zabyl
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Posts posted by zabyl
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17 saat önce, MattyLewis11 said:
Thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread @Johnny Ace @zabyl I am looking to use the 4231 deep in my save with Real Betis, I have been waiting for main release before starting the save and am attempting to play a possession based game. I am initially planning on using a double DM (S & D) in the pivot but am worried about the potential gulf in the middle of the park.
I am going to give @Cleon four part series a read through for inspo. I will keep you give posted on my progress and thoughts with the roles.
Also doing something a little different by deploying a wide AP.
It could all go seriously wrong lol.
I had used a double DM combo to create an example of possession oriented 4231deep before FM22. I used support+attack duty DM combination with a positive team mentality. I tried to adapt the logic of 4231 for 4231deep and it worked as I hoped. If you set correct roles/duties with right players, there can't be any issues in the middle of the park.
I haven't played FM22 yet. But I don't expect radically huge differences on those parts of ME although I see more wide focused gameplay on different streams.
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1 saat önce, niklas88 said:
Yes, I control all training for all squads.
I select "Playing Position" and it does not train the player in the position he plays.
He plays CM and no tactic i have in my three slots has a DM.
Why is training as a DM?What determines playing position and can you change it somehow, without specifically choosing a position and role?
10 dakika önce, niklas88 said:No, he is fully natural at both if this is what you mean.
Guess it's not working as I think it should then.
Should not be named playing position when he is in fact not training the position he is playing...He is natural on both DM & CM. AI could have chosen DM for his best playing position. That could be because of his good defensive attributes or "defensive" training unit. Can you please change his training unit to attacking and share if it changes to CM?
By the way, that is not playing position/role/duty in your tactic. It is his best natural playing position. In my opinion, SI should change or remove this option because of misunderstanding context.
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2 saat önce, smeagoltonez said:
Would the increased risk taking also cause him to potentially lose the ball more?
Yes of course. It increases the chance of making a bad choice when doing a pass, shot, cross, dribbling, pressing and marking.
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1 saat önce, DarJ said:
The starting position of the IF on support is also slightly deeper
I don't think like that but I can accept this. From my personal ME experience; I see them come deeper more to take a pass than start a deeper position. These are two different things. Playing position affects player's starting position not roles/duties. This is what I see on ME. Your approach is fine in theory.
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1 saat önce, Leon92 said:
What does "get further forward" PI do?
For example, what is the difference between an IF(su) with get further forward and an IF(A)?
IFs has lower mentality than IFa and that affects his risk taking. You force IFs to make more forward runs with that PI.
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34 dakika önce, dcayton9 said:
Fast attacking is a pretty good description. Generally, I want to keep the ball on the ground because my players are not physical enough for direct passing relative to the rest of the league and I want to move it from back to front quickly. After a transfer window my most creative players are my LCM and RW, so I should probably put them in playmaker or attacking duties. I want to have a 3-2-5/2-3-5 shape when attacking (libero interchanging lines) and I want the creation to come from the channels, not only crosses from wingbacks. More than anything, I just want to get the 3 defender shape to work in a high scoring system.
I would use one of the two narrower attacking width options as there are no AMC and DMC on 3-4-3 WB. This can help your team's passing, decrease crossing and make more creative central attacking football. I prefer using narrow attacking width options for dual flank and no DM-no AM tactics. And this tactic has two wing backs which can provide enough width on narrow width options. Think about that. Maybe attacking width is your keystone to create something special.
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On 04.10.2021 at 22:25, edu-by-a said:
The new stadium was completed at the start of the 2024/25 season. I had no influence on the size of the pitch. Now the pitch is wide with a size of 105x85 metres.
Can I use this for myself in any way? Does it follow that it makes sense to play more. Feels a bit like Camp Nou.
Bad for defensive football, good for attacking football because of more space. If you have a wide pitch, you can bully defensive opposition with wide attacking width options.
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Did you use LW as an attack duty role like you mentioned @dcayton9 ? If you want to reduce the risk of losing possession on the left, you can use a Treq on LW. Also a support duty sitter CM can be used on RCM with a back-3 system. You use Libero on support so this risk can be taken. If you use Libero on attack, it can increase central creativity. If you have a fine BPD, you can use him on RCB. That side lacks creativity from midfielder and winger.
Lastly, what kind of football do you want to create? This is like a fast attacking approach for me.
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I try to use tricks like drawing attention to a different area to release CMa because of his deep starting position.
