Making Saka the next "Ballon d'Or" : my attempt to an agressive 4-3-3

[CKBrahMa]

Hi everyone !

After having success with Ødegaard as a false 9 Messi-like (on FM22) and trying to replicate Arteta's 22/23 (on FM23, winning the PL first season, UEL too with 0 shot on target), my next goal is to make Arsenal's starboy Saka the next "Ballon d'Or", or at least the best IF of the world.

First of all, I want to thanks :

- Cleon / View from the touchline for his "Playbook". I will try to follow his teachings to create my tactic ;

- RDF tactic and BTN for all the content they create and that are great learnings ;

- this forum overall, especially all the threads about overload.

Introduction

I always struggle to make B. Saka shine in my FM save, I don't know why (tbf, I always seems to make my stricker shine, but I never manage to make my "wingers" the main goal threat).

Before the start of season 2

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How I want to play

Firstly, I want to follow the demands from the fans that wants 1. entertaining football and 2. an attacking football.

My personal objectives are :

1. play to win
2. play an attacking football, looking for goals and maybe sacrifice a bot of defensive solidity
3. create great chance of scoring, over number of occasions (as Saka isn't the best finisher when it comes to attribute. Same for Martinelli. Only G. Jesus in the overall squad is a great finisher)

Some of the rules I have to follow due to my squad/goals :

1. Playing the right winger (Saka, Marquinos) as IF-a ;
2. Playing with my LFB as IWB as I have Zinchenko and Max Aarons there
3. Play with a 433, because I don't feel like playing another shape

To achieve my goal, I look to create an overload on the left hand-side of the pitch to free-up a lot of space on the right for Saka. Also, I clearly want to play on the counter as Saka is a lighting bolt and his speed and dribbling are is main strength. 

In other words, it means that I should retain possession long enough on the left, without loosing it of course. However, looking at the attributes, my teams is not the best at playing possession football (especially, they lack of concentration and balance, see below).

The Shape

As I said, I want to play with a 433. There are no specific reasons beside me wanting to.

Pros :

• It naturally offers width with the wingers and full backs ;
• having 3 midfielders offers you the ability to have someone running from deep while having 2 CM still there ;
• making you stronger in the central area of the pitch while defending

Cons :

• With no one in the AMC strata, the lone striker can be to isolated and to easily pressed and dispossessed of the ball ;
• with no one in the AMC strata, if they have a DLP/Regista in this zone, he will have a lot of space to operate and distribute the ball
• using an IWB, we're going to be very exposed in the left flank (right for the opposition) and, on the right half-space (as, beside a CD and the DM, we will have no one)

To summarize :

1. We don't have specific needs of creating width as this formation will do it naturally
2. with 3 midfielders and 2 players on the flank, we can easily put 4 (even 5 with the lone sticker, see below) players out of 8 (not counting the CD and the GK) on the left hand-side of the pitch, to create an overload.
3. our striker will have to work a lot to both cover the ST and AMC strata but also remaining a goal threat if the opponent doesn't fall for our overload.

 

Playing style

Firstly, I would say that Arsenal is a "low tier" Top side teams. Our players are, without a doubt, better than the ones in Newcastle, Wolves, etc. We're even with Chelsea, Spurs. However, in terms of attributes, we're still behind City and Liverpool (and United of course  ).

So, we can play a lot of playing style with success, but against the Elite teams, we have to play on our strengths.

Cleon define Attacking playstyle this way :

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Attacking football is all about player movement and how well you distribute the ball and overload the opposition. You look to put pressure on the opposition and commit players forward. Then when the time is right you'll look to carve open the defence with intelligent play and skill. While at the same time being aware of how open you are to the counterattack. This kind of play can be really risky at times though

It is due to this definition that I think the idea I had match the playstyle : we want to overload the pitch on the left to switch it to the other side ("how well you distribute the ball and overload the opposition" "Then when the time is right you'll look to carve open the defence with intelligent play and skill.") ; we want to take the opposition on the counter (" commit players forward").

Cleon states that the main attributes for this style are :

• Dribbling
• First touch
• Passing
• Technique
• Anticipation ;
• Composure ;
• Vision ;
• Flair ;
• Off the ball ;
• Teamwork ;
• Pace ;
• Acceleration ;
• Agility.

As you can see, Arsenal is above average on all of this attributes, while we lack very much on other main attributes for other playstyle (like, possession football).

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The current tactic

Here is the current tactic that, as I think, will answer all the need for my approach.

