of the 6 headers he's challenged for winning 2 key headers in the process; one of which he should have scored. Performance Our long passes are connecting very well—Again, using the analysis tool, this appears to be true. However, since I'm already playing a direct game… We should encourage our players to try more long balls forward—I'm already doing this successfully; is he suggesting I switch to the long ball game a la West Ham or Stoke? The final one makes no sense at all… Dwight Tiendalli is an accomplished crosser of the ball. He must be closed down better before he provides a goalscoring opportunity—First off, his crossing attribute is 7; secondly, the three hopeful crosses he sent in to the box—all from deep—were easily cleared. Perhaps what my assistant means is that he's been allowed too much space down the flanks? Tactics We are being seriously overrun in midfield—This isn't true at all. In fact, I'm leading in terms of possession and 85% of my midfield passes have found their targets versus 75% of Swansea's. Now, I understand that my Assistant has about as much tactical nouse as a table cloth; therefore I'm more than willing to accept that his advice is off-kilter so long as it can be validated that the best Assistants in the game get it right most of the time and that their words of wisdom reflect the reality of the match (whatever the pertinent attributes are for giving in-game feedback). And that's the point of this thread really (as long-winded as it is); does anyone deem their Assistant's adice as actionable? In other words, can one derive meaningful data from their advice? If so, any words of wisdom? Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oblivion Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 I don't really pay attention to what my AssMan says durng the match. As you pointed out he can sometimes talk complete nonsense. Unless that's something to do with some of his attributes, maybe Tactical Knowledge (don't know atm the value thereof). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NakS Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 I only use my AssMan advices as a statistical analysis tool. In others words, if something stand out from statistics he should tell me. But the thing is I don't his criteria and how accurate is his analysis. For example, I don't pay attention to him in the first 15 minutes because if a player attemps 2 long passes only, miss 1, your long game maybe is not working...but the sample is not large enough to validate this claim in my opinion. So, I don't treat his advices as gospel but as the same time I think the AssMan only lies by omission. That is to say he is not gonna be telling me my long game is working when clearly it's not. But he couldn't told me my crossing is a disaster. So in my opinion, the AssMan is a widget reading stats for you and pointing you on what he think is relevant by criteria you don't know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEEMOD Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 To be honest, I would keep my eye on body language and condition, I would ignore my Assman and make up my own mind as to what i see happening on the pitch. I think a lot of the information provided is useless and no matter what changes you might make you'll often find he says the same thing anyway! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theron Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 The in-game Assistant Feedback doesn't make sense at all and like many others, I always ignore him! Like the OP said, many of his suggestions (if not all) don't make sense at all! And I have a very good Assistant Manager in Pako Ayesteran!!! But I still ignore him! IMO, the stupidiest thing he says is regarding the 'being seriously overrun in midfield'!!!! I mean, what?!?!!? We're dominating possession IN THE MIDFIELD etc etc and we're being seriously overrun in midfield?? Are you serious?!?!? He almost always says it when the opposition plays 4-5-1! He's good in maths though because 5 in the midfield against our 3 is being seriously overrun! LOL! But it doesn't matter how many you put in the midfield ... it's the tactic you utilise that matters most! Another stupid thing would be .... Player X must be closed down etc etc etc because he's dangerous etc etc! And I'm like ... 'Hey, you're the AssMan .... go and grab our player from his ear and tell him to mark him tightly!!!' LOL!!! I mean, there are already opposition players instructions in place to close them down etc, what else can I do? Go on the pitch and break the opponent's leg??!?!? LOL. Totally non-sense this AssMan advice and if it can't be improved in FM14, I guess it's better to remove it. Ok, I know I can turn it off if I want ... but I leave it on to have a laugh!!! LOL! But still, if it doesn't make sense, it's useless keeping it there anyway in future versions! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theron Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Oh ... I remembered another stupid advice LOL! When he tells you that Player X (your player) is missing a lot of passes and then the VERY SAME player is Player of the Match with a rating of 8.9 or 9.2 or higher!!!! Imagine if I substituted the player because my AssMan said he was not passing well!! Not only that .... then I go to the Analysis Tab and see his passing rate ... and it's like 85% or more good passes!!!!! Oh my oh my! Were you drunk Mr AssMan!??!?!?!? LOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 IMO, the stupidiest thing he says is regarding the 'being seriously overrun in midfield'!!!! I mean, what?!?!!? We're dominating possession IN THE MIDFIELD etc etc and we're being seriously overrun in midfield?? Are you serious?!?!? He almost always says it when the opposition plays 4-5-1! He's good in maths though because 5 in the midfield against our 3 is being seriously overrun! LOL! But it doesn't matter how many you put in the midfield ... it's the tactic you utilise that matters most! The advice is nothing to do with possession or how much of the ball you've had in that area. It's based on the number of players in the area. You might have more possession but 3 vs 5 = overrun. Another stupid thing would be .... Player X must be closed down etc etc etc because he's dangerous etc etc! And I'm like ... 