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Posts posted by steam just is

    broken game engine

    in Football Manager General Discussion

    Posted

    On 27/06/2020 at 09:33, Pasonen said:

    The more complex tactical features come in match engine the more it will eat away players individual freedom. Especially if strict real life statistics are pursued. 

    Why is that the case? I just played a match where Ndombele was a deep lying playmaker in the anchor role for 60 mins and he was replaced by Eric dier as a ball winning midfielder for last 30 mins. The ONLY pass they Both played in the last third of the pitch was a looped pass out to the overlapping FB. With so many options why does the ME make them play this same stultifying pass all the time in EVERY game. Why do 2 players with different traits and instructions play the same pass. Why, after I begged lo Celso to only play killer balls does he play the same pass?? Einstein as we all know said the definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over again. Playing FM this year is madness. I watch every match hoping it will be different but it never is 😂 😂 😂 

    its genuinely appalling. 
     

     

    1

    broken game engine

    in Football Manager General Discussion

    Posted

    Buying creative new players isn’t exciting anymore. They all do the same thing anyway. The match is so repetitive. Even when you play vertical tiki with complete emphasis on central play the only thing your creative AM does is feed the ball to the overlapping full back. which is what your DM with no vision does as well.
    The ME is opposed to give each player dozens of choices so why do they keep choosing the same one???

    and SI getting defensive when the game is criticised isn’t a good look. Listen to your highly valued customers please, there is such a consistency in the complaints. It doesn’t devalue the amount of work you’ve done, just that we believe the match is going in the wrong direction. 

    4

    broken game engine

    in Football Manager General Discussion

    Posted

    Tempo comes into this too. IRL How many times will you hear pundits say at half time a team isn’t moving the ball fast enough. And then at full time the manager says I just told them to move the ball quicker. no manager will ever send their team out to move the ball at a pedestrian pace, for some reason teams will drop into a safer mentality naturally. So I agree, tempo and mentality aren’t set parameters but behaviours based on how the team is prepared and motivated.

    i also think one touch instructions will be a good addition. That would move the ball faster and up the tempo.

    0

    Graphics iPad Pro

    in FM Console and FM Touch General Discussion

    Posted

    It does Adam. Unfortunately the bottom line is SI deliberately compromised the graphics on higher end tablets a few years back. Didn’t share this with the buying public and pretended they got better 😂. Really what other gaming company does that? Consciously makes their graphics worse year on year. It left a really bitter taste as it’s quite clear it was done to make more money and disregard those who were enjoying playing on newer tablets.

    so I’m just watching a worse representation at a smoother speed. Poor form.

    0

    broken game engine

    in Football Manager General Discussion

    Posted

    37 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

    Can assure you there's been a significant amount of work going on with our match engine team over the past few versions to improve a whole host of aspects across the game. Notable the AI has been vastly improved, numerous animations have been added and the graphical side is constantly being worked on to increase the capabilities of what appears (all whilst still trying to keep those on lower-spec machines from being cut off).

    Remember with the match engine it's a representation of football. It isn't 100% perfect. Each chance that happens is calculated based on all the many many factors which happen within the FM gameworld and match situation at that time. There is no difference between what can happen for the player or the AI - if there's such a thing as 'superkeepers' (which for the record we've seen nothing in the code to suggest this) then the AI would encounter it just as often as the player.

    The player will always have an advantage over the AI because they have more freedom to think and experiment. We tend to find players use much more attacking and aggressive tactics as a whole, which can cause them to create more chances overall, but often leave themselves exposed at the back which means the AI get much easier chances on the counter attack. This can cause imbalanced match stats where a player has had lots of shots (not always from good positions) and not converted, where the AI has very few shots, but those they do have are from extremely good positions which are converted.

    This is partly why our moderators use tactical reasoning as a starting point for issues raised on our forums. 

    Everything influences the match, to the extent if I tried to list everything here it'd take an extremely long time.