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I will focus on some of the aspects :

• Playing with a DM-d. As the attacking approach is very risky, I want someone staying at the back with the CD to help in case of a counter ;
• FB-s : I don't have the right player for a true WB-s. It doesn't mean the FB won't overlap even without the TI, he may do it. However, as I have a Mezz-a and an IF-a, I need someone to stay a bit behind to cover the space behind their runs ;
• Mezz-a and IF-a. Yes, they will occupy the same space (right HS), but not in the same way. The Mezz comes from the midfield to the HS (in-out) while the IF comes from the flank to the center by the HS (out-in). I think it can create great cross runs and opening more space ;
• BWM-s : as I lack of skills to have a proper possession style, the main issue I may face that I don't want to have is loosing the ball during the overload phase (while, loosing it during the counter on the right side is, yet a risk, but one I have and accept to take). Futhermore, having an IW-s, a F9 and a IWB-s, I have enough creator on this side ;
• Focus down the right flank + balanced : when we read the TI, it states that the play is going to be more agressive than the usual. My understanding is that, if the teams mentality is Positive, the right side is going to play like it is on Attacking or Very Attacking. My aim is to have my IF-a and Mezz-a on attacking, while the rest of the teams is, at tops, on Positive. When I choose Positive, the right side is on very attacking, which is too much. Furthermore, as I don't have the best players for possession, I don't want them to try something too risky during the overload ;
• Mid block + high LOE : Mid block because I need space to counter but not to much space or the overload is going to be less efficient, or even dangerous if we loose the ball ;
• Counter but NO COUNTER PRESS : counter links with everything I said and the playstyle. No counter press because I don't want the players on the right to chase the ball. I leave it untick for the moment.

 

I hope you enjoyed the reading ! I will update this thread (pictures, tweak, transfer window).

It is a first for me creating a tactic this way. Please, feel free to comment or help me

Edited November 28, 2022 by CKBrahMa

[frukox]

Great start, mate. Keep up the good work! Looking forward to seeing the tactics screen soon:)

[CKBrahMa]

il y a 16 minutes, frukox a dit :

Great start, mate. Keep up the good work! Looking forward to seeing the tactics screen soon:)

Thanks ! To be fair, I'm a bit anxious as it is new for me to dedicate myself to make a winger work as an IF-a, especially as I overperformed last season.

[frukox]

Not that hard if your gear the tactic for him;)

My only concern is your DM will be very deep during the build-up, a DM supporting the midfield and holding the position may probably be what you're looking for but make sure you play someone with some dose of pace, tackling, passing and vision to switch the point of attack and/or recycle possession in case of lack of passing options at that very moment-don't forget to load on necessary traits, too as he will be the defensive pivot during transitions.

Edited November 27, 2022 by frukox

[CKBrahMa]

il y a 21 minutes, frukox a dit :

Not that hard if your gear the tactic for him;)

My only concern is your DM will be very deep during the build-up, a DM supporting the midfield and holding the position may probably be what you're looking for but make sure you play someone with some dose of pace, tackling, passing and vision to switch the point of attack and/or recycle possession in case of lack of passing options at that very moment-don't forget to load on necessary traits, too as he will be the defensive pivot during transitions.

Which traits would you recommend ? I have to say that I'm still a newbie for PPM

 

Currently preparing the Transfer window. I'm selling Rob Holding (11M, max 16M), Elneny (free transfer). I also want to sell Xhaka as he as a huge wages and is getting old. I think I'm going to make these buy :

• Adam Webster,as he is cheap (8 million) and can be and okay'ish rotation CB for Saliba

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• Konrad Laimer. He's on sell for 38M, which is quite expensive for me but, a very great profile for brigging someone a bit more defensive
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[frukox]

@CKBrahMaOf course, a defensive pivot will benefit from:

-Switches Ball to Other Flank

- Dictates Tempo

-Tries Killer Passes

-Look for Pass Rather Than Attempting to Score(if he has bad long shot attribute)

These will make him a playmaker without being a ball magnet-best of both worlds if you're into fast transitions;)

By the way, Webster will be enough for a back-up CB while Laimer can only play properly as a covering defensive player. Don't expect much from him for offensive purposes. 

Edited November 27, 2022 by frukox

[CKBrahMa]

il y a 2 minutes, frukox a dit :

@CKBrahMaOf course, a defensive pivot will benefit from:

-Switch Ball to Other Flank

- Dictate Tempo

-Tries Killer Passes

-Look for Pass Rather Than Attempting to Score(if he has bad long shot attribute)

These will make him a playmaker without being a ball magnet-best of both worlds if you're into fast transitions;)

By the way, Webster will be enough for a back-up CB while Laimer can only play properly as a covering defensive player. Don't expect much from him for offensive purposes. 