'Hey, you're the AssMan .... go and grab our player from his ear and tell him to mark him tightly!!!' LOL!!! I mean, there are already opposition players instructions in place to close them down etc, what else can I do? Go on the pitch and break the opponent's leg??!?!? LOL. Totally non-sense this AssMan advice and if it can't be improved in FM14, I guess it's better to remove it. He's just letting you know the player is causing you issues, regardless of if you've used OI's on him. If you're getting this message then clearly the OI's aren't working and you might want to check just how much he is hurting you. When he tells you that Player X (your player) is missing a lot of passes and then the VERY SAME player is Player of the Match with a rating of 8.9 or 9.2 or higher!!!! Imagine if I substituted the player because my AssMan said he was not passing well!! It has nothing to do with ratings. If he says he's missing passes then he's missing passes. The AI favours assists and goals, so if your player gets one of those then regardless of what he did the rest of the game the rating will be high. Not only that .... then I go to the Analysis Tab and see his passing rate ... and it's like 85% or more good passes!!!!! Oh my oh my! Were you drunk Mr AssMan!??!?!?!? LOL It means they are important passes he is missing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theron Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 The advice is nothing to do with possession or how much of the ball you've had in that area. It's based on the number of players in the area. You might have more possession but 3 vs 5 = overrun.Yes ... but if we're having good possession, playing well, winning etc ... doesn't concern me at all, no?!? And after all, I have a pair of eyes like he has and I know that we have 3 in midfield and they have 5 ... so he doesn't need to tell me. That's non-sense! He's just letting you know the player is causing you issues, regardless of if you've used OI's on him. If you're getting this message then clearly the OI's aren't working and you might want to check just how much he is hurting you. Well, more often than not ... he won't be hurting at all!!! It has nothing to do with ratings. If he says he's missing passes then he's missing passes. The AI favours assists and goals, so if your player gets one of those then regardless of what he did the rest of the game the rating will be high. Missing passes with over 85% of good passes? Ok, so the player makes 1 or 2 passing mistakes and according to him he's not playing well!! Non-sense as well. It means they are important passes he is missing. I've just played a game and he told me that Player X was missing passes and at half-time he had 23 out of 26 good passes!!! Wow ... great evaluation by the AssMan! He can't just say that for 1 or 2 wrong passes! It's non-sense ... after all, we're all humans and nobody is perfect! It would make sense if he says that and after checking the analysis I see that only 10 out of 26 passes were good. Then, there he is right! But not 23 out of 26 good passes! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Calm down and stop getting worked up. It's just his way of assisting you, it's only ADVICE/FEEDBACK. What you do with that advice is down to you. The feedback you see might be from the same time, so if he missed all 3 passes in the same few minutes then ofc it's an issue, but only for that time period and this is what the assistant was informing you of. I also ignore the feedback he gives as he doesn't understand the way you've set up or what you expect to see from the tactic you use. But the way some reply in here, anyone would think you had to use his advice.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theron Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 I'm calm Cleon don't worry :-) I was just answering your advice/feedback hehe :-) My point is this .... if it doesn't make sense and most of us ignore his feedback, why have it as a feature? If it can be improved, then ok. But if not, might as well remove it. Ok, I know I can turn it off ... but still, doesn't make sense having that type of feedback. Like you said, it's based on a few passes / tackles etc in a few minutes generally. IMO, it would make sense if his feedback is generated over a lengthier period of time during the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 I'm calm Cleon don't worry :-) I was just answering your advice/feedback hehe :-)My point is this .... if it doesn't make sense and most of us ignore his feedback, why have it as a feature? If it can be improved, then ok. But if not, might as well remove it. Ok, I know I can turn it off ... but still, doesn't make sense having that type of feedback. Like you said, it's based on a few passes / tackles etc in a few minutes generally. IMO, it would make sense if his feedback is generated over a lengthier period of time during the game. It does make sense though what he's saying at the time. It's just advice and he's telling you things based off the stats. This might not bother you or make you act because the way you play might be what causes these issues. But none the less, it is his feedback and the things he thinks is currently going wrong in your game. Just because I don't use it or yourself doesn't mean its pointless though. For every person who says they ignore it, I know another 2 people who use it for a quick overview in conjunction with the stats and change things based on this advice and the stats. I completely agree it could be improved though but as it currently is, it can be helpful depending on how you play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theron Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 But do you agree that it needs a vast improvement Cleon? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theron Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Oh ... you've edited your post and included your 'agreement' that it needs improvement! You were quicker than me hehe! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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