    Aside from the many external factors which can influence (weather, player morale, importance of match, referee, where the fixture takes place, whether the away team has had to travel a significant distance for the fixture etc) every single attribute (both hidden and visible) for every single player has it taken into account, but certain elements will change every time a match is 'replayed'. Absolutely there is a random element in game much like there is real life, whereby luck and chance will be involved.

    For instance, your best player makes a costly mistake in the first minute of match one - this affects him with an instant drop in confidence and he has a poor game, struggling to find his form. In match two, he makes a key assist, gains confidence and plays exceptionally well. 

    The role of the manager is to use all the elements they have at their disposal (player recruitment, tactics, form management, team talks etc) to make the best choices possible for each and every fixture. But even in doing so, even if you get everything absolutely perfect, in some instances you will still lose or draw a match you would expect to win. That is football in real life. That is also how it works in FM. The game does not 'decide' you are suddenly going to lose because it's programmed that way. You only win or lose depending on the hundreds of factors which go into every match which is then calculated in the match engine based on every single decision that happens. For every pass, each player will use their attributes (such as vision and decisions) to calculate all the available options for said pass. Higher the vision, more options available. Once in that split-second they've decided what pass to play, more attributes are used (such as passing, composure and technique) for the player to attempt said pass.  But even then other factors will determine whether the pass is successful - the other player's anticipation and positioning, whether the ball is played hard or soft and is affected by the wind, whether an opposing player has very high anticipation and decisions to intercept the ball. 

    A huge number of calculations are used just for one pass. Now multiply that across the entire game for every single thing that happens in the match, there are thousands if not millions. And bear in mind for every single calculation the match engine does not determine any difference between the AI and the user player - this is not a factor taken into account. 

    So when you ask what decides the result of the match, it's pretty much everything. Except whether the teams are AI controlled or user controlled. As this is not something used in any calculation. 

    But all the above has to sit into the constraints of trying to produce an accurate representation of football. It's not an easy task and we've never claimed it is. But it's something we're extremely passionate about and work incredibly hard towards. Some people may feel the ME has become more restricted or predictable, but we disagree. The elements worked on under the hood are pretty extraordinary and whilst the payoff may not always be obvious to the casual observer, I can assure you the building blocks are in place to continue to make strides forward in making the game more realistic. 

    Saying all of that (and I'm aware we're in TL;DR territory here), there are always going to be anomalies and matches where you get 'FM'd' - largely this is down to the point I made above; the general inclination of user to play attacking, expansive football compared to the AI's generally more conservative approach. But there will be occasions where someone is just plain unlucky. If you're being 'unlucky' a lot, there has to be a responsibility on the manager that there is something clearly not right. Now you may feel aggrieved if you feel this is less a 'football' mistake and more a 'match engine' mistake, but within your FM gameworld they are the same. We aim one day for the two things to be absolutely interchangeable and already we feel we're well on our way there. But without trying to speak disparagingly about older versions of the game (which I hasten to add I worked on), when you had a match engine where players could literally run through each other and pacy players ran amok, I don't think there's a real provable claim that it's a 'better' match engine.

    To you personally you may find it more 'enjoyable' and everyone is entitled to an opinion. But this match engine is not 'broken' and it is (in our professional opinion) the most sophisticated we've ever produced. 

    This has never been a personal criticism Neil so I hope you and your colleagues dont take it that way. As committed fans , We are stakeholders in the project And have a right to pass comment. I certainly have never doubted the diligence or brilliance of the people who have created such a magnificent game. i love Peep Show but i thought the last series wasn’t great, it doesn’t make the creators or actors any less brilliant.

    you alluded to compromises and, as a high end iPad player, that has impacted the game experience negatively (the match looks worse than 3 years ago). 

    I do wonder why there is a theme of discontent about the ME which isn’t replicated in-house. Genuinely are we missing something? Like you said previous versions had silly anomalies that have been wiped out. 

