[Mentally vs Attacking Football]

Compare Positive without Be More Expressive (if you previously used BME with positive) to your Balanced with Be More Expressive?

Default tempo on positive is higher than it is on Balanced so that's something to consider as well.

[Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)]

Plays One Twos comes to mind if he's not too isolated from the CM-Attack. Tries Tricks if he has really good flair and technique.

 

[The absurdity of FM.]

If I were forced to keep the Defensive Mentality that the preset has and only make two changes to the set up as a whole then I'd toss out Be More Disciplined and move Lower Defensive Line up to Standard (it remains a low block by virtue of the mentality).

Given the initial context Polish Club vs Liverpool and the sheer gulf in quality that entails, I'd scrap the preset entirely and start from scratch but that's personal preference.

 

[The absurdity of FM.]

7 minutes ago, dolph11 said:

Please, I'm intrigued, tell me how this formation would differ from Wolves over the previous two seasons, as I can guarantee you, on paper, it wouldn't differ much. Especially in the defensive strata!

To be clear, I'm talking about the tactical instructions not the formation. The formation itself has never been the issue here, really.

[The absurdity of FM.]

1 hour ago, Mitja said:

I'm perfectly awere of that fact I play FM since CM. I'm also awere every mentality is a setup of different instructions and paterrns. Why do you think all downloadable tactics use same principles (att mentality, all maxed out etc)? On the other hand great majority of tactics here are pretty much the same, There's very little variation, next to zero extreme tactical attempts. No talk of having plan b and c. And ''stupid'' AI has it all.

I cannot speak to what the downloadable tactic section is like, as I've no interest in that area but in this section there's a number of cracking threads with a good variety, including a number on defensive counter attacking football.

Perhaps I've misinterpreted what you mean here though.

[The absurdity of FM.]

8 minutes ago, Mitja said:

You were the only one who offered some true advice hat down to you. But I have to say I disagree with all you said and I didn't quote you because I respect everybody's opinon. 

I'd be interested in seeing your reasoning for disagreeing in the spirit of discussion.

[The absurdity of FM.]

23 minutes ago, Mitja said:

 

I don't get what you are trying to say. I'm not here for advice I only share the view of OP (who happens to be real life coach) who asked a fair question and nobody manged to answer him anything quality except that it is overkill (which is obviously not).

How is this not an answer?

22 hours ago, NotSoSpecialOne said:

The formation itself isn't the issue. It's the instructions and to an extent roles that are. 

• Defensive mentality does not equal defensive football.
• Frequently wasting time can and probably does result in players being tackled and losing possession in critical areas which against a side like Liverpool is suicidal.
• More direct passing, on defensive mentality and be more disciplined doesn't result in counter attacking football at all; all risk in play has been sapped out so players will just hoof it, allowing Liverpool to just build up again and sustain pressure.
• Counter is ticked but as mentioned above, a variety of factors results in this never really being the case. At least in a way that could potentially hurt Liverpool.
• Goalkeeper being instructed to slow down the pace seems at odds with the intended style. Gives opposition more time to get set.
• Lower Defensive Line + LLOE + Less Urgent Pressing especially whilst on Defensive mentality is so incredibly passive that you concede the pitch entirely and give the opposition free reign to play. It puts your defensive players under constant pressure from kick off to final whistle, so unless they're all rocking 20 concentration (among other things) they're going to crack.
• Just as an aside, a roaming playmaker in this set up seems like a bad idea.

It is a shame that presets like this exist; it's a reasonable expectation that you should be able to pick one to suit your needs and some of them are just straight up traps.

 

[The absurdity of FM.]

Defending in a low block can absolutely work in the game too. The tactic just needs to be well designed, among other things and if you were going to set up a low block system it would like quite a bit different from the preset (certainly if your goal is to recreate Wolves for example).

[The absurdity of FM.]