Ok, copy that !

For Webster, that's what I thought

For Laimer, I do want a more defensive one (more defensive than Partey, who can be more of a runner). I hesitating with Camara : he's younger BUT worst than Laimer. However, he cost max 20M (against 38 for Laimer). I know Liverpool and other club wants Laimer too, so I think I better go with him and go for Camara if I don't get Laimer

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[frukox]

15 dakika önce, CKBrahMa said:

Ok, copy that !

For Webster, that's what I thought

For Laimer, I do want a more defensive one (more defensive than Partey, who can be more of a runner). I hesitating with Camara : he's younger BUT worst than Laimer. However, he cost max 20M (against 38 for Laimer). I know Liverpool and other club wants Laimer too, so I think I better go with him and go for Camara if I don't get Laimer

  Hide contents

 

Both can be bought. However, being younger Camara could improve a lot thus being more cost-effective.

[CKBrahMa]

Sold K. Tierney for 41M to Barcelona.

He's a great player but, not playing with a left WB but only IWB, it was great money and quite a wage to cash out.

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[frukox]

@CKBrahMaFind a fast preferably young all-round midfielder and retrain him to to LB position.

[CKBrahMa]

il y a 37 minutes, frukox a dit :

@CKBrahMaFind a fast preferably young all-round midfielder and retrain him to to LB position.

I already have Zinchenko and Aarons. If I have too many injuries there, still have Maintland-Niles or even Ben White. Should do the job

[CKBrahMa]

It's only friendlies but it looks promissing ! Both IF-a (11 goals, 9 assists) and F9 (11 goals, 1 assists) scores ! The IW-s had 6 goals and 5 assits and the Mezz 7 goals and 6 assists (highly influated by the 19-0 friendly).

I'm just enjoying the tactic now, I will wait official games to analyze and tweak it.

 

I’m also training Saka and Pepe the following PPM : Get further forward. What are your opinion on that ? Maybe I’m miss interpreting and I should train « beats the offside trap » ?

Edited November 27, 2022 by CKBrahMa

[frukox]

6 saat önce, CKBrahMa said:

It's only friendlies but it looks promissing ! Both IF-a (11 goals, 9 assists) and F9 (11 goals, 1 assists) scores ! The IW-s had 6 goals and 5 assits and the Mezz 7 goals and 6 assists (highly influated by the 19-0 friendly).

I'm just enjoying the tactic now, I will wait official games to analyze and tweak it.

 

I’m also training Saka and Pepe the following PPM : Get further forward. What are your opinion on that ? Maybe I’m miss interpreting and I should train « beats the offside trap » ?

If you want them to run into space behind defenders the latter makes more sense but there is a caveat. They need a great dose of pace, acceleration, concentration, decisions, off the ball, work rate and anticipation(running behind while being onside) and composure, balance, finishing, technique, first touch(controlling the ball and finishing properly) Generally, the former lends itself to be utilized for attacking full backs or players attacking the box.

[CKBrahMa]

Il y a 3 heures, frukox a dit :

If you want them to run into space behind defenders the latter makes more sense but there is a caveat. They need a great dose of pace, acceleration, concentration, decisions, off the ball, work rate and anticipation(running behind while being onside) and composure, balance, finishing, technique, first touch(controlling the ball and finishing properly) Generally, the former lends itself to be utilized for attacking full backs or players attacking the box.

Thanks a lot for all the great advices ! Maybe one day I will try to make a guide about most of PPM’s (maybe a video one, if I dig into it) haha.

If I follow your post, Saka should be great at beating offside trap (beside finishing, but 12 is okay’ish and it will be a problem no matter what).

During my research, I found what you said (Further forward being mostly for FB or CM). I also found that most of the people said that the Beat the Offside PPM make their player being caught offside more often than usual. Don’t know if it’s a bug or a misuse : don’t want to face a wall here.

[frukox]

50 dakika önce, CKBrahMa said:

Thanks a lot for all the great advices ! Maybe one day I will try to make a guide about most of PPM’s (maybe a video one, if I dig into it) haha.

If I follow your post, Saka should be great at beating offside trap (beside finishing, but 12 is okay’ish and it will be a problem no matter what).

During my research, I found what you said (Further forward being mostly for FB or CM). I also found that most of the people said that the Beat the Offside PPM make their player being caught offside more often than usual. Don’t know if it’s a bug or a misuse : don’t want to face a wall here.

