FM 23 - Defensive shape vs Defensive line

[desmond91]

Hi everyone,

I'm wondering if the Defensive line option (step up-drop off more) has a different purpose than just setting low or high the defensive line bar in the Defensive shape option.
Does it just move more down up or down the defensive line bar in the defensive shape setting?

Seems logic but I am wondering if there is something else hidden, because otherwise makes non-sense.
It's like if next to the slider of Tempo you can select "Increase tempo" or "decrease tempo". Why add that option if there is already a slider for that purpose?

 

[JIPI1]

Defensive line in the shape determines how high/deep the D-line positions itself.

Defensive line option determines how the D-line behaves when the opposition is attacking you (eg. step up and be proactive in recovering the ball versus being reactive and holding the position to force the opponent to a mistake or turnover).

This is my interpretation. Thoughts?

[desmond91]

1 ora fa, JIPI1 ha scritto:

Defensive line in the shape determines how high/deep the D-line positions itself.

Defensive line option determines how the D-line behaves when the opposition is attacking you (eg. step up and be proactive in recovering the ball versus being reactive and holding the position to force the opponent to a mistake or turnover).

This is my interpretation. Thoughts?

imho but options refer on when the opposition has the ball, confirmed by the fact that are part of the NON POSSESSION section.

[The3points]

46 minutes ago, desmond91 said:

imho but options refer on when the opposition has the ball, confirmed by the fact that are part of the NON POSSESSION section.

That's what he's saying. Defensive line is how high or low your line is out of possesion. Defensive line option is how they behave when the the opposition plays an aggressive vertical pass. It basically asks if you use the offside trap or no.

[Jack Sarahs]

Hi @desmond91Hopefully this helps!


The best way to think of the two options is like this.

 

Defensive line in defensive shape = How high you want your defensive line to be when out of possession?

Defensive line as an team instruction Drop off more / Step up more = How do you want your defensive line to behave?

 

For example if you want to engage high & press high but you have a slower back 4, you may want them to position higher to stay close to the rest of the team and stay compact. But also because they aren't the fastest, the moment the press is beaten or an opposing player has time on the ball with no pressure on it you may want them to start to drop to prevent being beaten in behind.

 

Now in FM23 you can create this by selecting your defensive line to be higher in the team defensive shape to help stay compact and support the high press your team is employing, but now as a behavior in the defensive line team instruction you can select them to " drop off more" to prevent the obvious issue of a long pass in behind,

 

To be clear It's not an additional instruction to make the defensive line to just go higher or lower then the initial selection in team shape. 
 

Hopefully this helps everyone!

[desmond91]

4 ore fa, Jack Sarahs ha scritto:

Hi @desmond91Hopefully this helps!


The best way to think of the two options is like this.

 

Defensive line in defensive shape = How high you want your defensive line to be when out of possession?

Defensive line as an team instruction Drop off more / Step up more = How do you want your defensive line to behave?

 

For example if you want to engage high & press high but you have a slower back 4, you may want them to position higher to stay close to the rest of the team and stay compact. But also because they aren't the fastest, the moment the press is beaten or an opposing player has time on the ball with no pressure on it you may want them to start to drop to prevent being beaten in behind.

 

Now in FM23 you can create this by selecting your defensive line to be higher in the team defensive shape to help stay compact and support the high press your team is employing, but now as a behavior in the defensive line team instruction you can select them to " drop off more" to prevent the obvious issue of a long pass in behind,

 

To be clear It's not an additional instruction to make the defensive line to just go higher or lower then the initial selection in team shape. 
 

Hopefully this helps everyone!

So in a nutshell it's not about the position of the defensive line but about how it reacts to long pass behind it.

Got it, thank you!

[Jack Sarahs]

On 04/11/2022 at 21:13, desmond91 said:

So in a nutshell it's not about the position of the defensive line but about how it reacts to long pass behind it.

Got it, thank you!

 

Not how they react to long balls but a situation like I explained. The opposition team has maintained a couple of passes and now they have a player on the ball with time and no immediate pressure.

 

How do you want your defensive line to react? 

 

Hold their line?
Step up to compact the space leaving space in behind? 
Drop to prevent a ball from getting in behind but leaving space in front ?

[dunk105]

On 04/11/2022 at 16:54, Jack Sarahs said:

Hi @desmond91Hopefully this helps!


The best way to think of the two options is like this.

 

Defensive line in defensive shape = How high you want your defensive line to be when out of possession?

Defensive line as an team instruction Drop off more / Step up more = How do you want your defensive line to behave?

 

For example if you want to engage high & press high but you have a slower back 4, you may want them to position higher to stay close to the rest of the team and stay compact. But also because they aren't the fastest, the moment the press is beaten or an opposing player has time on the ball with no pressure on it you may want them to start to drop to prevent being beaten in behind.

 

Now in FM23 you can create this by selecting your defensive line to be higher in the team defensive shape to help stay compact and support the high press your team is employing, but now as a behavior in the defensive line team instruction you can select them to " drop off more" to prevent the obvious issue of a long pass in behind,

 

To be clear It's not an additional instruction to make the defensive line to just go higher or lower then the initial selection in team shape. 
 

Hopefully this helps everyone!

That helps, although really think defensive width needs to be reintroduced. I like the idea of funnelling but currently two DCs in a pair leave far too much space in-between. A combination of both would be better than leaving it all to funnelling which no matter what you do still leaves this huge gap for players to run through.

[Aoyao]

  

8 hours ago, Rashidi said:

So basically this is how I see it. 
Your formations style comes from your out of possession instruction. This tells your team how to behave when they do not have the ball. In essence it sets your shape. Along with the line of engagement, this defines your zone of compression. In other words it tells your team where you want to the opposition to play the game.

Your defensive line instructions like Step Up More and Drop Deeper tells your block how to behave ie move.

Your choice of formation and roles and duties dictate how attacking and defensive your team will play. A bottom heavy system will be more defensive naturally so players need to attack specific zones and play certain roles and duties to attack certain spaces.  So if you have a wingback and say a striker on attack duty, their focus is to step up and attack first chance they get. And this is where mentality comes in.

When your team is playing on defensive or lower mentalities your attacking and support duties are affected. When you need to defend, attacking duties will try and get back and help you defend.( based on your zone of compression -space between DL and LOE). The more you raise your mentality the more you affect their risk appetite to bust forward. On higher mentalities those same attacking duties may not get back.

Mentality on the lower ranges are producing distinct patterns of play where they obey the zone strictly. Naturally as the game progresses players who carrying yellows or have poor condition may not get back in time. 
 

Are lower mentalities and low blocks the only way to play. No gegenpressing systems are still way too strong and I hope SI raise the injury rate or make conditioning a serious problem for sides that play gegen pressing a whole season.

Here is a post quote from Rashidi.Maybe It could be helpfully for you.