CMa can be an effective goal threat if he has good speed, off the ball, composure. Passing & tempo must provide him time to get into box. He can’t reach higher areas on time with a direct style or faster passing no matter how he is fast. He is better combined with a support duty striker.
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1 saat önce, mss100 said:
Zabyl, you haven't really offered any advice apart from use WF's. If I were to use wide forwards the defensive shape would not secure the middle as effectively. A 5-4-1 with a midfield box provides flexible cover over the wings and strong occupation of the centre. You ask about the purpose of wide attacking width and focus play instructions; these are designed to encourage wider occupation by the two 10's. Yes, this would be easier with AML/R but again the defensive positioning would not be as good. The two AMC's are directed to 'Stay Wider' and 'Roam from Position' to again encourage wider movement to create triangles with the MC's and WB's.
You are correct that these movements don't capture the attacking transition phase. However, I would still like my tactic to be effective in the building of attacks from the goalkeeper all the way to a shot at goal.
Perhaps I will continue with the three ST narrow system that seems to offer better offensive positioning. The concern here is of course a lack of penetration.
I will update this post to see how things develop as players become more familiar and perhaps new signings fit better.
These kind of tactics with only more advanced players are on attack, can’t work against every opposition. If I use this formation with your ideas, I would use both WBs on attack as CWB for overloading flanks with focus play, and change striker to a support one for creating different movements and attacking patterns. I would use a sitter (mostly DLP) and a runner (BWM) to get the balance on CM partnership.
You don’t have to change the system you use. You can create pretty solid attacking football with setting roles/duties without complexity. You can try to get a balance when using roles/duties for the style you want, as a starting point. After that; you can make changes for different oppositions.
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On 30.09.2021 at 15:59, mss100 said:
My players seem to be entirely unable to hold the create space when in possession of the ball.
Kramaric (PI's: Stay Wider) and Amrabat (Stay Wider, Roam from Position) should be occupying the spaces either side of the ST, the channels. This would create more passing options for wingbacks and central midfielders. In the upcoming pictures, Kramaric is 10 and Rafinha is 3.
What is the purpose of using wide attacking width+stay wider for double 10s on a narrow formation? If you want your double 10s to play on half spaces why don’t you use them as wide attackers? You want to force players on a narrow formation to play wide. Strange idea but probably it won’t work as you think.
On 30.09.2021 at 15:59, mss100 said:and Rafinha is 3.
Kramaric standing on no.7 (Amrabat CM - Carillero).
Nice and close together taking away all hopes of possession. Kramaric will not attack the space beyond the ST (AF-A or CF-Su or PF-Su throughout).
Again Rafinha and Kramaric standing on top of each other. At this point I believe focus play right and left was ticked, as well as be more disciplined.
No support for wingbacks once again. Terrible
These images are not captured after attacking transtion. These are from build-up and transition. You must look for movements of your front three after attacking transition or in other words when most of your players are on opposition field and they have possession. AMCs start narrower and then they make movements what you want/force with role/duty/traits/PIs.
On 30.09.2021 at 15:59, mss100 said:Editing to illustrate the positioning I would like to see as base line.
If you want this shape, you should use double 10s as WF not CAM.
I wouldn’t use be more disciplined if I wanted to create space efficiently.
Focus play down both flanks. Fine, but who can be isolated with these? Both WBs are on support? How can you overload flanks with them? Do you want to isolate Libero or 3 central attackers? What is the plan? Double 10s and one striker try to attack space created by who? Who can create space for 3 central attackers? What is the purpose of using wide attacking width with a narrow formation?
I see only one attacking pattern. Libero sends ball to flanks and WBs cross to 3 central attackers.
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Before Dybala’s injury; Allegri used a 4-4-2 with some interesting attacking shape.
Firstly, this is my interpretation about their play. Allegri used Dybala and Chiesa as double 10s on halfspaces but Dybala roamed around more to create issues for opposition. Morata mostly ran into the channel between RB-RCB. Cuadrado pushed forward and wide to provide width. Alex Sandro too. Also I saw Alex Sandro in the box more than Cuadrado when they both played as FB. Bentancur played like a BBM or BWM. Locatelli was a deep option. I don’t know what LM/LW played like, I don’t decide. But I know that they tried to overload left to isolate Chiesa or Cuadrado on the right.
Juventus shows improvements. Sorry for Dybala’s injury when he finally started to play better.