So, in the case, I wouldn't have him learn the trait. It may not be that beneficial in the long run. Personally, I never use it.

[CKBrahMa]

il y a 16 minutes, frukox a dit :

So, in the case, I wouldn't have him learn the trait. It may not be that beneficial in the long run. Personally, I never use it.

You’re right. It just appears that Saka doesn’t try that much to go behind the defense. Here may be the issues (and the idea to solve it) :

• maybe my overload is more central than in the left hand-side (I see Martinelli getting space too). Solution : put G.Jesus as a left ST, not center ;
• we played weak teams so we went very high up the pitch, leaving him less space 
• maybe one’s of Saka PPM (like to dribble a lot)

 

[frukox]

12 dakika önce, CKBrahMa said:

You’re right. It just appears that Saka doesn’t try that much to go behind the defense. Here may be the issues (and the idea to solve it) :

• maybe my overload is more central than in the left hand-side (I see Martinelli getting space too). Solution : put G.Jesus as a left ST, not center ;
• we played weak teams so we went very high up the pitch, leaving him less space 
• maybe one’s of Saka PPM (like to dribble a lot)

 

Don't forget to make changes one by one so that you could easily track what is happening and why and add pictures for more proper advice.

[CKBrahMa]

il y a 15 minutes, frukox a dit :

Don't forget to make changes one by one so that you could easily track what is happening and why and add pictures for more proper advice.

Yes sure ! First, I will wait the first 3 official game before making any change.

Then, if I have one, it would be replacing G. Jesus as a Left ST.

[Miragepredator]

16 hours ago, CKBrahMa said:

I also found that most of the people said that the Beat the Offside PPM make their player being caught offside more often than usual. Don’t know if it’s a bug or a misuse : don’t want to face a wall here

Ive not really experienced this problem and i usually apply this to the front 5 players in my tactic while playing them on support roles, i also add "gets into opposition box", it mimics a JdP system with lots of movement. imo the more players you're capable of getting into the box the better. 

[CKBrahMa]

Il y a 8 heures, Miragepredator a dit :

Ive not really experienced this problem and i usually apply this to the front 5 players in my tactic while playing them on support roles, i also add "gets into opposition box", it mimics a JdP system with lots of movement. imo the more players you're capable of getting into the box the better. 

JdP ?

[EnigMattic1]

Juego de Posicion probably.

[frukox]

30 dakika önce, CKBrahMa said:

JdP ?

The phrase for the positional play in Spanish

[CKBrahMa]

It makes sense !

however, I don’t know if I want a positional play, here…

[CKBrahMa]

Hi ! Sorry I could not update as it was an insane working week !

I finish my first 3 official games (Community Shield : win 1-0 against Liverpool ; UEFA Super cup : win 2-1 against Barcelona ; first game of PL - win 1-2 (A) against Brentford).

 

I have to review these games, but here are my first impression :

- Mezz-a and IF-a run in the same space. I thought the Mezz would go wider with a IF cutting inside, but they stick together or put to many times the IF wider. Ødegaard had too many runs I wanted Saka to have

- I think I should drop my DL to, at least, higher (instead of Much Higher). Zinchenko is not fast enough and get caught to many times in behind. The same can be said for the other defenders, but they’re a bit faster.

- My Data Hub said that Martinelli lost to many balls. I have to take a look (if it’s for risky passes, it’s ok. If he’s getting press 2v1 too often, it’s a problem)

- I think Saka still need more space. Maybe dropping the DL will help lowering my block and therefore freeing more space in behind the opponent DL

[CKBrahMa]

Game against Liverpool

Situation 1 : countering

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Martinelli find a ball for Odegaard. Liverpool take it back and then they fail to kick it long : Odegaard find Jesus in space but the GK manage to protect his goal.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CKBrahMa]

Game against Liverpool : Situation 2 - Overloading left before realising on the right 

 

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We overload on the left and we are on a 2v1 on the right side. However, Saka and Odegaard are too close.