1 minute ago, dolph11 said:

The thing is, that formation in reality can work. Obstruct the passing the lanes, much like my team Wolves did last season. We would camp out with 5 at the back and counter, much like a Catenaccio system. It's just on here it doesn't work as defenders don't really know how to defend in such situations. They don't have the positional awareness. 

The formation itself isn't the issue. It's the instructions and to an extent roles that are. 

• Defensive mentality does not equal defensive football.
• Frequently wasting time can and probably does result in players being tackled and losing possession in critical areas which against a side like Liverpool is suicidal.
• More direct passing, on defensive mentality and be more disciplined doesn't result in counter attacking football at all; all risk in play has been sapped out so players will just hoof it, allowing Liverpool to just build up again and sustain pressure.
• Counter is ticked but as mentioned above, a variety of factors results in this never really being the case. At least in a way that could potentially hurt Liverpool.
• Goalkeeper being instructed to slow down the pace seems at odds with the intended style. Gives opposition more time to get set.
• Lower Defensive Line + LLOE + Less Urgent Pressing especially whilst on Defensive mentality is so incredibly passive that you concede the pitch entirely and give the opposition free reign to play. It puts your defensive players under constant pressure from kick off to final whistle, so unless they're all rocking 20 concentration (among other things) they're going to crack.
• Just as an aside, a roaming playmaker in this set up seems like a bad idea.

It is a shame that presets like this exist; it's a reasonable expectation that you should be able to pick one to suit your needs and some of them are just straight up traps.

[The absurdity of FM.]

6 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

Don't use Preset Template tactics. It will only lead to trouble. From what I remember the Catenaccio preset in the game is with with Defensive mentality and low defensive line which is a big no-no against a team like Liverpool. Basically you are giving then a free license to camp out in your own half and batter you.

Yeah this is the default for the formation he picked: 

This is a really bad preset and only no wonder that OP unfortunately got battered by Liverpool using it. 

[Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)]

Hypothetically I could see Dirtiness playing a role; diving to try to win free kicks and all that.

But I suspect that may just only affect challenges/winning the ball.

[Manchester City Pep Guardiola Analysis and Tactical Recreation]

12 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

Wouldn't moving line of engagement line higher solve that issue in a strikerless system? I tried it for a couple of games and we appeared to press better and win possession more effectively.

However it does mess with my compression. I usually prefer to run high DL and standard LOE in a usual striker formation.

I really wish that False 9 was avay with Positive individual mentality. I think it would improve the role immensely.

I'm sure it would help. I'm usually already on higher/much higher (depending on player quality) when I have this issue so there's not much wriggle room bar increasing mentality (but that has knock on effects).

Have said it elsewhere many times now that a change like that would help it out massively. Maybe for FM22? A man can dream 

[Manchester City Pep Guardiola Analysis and Tactical Recreation]

Yeah, moving your false 9 type into the AM strata does tend to have the knock on effect that it hampers your ability to press high up the pitch. Because the formation is your defensive shape for the most part. I've dabbled with it quite a bit and it's never really sat right with me so I inevitably go back to using a F9, then get frustrated by its low mentality, try true strikerless again. Rinse and repeat. 

[My Swiss Army Knife Method: Creating Defence-minded Pragmatic Football]

Just out of curiosity, since Makelele you'd nominally consider an anchor man and slot in the DM strata, have you tried teaching your CM(De) the Stays Back At All Times PPM? Not sure if a pure CM can learn it but does create an interesting dynamic and more of a diamond shape in the middle than just the duty allows for at times (without also being the same as just having a DM)

[Trying to survive an instant relegation from the Prem.]

Being a freshly promoted side, I would be concerned about playing short and out of the back like you are currently. But maybe your players are good enough to do it against the average Premier League side.

In terms of roles, I would change the left sided DM to Defense. And maybe the right winger to attack for a bit of penetration on that flank.