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21 saat önce, edu-by-a said:
Think about roles/duties teamwise not playerwise. Your plan is isolating RW to make him goalscorer. You use a narrow width to create this pattern. These are good ideas.
You use an Anchor role. If you don’t want to play high pressing + possession football it is a perfect fit. Let’s say you wanted to create a mixed style of stuff and you preferred an Anchor. Your LB & LW partnership is passive because of LB’s weak attacking intent. Your LB & LCM partnership is weak because LB is passive to combine with LCM. LCM pushes higher before LB gets closer to him vertically. How can this team overload left with passive support from left flank and isolate right flank?
If I want to create same attacking patterns, I would use a WBs instead of FB. I would also change DLPs to APs to make RCM more active. Plus I would change DLFa to DLFs to overload left and central areas more for isolating RW.
If you use an attack duty CM, giving him more support around increases his impact to attacks.
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New pressing, passing, dribbling, new animation engine, personalized data graph… This is fine
Just announce new set-piece creator and take my money.
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1 saat önce, XaW said:
My personal opinion is that they should remove it when the game is played live (aesthetics and such, or just realism, as the manager would never look at random things while the game plays), but add it after the game is finished, since that is quite a normal thing to do...watch the game again, that is.
I respect every opinion unless it is one-sided. I can’t watch games full 90 minutes like real managers. Because I have no time for it. I have no time for extended or the other one, I forgot its name. I can only play on key highlights or just commentary. Timeline is the only option to turn back and see what is going on between a short period of time. Yes, removing it gives more realism to managerial experience. I’m agree. Even so; I have to spare less time for this game because of work & family. Changes like this disincline me from playing FM. Is someone planning to make this game for younger people who have more time? Did they forget their 30+ customers?
Maybe it is time for me to stop playing FM because of having more responsibilities…
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If anyone is interested in replicating City; these are from yesterday’s PSG match:
Build-up shape against PSG’s narrow 4-3-3.
Attacking shape. FBs are like CMs in the middle, wingers are on the flanks, CMs are on halfspaces. I see 2-5 shape up front. I don’t know other player’s positions.
Pressing shape against 4-3-3/4-3-2-1 narrow. It is clearly a 4-2-3-1. City’s defensive shape is narrow because Messi & Neymar played narrow.
Sterling provides verticality and sits between LCB-LFB. LCB Laporte dribbles and passes to Bernardo Silva. FBs are ready to move inside. This season Pep often swaps RCM & LCM in matches to create variety on attacks.
Second half. Laporte again brings ball out of defence. CMs get their respective attacking positions too early. Compact vertical shape and good horizontal spacing.
Could we be all wrong about their attacking shape? This Laporte pattern changes everything. They are not playing as 2-3-5 or 3-2-5. They use a 1-4-5 shape on attack. Look at last two images. The bald tricked us…
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- Popular Post
I think SI staff or mods can create polls from FM Community’s feature requests like they did with playable leagues before. I assume this can be a better way to make most clients happy.
If there was a poll to vote for purple skin, new gestures & team talk, condition features, new match screens, match timeline I would vote for “old one is ok for me, thanks for your kindness”.
Only improvements I expect from FM22 are; tidying up statistics and solving statistical bugs with new data hub feature and reorganizing set pieces. If these two subjects are solved, I will definitely buy FM22. If not, I’ll continue to play FM21 and wait for FM23.
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33 dakika önce, Tony Wright 747 said:
The fact remains that since FM18 the things I described have become worse, and no one, either the developers or mods have really explained why
I suppose SI had lost their talented 3D artists at that time and then these visuals got worse. When I compare graphics from old series and these new ones, I contemplate new match engine visuals were created by people with more coding background than creative skill. No offense but repetitive boring visuals are created by less creative people in 3D world. I think that because I work for 3D industry.
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FM lacks better high pressing from WBs on narrow WB tactics. This is absolute max positioning of WBs. You can see I pushed mentality, DL and LOE to their max. Look at how deep WBs are in comparison with front 3. CMs start pressing before WBs with this shape. When I push WBs to CM strata to use them as DWs, they press high but they can't come deep to create a back-5 after defensive transition. Will we create a front-5 pressing like Chelsea on FM22? Will we create a 5-2-3 WB which can change to 3-2-5 on high press?