G. Jesus finds a cross for Odegaard, who is in a difficult spot to shot.

 

 

[CKBrahMa]

Liverpool, Situation 3 : Odegaard takes the run from Saka, and miss the shot

[CKBrahMa]

Liverpool, situation 4 : Great situation and a clear chance to score that we miss

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[CKBrahMa]

Liverpool, situation 4bis

 

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Odegaard finds Danilo on a late run, but he miss the goal

 

[CKBrahMa]

Barcelona : Win 2-1. Situation one : how they scored :

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They easily play on our left to find pedri on the middle

 

They played it back to Araujo, then de Jong, who find Dembele, who got space and beat Zinchenko

 

 

 

Dembele find Porro, who then find Memphis : 1-0 for Barcelona

 

 

[CKBrahMa]

Barcelona : 2-1. Situation 2 : How we scored :

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We win back the ball and played it from the back

G. Jesus finds Saka, who then finds Martinelli

Martinelli finds Zinchenko, who finds Partey who pass into space to find Martinelli

 

 

[CKBrahMa]

Brentford : how they score against us :

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Roberts is find with a lot of space in front of him

 

Arsenal players on him : his only solution is to try a killer ball in behind our DL.Mbeumo has 2

 

Dovbyk is faster than my defenders : he scores

 

 

 

[CKBrahMa]

Here are my tweaks from these 3 first games :

Out of possession : we're too often beaten by speed, so I lower the DL.

On possession :

1. Odegaard runs to much on Saka's space. I put him on Mezz-s. To create more space, I also ask White to get further forward and run on flank with the ball.

2. Not a tweak atm, but I was thinking of putting Saka as a RMD ?

 

If you have suggestin, I'm open to all ideas

Edited December 4, 2022 by CKBrahMa

[frukox]

7 saat önce, CKBrahMa said:

Here are my tweaks from these 3 first games :

Out of possession : we're too often beaten by speed, so I lower the DL.

On possession :

1. Odegaard runs to much on Saka's space. I put him on Mezz-s. To create more space, I also ask White to get further forward and run on flank with the ball.

2. Not a tweak atm, but I was thinking of putting Saka as a RMD ?

 

If you have suggestin, I'm open to all ideas

First, sorting out the roles will help you get rid of most of the problems. To get the best out of Saka you need to isolate him against opposition FB so you need 1 vs 1 duels. IFA is typically what I'd use for a main goalscorer starting wide then cutting inside and attack half-spaces like Mbappe.

But how can you do that? By moving the opposition defence to your left side and this will unlock the right flank for Saka aka a left-hand side overload.

Let's start from the front line. What do you need to get from the striker for this type of system? Ideally he needs to occupy the centre-backs and be the second goal threat giving you the vertical height you need for the players behind him creating space for them or can come deep which will open up space behind defence for Saka to run into. This will also create marking problems for defenders. So what role can Gabriel Jesus be given?

 

Edited December 5, 2022 by frukox

[CKBrahMa]

Il y a 4 heures, frukox a dit :

First, sorting out the roles will help you get rid of most of the problems. To get the best out of Saka you need to isolate him against opposition FB so you need 1 vs 1 duels. IFA is typically what I'd use for a main goalscorer starting wide then cutting inside and attack half-spaces like Mbappe.

But how can you do that? By moving the opposition defence to your left side and this will unlock the right flank for Saka aka a left-hand side overload.

Let's start from the front line. What do you need to get from the striker for this type of system? Ideally he needs to occupy the centre-backs and be the second goal threat giving you the vertical height you need for the players behind him creating space for them or can come deep which will open up space behind defence for Saka to run into. This will also create marking problems for defenders. So what role can Gabriel Jesus be given?

 

Yes, that’s exactly what I want : an overload to the left-side to free up space for Saka on the right.

For the frontline, here are the role we can use :

- TF-s as he will 1. Occupy the CB by his presence and 2. Be a fixation point for Saka. However, I don’t think Jesus (and Nketiah) are the right players to do that, at least against most of the teams. Furthermore, it appears that, in the ME, that the TF is a ball magnet, which I don’t aim for ;

- A trequartista as its role is to create space to support the attacks. However, a Trq does not create space like I want : he drifts on the side and, to my knowledge, I can’t tell him to only drift on the left (maybe by putting him as a ST left ?)

- the DLF : he drops deep and help with the build up + he is more generous than the F9 (see below). He does slow down the play which can help attract people (the ball stays longer on the left). However, I feel I already play slow enough on the left side to not slow it more. Furthermore, the DLF drops down less and is less central deep than the F9. So he can drop deep but on the right side…

- The F9, my choice. As he drops deep and quite centrally, he may bring a CB with him. However, if he drops to deep, maybe the opp. DM will mark him instead of the CB. Looking at the screens, it feels like it is more the CB that goes on Jesus.

I like the F9 as he’s more dangerous than a DLF, he makes more agressive runs but still is a creator. In add, G. Jesus is a gifted player and I feel that the F9 role suits him the best, contrary to DLF-s.