    Maybe we’re becoming too demanding. I really dont know. I buy the game every year which is the biggest endorsement any fan can really offer. I am confused by the slight disconnect though. 

     

    1

    broken game engine

    in Football Manager General Discussion

    Posted

    19 minutes ago, Grifty said:

    To be fair, isn't that what teams do? They play in a particular way to score particular goals?

    I've set my team in a very particular way in that I have a very fast skilful right winger who skins the full back and sends a cross in to the far post where I have a 6'7" IW and a 6'6" SC for him to aim for, so I score more goals in this way. However I also score goals from corners, free kicks, long shots, through balls, etc.

    IRL, Man City score more goals by getting it to the play maker (Silva, Bernardo, De Bruyne) who play a ball between the full back and centre back for the winger (Sterling, Mahrez) who then slide a ball across for the Striker (Aguero, Jesus, other winger) to slot in. If you see that in a match, you'd say that's a Man City goal. 

    So, I'd have to disagree that there a NO variations in play in FM 20. There are goals which will look similar, but there can only be so many permutations that the game itself can manage due to size of game, amount of animations etc.

    No team will score an even amount of every type of goal, or carry out every type of attack, because teams play a particular tactic to defeat the opposition or play to their own strength.

    I'd actually argue that "Its plays like a set of equations in which teams are competing to get the ball to their winger and then cross to the far post, whatever system you play." indicate the match engine works?

    Ok. So I completely agree you calling out no variations is right. Call it critics licence to exaggerate for effect. However this game feels like the match is very repetitious which isn’t a feeling ive had before with FM (albeit the feeling of concern about the match has been growing post 17).

    there is a lack of variety. “Good football” is often two talented CMs passing it to each other about 10 times in the same position before the ball gets sent out yet again to the wide man. 

    unfortunately the match was better a few years ago which is why it causes concern, and yes opinions differ. However there is a clear weight of opinion here that the match on FM is worsening.

    one caveat is that I play on my iPad. Apparently it’s the same ME but SI have really compromised the graphics from a few years back so it feels worse anyway.
     

    1

    broken game engine

    in Football Manager General Discussion

    Posted

    I have no issues with shots not equating to goals. That’s is completely part of the real life game and is why, for example, Chelsea and Inter Milan won the CL.

    our key issue is with the quality of the match, and it’s something SI need to understand as it’s been really neglected in last few years. There are no variations in play in FM20. Its plays like a set of equations in which teams are competing to get the ball to their winger and then cross to the far post, whatever system you play. Obviously it is just a set of equations but dont let the audience know eh? Keep some mystery. I hope they fix it. The match should be the jewel in the crown- not something to be endured!

    3

    broken game engine

    in Football Manager General Discussion

    Posted

    But we are allowed to comment surely Kodjia??

    i can assure you if we stopped playing and stopped commenting then SI would get worried. We’re passionate about something that’s not great anymore that was great. I’m glad people choose not to put up with things! It shows we care!

     

     

    4

    FM20 Game play issues

    in FM Console and FM Touch General Discussion

    Posted

    And the rest!

    Very rare to get interesting build up play 
    back post goals ridiculously common

    play makers almost always looping ball out to wing

    strange headers in box from strange crosses

    graphics worse than three years ago

    gameplay worse yoy 

    no word From SI
    fix these boys and we’ll have our wonderful game back

     

     

    0

    Graphics iPad Pro

    in FM Console and FM Touch General Discussion

    Posted

    On 12/06/2020 at 21:47, zakbrown96 said:

    That’s a very good question that, @Alistair Skewes might be able to help, if it does I might get the 2018 iPad Pro as it’s under £650 now 

    Sorry Zak but it actually feels worse on Pro 😂

    i don’t know how my iPad mini had better graphics three years ago and SI will never take the time to explain. Only game in history where the graphics get worse hahahaha!

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