[Manchester United 2006-2009: The 4-4-2 That Never Was]

I watched it and it really got me thinking, because I don't remember Ronaldo being on the left that much that season vs the way it was talked about?  Maybe I'm getting old and my memory is failing me. 

Does have me wanting to try the midfield pairing in the DM strata though to see how that plays out.

[Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)]

Any perceived loss from attribute re-weighting in the long run is going to be negligible at best, especially in this specific instance. 

This is one of those 'probably over thinking it' things.

[Guardiola 2-3-5 Man City]

In previous versions, the main limiter in trying to implement that specific style of play is how pressing worked in the match engine (both are aggressive pressing systems but have fundamental differences) - changes made with 21 have been a step in the right direction but not quite there yet.

I don't really get the "they don't care about possession football vibe" though. Pep's system (especially Barcelona, as many oft are inspired by) is a very demanding one and the game takes that cue as well with attribute requirements. You can dominate just fine but you need the quality players for it. Trying to play tiki taka with a side that doesn't have suitable players should get punished accordingly if anything.

Lastly you're not really forced to play gegenpress. A lot of us here don't!

[Guardiola 2-3-5 Man City]

This is one of those things that I don't think translates 1:1 between real life and game. Basically less passes in game would be equivalent to more in real life, at least in my opinion as someone who has spent obscene amounts of time on possession/tiki taka tactics.

There's also a breaking point where you could nudge the numbers higher but you would be doing so at the expense of attacking effectievness, which is a poor trade.

[Tips and trick to decrease the number of times keepers hoof the ball]

Just spitballing but Distribute to Specific Team-mate could be a potential reason for this sort of behaviour.  Possibly in conjunction with slow pace down.

The basic gist is that the goalkeeper is being asked to distribute to a player that is likely to be marked (and thus potentially not on as a passing option) and further, slowing it down when he gets the ball is liable to further increase the chance the specified recipient is to be marked.

I'd recommend watching a match and paying attention to what's going on specifically when he does thump the ball long.

But there's a lot going on with this tactic (and potentially player stuff too) so yeah, spitball.

[Enganche, anyone had any success]

As an aside, I've found Engaches (in that set up) to move around quite a bit in spite of the Hold Position instruction but admittedly that was a young player who had the legs for it.

[Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)]

5 hours ago, witticism said:

  Related:

Is there some obscure requirement to be able to teach players to curl the ball? or is it one of those preferred moves that inexplicably cant be taught?

Because I've never seen that be an available option but I could just be looking in the wrong place.

Yeah, curls ball cannot be trained. Can only be learned through mentoring and maybe a very slim chance with players being in the same training unit.

[Enganche, anyone had any success]

I've had some success with the 4-3-1-2 using an engache in the hole but it's a fairly tricky system to get going well IMO.

What I would suggest as an alternative, for an aging playmaker who has lost his legs, is playing him in the DM strata instead. Something like a 4-1-3-2 (with two wingers) since your squad is already capable of a 4-4-2

[Are Trequartistas Pointless?]

Sorry, to clarify, I meant in so far as the striker suggestions were concerned.

CAM-TREQ can work whether the double pivot is in the DM or CM strata. Really, it just depends on the overall tactic - they can even work well in systems that aren't necessarily maximising their space. 

[Are Trequartistas Pointless?]

18 hours ago, Dundalis said:

Whats the best surrounding setup for an AMC Treq? Flat 4-4-1-1 with a support role striker? What role is ideal for the striker? (most tactics use the AF(a), but assuming that isn't necessarily best with a treq AMC?)

Also is it possible to use a Treq in a two AMC, one striker setup, or is that too much crowding?

Honestly in a flat 4-4-1-1 I'd be partial to having the TREQ up front rather than CAM (think Totti when he lead the line for Roma).

Of course, if you really want the TREQ in the CAM slot then definitely go with CrusaderStar's suggestions. You could also make use of a CF(s) as well but that would depend on how aggressive your wide men are.