That’s why I went for F9 and not DLF.

but maybe I’m misunderstanding something ! 
 

thanks man for your advice and helping me thinking this through  

[frukox]

2 saat önce, CKBrahMa said:

Yes, that’s exactly what I want : an overload to the left-side to free up space for Saka on the right.

For the frontline, here are the role we can use :

- TF-s as he will 1. Occupy the CB by his presence and 2. Be a fixation point for Saka. However, I don’t think Jesus (and Nketiah) are the right players to do that, at least against most of the teams. Furthermore, it appears that, in the ME, that the TF is a ball magnet, which I don’t aim for ;

- A trequartista as its role is to create space to support the attacks. However, a Trq does not create space like I want : he drifts on the side and, to my knowledge, I can’t tell him to only drift on the left (maybe by putting him as a ST left ?)

- the DLF : he drops deep and help with the build up + he is more generous than the F9 (see below). He does slow down the play which can help attract people (the ball stays longer on the left). However, I feel I already play slow enough on the left side to not slow it more. Furthermore, the DLF drops down less and is less central deep than the F9. So he can drop deep but on the right side…

- The F9, my choice. As he drops deep and quite centrally, he may bring a CB with him. However, if he drops to deep, maybe the opp. DM will mark him instead of the CB. Looking at the screens, it feels like it is more the CB that goes on Jesus.

I like the F9 as he’s more dangerous than a DLF, he makes more agressive runs but still is a creator. In add, G. Jesus is a gifted player and I feel that the F9 role suits him the best, contrary to DLF-s.

That’s why I went for F9 and not DLF.

but maybe I’m misunderstanding something ! 
 

thanks man for your advice and helping me thinking this through  

An F9 will come deep and stay central being one of the main creators in the side hopefully keeping defenders busy or taking a defender with himself thus creating space behind defence or he will find enough time ,turn and  pick out a runner-both options are promising- so it's a good call.

What about the left flank? What should we expect from him to help an overload process there and this can be done in a number of ways. It's totally up to you. Ideally, as F9 will come deep you need another runner pinning the other opposition FB and play off each other- a combination play. How can you achieve this?

Edited December 5, 2022 by frukox

[CKBrahMa]

il y a 52 minutes, frukox a dit :

An F9 will come deep and stay central being one of the main creators in the side hopefully keeping defenders busy or taking a defender with himself thus creating space behind defence or he will find enough time ,turn and  pick out a runner-both options are promising- so it's a good call.

What about the left flank? What should we expect from him to help an overload process there and this can be done in a number of ways. It's totally up to you. Ideally, as F9 will come deep you need another runner pinning the other opposition FB and play off each other- a combination play. How can you achieve this?

When talking about another runner pinning the other opposition FB and play off each other, you mean the FB on the side opposite to Saka ?

If so, we can say that Martinelli does it in a way as an IW-s. However, we can say that’s not enough ? In that case, I could switch the BWM to a B2B but I’m not sure he will attract the FB.

Or, I can switch Martinelli to a W-s ?

(I can’t put Zinchenko as a WB as it is one of the « rule » I impose myself : play him as a IWB)

[frukox]

8 dakika önce, CKBrahMa said:

When talking about another runner pinning the other opposition FB and play off each other, you mean the FB on the side opposite to Saka ?

If so, we can say that Martinelli does it in a way as an IW-s. However, we can say that’s not enough ? In that case, I could switch the BWM to a B2B but I’m not sure he will attract the FB.

Or, I can switch Martinelli to a W-s ?

(I can’t put Zinchenko as a WB as it is one of the « rule » I impose myself : play him as a IWB)

Yes, that's right. What kind of support do you want him to offer and where to help Saka score more goals and which role do you need ahead of him to combine with each other perfectly. You need to take both left CM and left AM into consideration while thinking about this to create the overload you need.

Edited December 5, 2022 by frukox

[CKBrahMa]

il y a 23 minutes, frukox a dit :

Yes, that's right. What kind of support do you want him to offer and where to help Saka score more goals and which role do you need ahead of him to combine with each other perfectly. You need to take both left CM and left AM into consideration while thinking about this to create the overload you need.

Sorry, English is not my first language and I’m not sure I understand what you said there haha

[frukox]

4 dakika önce, CKBrahMa said:

Sorry, English is not my first language and I’m not sure I understand what you said there haha

I know you're French from your previous posts, no worries

Your left AM, CM and IWB will create the overload. Now that we know you want an IWB which sits narrow, occupies left half-space and attacks wide areas when space is vacant on that flank you need to decide on the role and duty of your left wide AM and CM. What do you expect from them to help you create an overload there? What's your plan?