Pressing part of this game lacks so many things like this. Let's say I use a 4-1-2-3. I want my 3 front players + 1 CM to press opposition back 4 if they use a back-4. But CM starts to run to close down one of the CBs from a deeper area. He runs to press but he can't reach there on time with pressing & marking OIs and marking PI. This is the biggest issue for lone striker formations with no AMC. Pressing needs to be worked again to replicate real football pressing for these kind of tactics that evolve into different shapes to press high or defend deep. Of course I don't expect a perfect pressing similarity to real life examples. I just want to point out a deficiency which affects game experience negatively on FM. LOE & DL are great adjustments to set pressing line and compactness. I love so many things about this game but this thing, high-press/deep-defence shape is a deficiency to be worked on in detail.
A similar subject which can be solved with concentrating on the offensive side of the game; is creating a proper back-3 from a back-4 after attacking transition. We can't create these movements from defend duty 3 back-line players to create a back-3.
We can't create DMC's relative movement with IWB's movement to create a 2 men partnership on central midfield after attacking transition. IWB provides this movement but DMC doesn't do it and stays central with giving space on the right inside midfield. Why can't we use stay wider in possession PI for middle CB/DM/CM/AM/ST players and sit narrower in possession PI for side CB/DM/CM/AM/ST players? It's clear that arrows are past and they won't come back again. But how will we create movements like these? Is it too hard to add these two PIs to all positions for providing more freedom to player movement in possession? This match engine is fine. I'm sure it can handle these things.
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6 saat önce, pats said:
Just scored this sensational 65 pass Guardiola-esque team goal. The potential of this game is immense! Have a look boys:
I like the idea of defence with ball, mostly used by Guardiola to tire opposition to create weakness/space. This is a wonderful example of it.
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Happy to see WCB role & pass map feature. These are good news. But we need much more than this.
+1 to this. Please SI, consider rebuilding match engine graphics.
2 saat önce, Erimus1876 said:prot651 "3D looks nothing new . Same old stadiums .. yawn .. The game and the game play needs a shot in the arm along with the stadiums and visuals . "
I agree. New managerial features are always welcome of course, but I wish they'd give the visuals a much needed overhaul one year, or at least try and get them back to where they were in FM17 (which, graphically, was by far the best looking FM).
Even FM11 had better looking pitches, lighting, and stadiums than the last three versions of FM.
FM17 visuals for comparison...
Set-piece bugs are needed to be fixed or they should be remade. Because players can be on wrong areas. I mean if they don't follow our set-piece instructions, then why we set them.
I want to see a FB role who creates a back three with other two central defenders with relative movement. We can't do this with recent roles. It creates a lopsided back three where one side becomes empty for opposition to exploit.
Vanilla wide forward and striker role please. With no hardcoded PIs of course. Thanks.
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1 saat önce, Fieldsy said:
which lone striker role is more attacking and penetrative - as in more likely to be a scorer...
DLF or F9?
If DLF on support; I would choose F9 because of its strange deep runs after dropping deep.
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1 saat önce, odee said:
btw, @zabyl did a great job observing the details of the tactic and implementing them in the game.
Thanks. RB and RM interchange positions on attack. Sometimes Lirola uses half space, sometimes Cengiz. I mostly saw Cengiz runs/cuts inside and Lirola pushes higher to provide width on their attacking shape. So I choose WBs for Lirola and IWa for Cengiz. Your idea is also usable but I suggest Wa for RM. Because WM plays a bit narrow. That role can create width issues on the right.
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1 saat önce, shaneomac said:
Love it @zabyl! What were your results like?
This was only an experiment save with Marseille and worked well because they are one of the top teams in France. They outplayed all teams except PSG because I didn't change anything and used it as plug & play. Deleted that save because that's just a replication experiment. Most assists came from WBs & F9, most goals from AFa and F9, IWa, Wa, CMa contributed to goal numbers really good.The only two thing that created an issue for this tactic are CMa and WBs were tired too early. That is acceptable because they must run back more than others to help defence when the ball is lost.
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Maybe it is time for me to stop playing FM because of having more responsibilities…
4-4-2 Diamond Low Block - The Guide
in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion
Posted
I suppose, FM23 match engine can solve possible issues about "lack of midfield width at times", "risk of CMs being pulled wide" and "fullbacks can get isolated" @Cleon. One level increase on team width TI and stay wider PI for both CMs... This can be a perfectly balanced system for both central & wide play. I'll test it after 8 nov.