[CKBrahMa]

il y a 52 minutes, frukox a dit :

I know you're French from your previous posts, no worries

Your left AM, CM and IWB will create the overload. Now that we know you want an IWB which sits narrow, occupies left half-space and attacks wide areas when space is vacant on that flank you need to decide on the role and duty of your left wide AM and CM. What do you expect from them to help you create an overload there? What's your plan?

Oh, ok !

Well, 

1. For the AML, I opted for an IW-s as they start wide and comes in the HS. I want him to be a creator (crossing or passing between the opponent). However, as he’s still a IW, he may run in the HS if he thinks it’s the best option (and Martinelli does it sometimes, maybe because of the « pass into space » TI ?)

2. For the CML, I opted for a BWM-s because, as it is the side I want to overload, it is also the side I don’t want to loose the ball. However, it is maybe overkill to add the BWM as it’s already the more crowded side of the pitch. That’s why I was thinking of a B2B to add a runner.

 

writting all of this made me think of this : maybe I can swap Ødegaard and Partey ?

- Ødegaard is a fantastic creator, not so much of runner (or, not a finisher as he has the attributes to run). So I could put him as a AP-a on the left side (side I want to overload)

- Partey as a BWM on the right as if I loose the ball on the right, I have very few people there to win it back.

The Bonus here is that Ødegaard would more easily find Saka with his left foot on the left side of the pitch (rather than on the right side were he forced Saka to go wider ti be found).

[frukox]

@CKBrahMaYou will definitely lack in penetration from this side without any additional traits. Some problems are:

- No one pinning opposition FB early- IWS will cut inside early and opposition FB is about to take a day off:) because of this.

- No one occupying left HS high and early. How do you make opposition overcommit there without anyone disturbing their channels with incisive runs from deep?

- No reliable width to keep defenders focused on the left side.

I don't know their FM23 profiles. Can't say anything about it but personally I care about attributes little. What matters most is a good amalgamation of role/duty distribution and supporting TIs.

Edited December 5, 2022 by frukox

[CKBrahMa]

il y a 8 minutes, frukox a dit :

@CKBrahMaYou will definitely lack in penetration from this side without any additional traits. Some problems are:

- No one pinning opposition FB early- IWS will cut inside early and opposition FB is about to take a day off:) because of this.

- No one occupying left HS high and early. How do you make opposition overcommit there without anyone disturbing their channels with incisive runs from deep?

- No reliable width to keep defenders focused on the left side.

I don't know their FM23 profiles. Can't say anything about it but personally I care about attributes little. What matters most is a good amalgamation of role/duty distribution and supporting TIs.

I see.

1. Putting Martinelli as a W-s, even on his wrong foot could make it.

2. Switching Partey and Ødegaard, with the latest being a Mezz-a to make a threat

3. Martinelli as a W-s should make it.

[frukox]

3 dakika önce, CKBrahMa said:

I see.

1. Putting Martinelli as a W-s, even on his wrong foot could make it.

2. Switching Partey and Ødegaard, with the latest being a Mezz-a to make a threat

3. Martinelli as a W-s should make it.

MEZA is a good choice for Odegaard, I guess. Then, the rest could be:

IWA(pin FB)

         MEZA(Overload HS)

IWBS with Overlap Left (Occupy both HS and Wing)

Now what about the rest of the midfield? You now have a runner in the form of MEZA but who is going to cover the central channel and what role could be used for this and which role can be utilized to help support all of the movement on the left flank? Imagine the build-up play. The F9 will come deep. IFA and IWA push higher up early to be goal threats from wide. MEZA will offer early advanced support to the IWA and be a secondary goal threat centrally like the F9. IWBS will go down the flank when the flank is vacated by IWA. So what now?

 

 

[CKBrahMa]

il y a 20 minutes, frukox a dit :

MEZA is a good choice for Odegaard, I guess. Then, the rest could be:

IWA(pin FB)

         MEZA(Overload HS)

IWBS with Overlap Left (Occupy both HS and Wing)

Now what about the rest of the midfield? You now have a runner in the form of MEZA but who is going to cover the central channel and what role could be used for this and which role can be utilized to help support all of the movement on the left flank? Imagine the build-up play. The F9 will come deep. IFA and IWA push higher up early to be goal threats from wide. MEZA will offer early advanced support to the IWA and be a secondary goal threat centrally like the F9. IWBS will go down the flank when the flank is vacated by IWA. So what now?

 

 

It is a very high risk game plan, as we have 2 players bombing up the field.

Now, to « neutralize » all the movement/keep the things solid behind, I have the BWM (who is still a passing outlet) and my DM-s who, even though he has « hold position » will be a passing outlet.

So, we have 2 players bombing forward, the IWB-s who will hold the width by overlapping or, if it is not the occasion, be at the back of the HS, the F9 coming deep and running from deep, BWM trying to nullify all counter attacks and being a passing outlet, like the DM

[frukox]

19 dakika önce, CKBrahMa said:

It is a very high risk game plan, as we have 2 players bombing up the field.

Now, to « neutralize » all the movement/keep the things solid behind, I have the BWM (who is still a passing outlet) and my DM-s who, even though he has « hold position » will be a passing outlet.

So, we have 2 players bombing forward, the IWB-s who will hold the width by overlapping or, if it is not the occasion, be at the back of the HS, the F9 coming deep and running from deep, BWM trying to nullify all counter attacks and being a passing outlet, like the DM

BWM is a bit of a restricted role. Here a simple CMS is enough accompanied by a disciplined role in the DM strata because your left flank is up there for overloads and you have to keep the ball there if not at least someone is needed back there for covering the left side as you don't want to see your CBs go wide to cover the area and leave the centre vulnerable to counterattacks while supporting overload from behind. So:

                   F9

IWA                          IFA

        MEZA    CMS

                DMS(hold position)

IWBS  BPDD CDD   FBS

                   SKS

Your system is ready for trying:)

Edited December 5, 2022 by frukox

[CKBrahMa]

il y a 59 minutes, frukox a dit :

BWM is a bit of a restricted role. Here a simple CMS is enough accompanied by a disciplined role in the DM strata because your left flank is up there for overloads and you have to keep the ball there if not at least someone is needed back there for covering the left side as you don't want to see your CBs go wide to cover the area and leave the centre vulnerable to counterattacks while supporting overload from behind. So:

                   F9

IWA                          IFA

        MEZA    CMS

                DMS(hold position)

IWBS  BPDD CDD   FBS

                   SKS

Your system is ready for trying:)

Thanks, I will try that. However, several questions 

1. does the CM-s won’t be too much of a magnet that kill all the effect of the overload ?

2. Isn’t the left side « too » attacking now and lacking of ways to switch the ball to Saka ?

3. Does the « focus play down the right » works as I said it does ? (« when we read the TI, it states that the play is going to be more agressive than the usual. My understanding is that, if the teams mentality is Positive, the right side is going to play like it is on Attacking or Very Attacking. My aim is to have my IF-a and Mezz-a on attacking, while the rest of the teams is, at tops, on Positive. When I choose Positive, the right side is on very attacking, which is too much. Furthermore, as I don't have the best players for possession, I don't want them to try something too risky during the overload ;« 

[frukox]

Just now, CKBrahMa said:

Thanks, I will try that. However, several questions 

1. does the CM-s won’t be too much of a magnet that kill all the effect of the overload ?

2. Isn’t the left side « too » attacking now and lacking of ways to switch the ball to Saka ?

3. Does the « focus play down the right » works as I said it does ? (« when we read the TI, it states that the play is going to be more agressive than the usual. My understanding is that, if the teams mentality is Positive, the right side is going to play like it is on Attacking or Very Attacking. My aim is to have my IF-a and Mezz-a on attacking, while the rest of the teams is, at tops, on Positive. When I choose Positive, the right side is on very attacking, which is too much. Furthermore, as I don't have the best players for possession, I don't want them to try something too risky during the overload ;« 

1. No, a CMS is not a ball magnet. He will support potential overloads down that flank by staying central and a good candidate for a switch to the other flank for Saka.

2. No, definitely not. You need all players on that flank to cause other teams to overcommit their right flank and leave the other side vulnerable. Switching the ball to the other side will be easier when space is liberated in the centre for your DMS/CMS.(They need a knack for playmaking)

3. As of FM21, focus down the right and left flank will move your CM/DM/AMs closer to halfspaces to amplify your overloads. This time you may want to tick both because you have two attacking wide players like in my Arteta's Arsenal recreation.

[CKBrahMa]

I'm in 0-0 draw for 2 games in a row, the 2 being away. The same according to the xG graphs, we have decent chance (it's not a lot of small chances).

I have to look that, I don't know what's wrong (especially since the same tactics seems to work in my U21 team)

 

[CKBrahMa]

Here is the current tactic :