Question on Individual training

[mist]

Hi everyone,

Is there any confirmation (or can anyone from SI confirm?) if you want players to train specific attributes (based on specific prd individual training) you need to put training cards with "Attributes: Individual Roles" in training schedule? Or the individual training is separated from team training (ie. training based on training schedule)?

 

 

 

[04texag]

My understanding is there isn't some mystery separate time slot for individual training. When a team training sessions includes individual roles, then that's when this is occuring, with players each working on their own role. Maybe @Seb Wassell can confirm?

[mist]

22 minutes ago, 04texag said:

My understanding is there isn't some mystery separate time slot for individual training. When a team training sessions includes individual roles, then that's when this is occuring, with players each working on their own role. Maybe @Seb Wassell can confirm?

Thanks @04texag, based on what you wrote, individual training occurs when training card has "Attributes: Individual Roles". I prepared scenarios (Example: midfielder > winger > support, attacking unit - highlighted attributes: crossing, dribbling, first touch, passing, technique, off the ball, work rate, acceleration, agility, pace, stamina):

 

1) To train all of the above attributes (given that we need to have training card with "Attributes: Individual Roles") we can choose training Ground Defence, which has the "Attributes: Individual Roles" for Attacking unity (as secondary focus) - but the priority is 20%, so there is a need to do it more often if we want better (/faster) results (taking  only the training into account , correct me if im wrong here). Example: 3x Ground Defence/Aerial Defence, or the combination of both. In this case, only the attributes  which are dedicated to the specific role should develop (disregard other aspects of the game, which obviously shouldn't be disregarded in real life (game) scenario, but for the purpose of the comparison we need to disregard other aspects).

2) We can choose training which is impacting some/most of attributes like general training  (there is no training card which include all atributes), but in this case there are more attributes included in the training, and as of that, the amount of time  of training on the specific attribute is decreased (so lower impact on specific attribute, but includes much broader range of attributes).  Example: Overall + Physical

3) Specifically target trainings which includes all attributes, for a day of training. Example: Physical + Attacking Direct + Attacking Wings/Attacking Overlap - In this case, why do I bother to put player into individual training, with specific role, if in this case, all of the attributes for that specific role are covered (+ some additional attributes, but less then in scenario 2).

4) Do training with different attributes covered - (example: 3x defending from the front) In this case, as per my understanding,  individual role attributes for our m/w/s shouldn't develop (taking only training into account), which is logical.

 

 

For the 2nd scenario, I need confirmation, if we put player in specific role, does it means that, from overall training, he will train only (/mostly) the attributes "marked" for the chosen role? or he will train all atributes covered in overall training (which will decrease the focus on the attributes for the given role), but I believe the latter one is correct.

 

Coming back to my question-  in order to benefit from individual training for the specific role, do I HAVE to choose scenario #1? Additionally, In the extreme example #4, individual training set up to winger > support, should have no effect (for the chosen individual role training, am I right? The thing is, scenarios #1, #2, and #3 are for the development for that specific attributes (with more or less focus on them).  Maybe the question should be, which of that 3 scenarios is the most benefical for the player development and whole team, as #3 is probably the most benefical for the specific role, #1 for the unit and maybe the team (in terms of attributes), and #2 for team (as for coverage of all attributes + tactical familiarity from Overall Training), Also the #2 and #3 scenarios are more intense comparing to the #1 scenario.

 

This is min-maxing question (and probably slightly overthink it), but really want to know, as player development is probably my favourite part of the game, and training is definitely part of it.  @Seb Wassellcould you please relate to the topic? Also, would like to know what is your opinion on that, @Rashidi. 

 

Thanks, and sorry for the long post.

 

 

 

 

 

[04texag]

There was a thread on the first page yesterday for the FM21 training spreadsheet, I suggest you look that up. As you can plug these modules in for a week and see the total training output per attribute. It's awesome for what you're exploring right now.

 

[mist]

7 hours ago, 04texag said:

There was a thread on the first page yesterday for the FM21 training spreadsheet, I suggest you look that up. As you can plug these modules in for a week and see the total training output per attribute. It's awesome for what you're exploring right now.

 

Thanks @04texag, Is that the thread you mentioned?

 

[mist]

Spreadsheet is great, but as the below quote, there is  "no correlation to Individual Training and how this will impact on the players development in the long run either." (As per post from https://fmathlete.wordpress.com/2019/03/23/fail-to-plan-plan-to-fail-a-planner-tool-for-training/).

My  (general) questions are:

1) what's is benefit of doing specific prd individual training over doing playing position as prd? 

2) how to maximize individual training? Maybe  the question should be: Is individual training affecting the effect of specific attributes in the training?  Example: I give prd midfielder>winger>support, (suppose he is natural/accomplished in that position) and choose overall training - given that most attributes are there, will specific attributes for the chosen prd be affected in greater effect then other atributes from overall training?

 

 

As per training induction:

 

Given the wording above, it should mean, that if I put someone in individual training (specific prd), mostly (/only?)  affected attributes will be the ones related to specific prd, no matter what kind of training is in schedule (i.e. attributes included in prd should be in the training session, but it's obvious).

 

 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2020 by mist
Correction on questions logic

[Seb Wassell]

Individual Role training occurs when it appears in the schedule. Additional Focus is extra-curricular.

[mist]

12 minutes ago, Seb Wassell said:

Individual Role training occurs when it appears in the schedule. Additional Focus is extra-curricular.

@Seb Wassell, Thanks for the confirmation.

 

Also, I've realised that I missed some trainings, i.e att.movement/densive shape/match practice has more priority on specific units and individual role training, and there is a limit per week for that type of trainings.

[mist]

On 01/12/2020 at 14:36, Seb Wassell said:

Individual Role training occurs when it appears in the schedule. Additional Focus is extra-curricular.

@Seb Wassell could you please confirm if, in case of Match Prep sessions, when there is Tactical Familiarity "Position/Role/Duty" included in training session it also affecting individual training  (more specifically,  specific attributes based on specific prd) as in sessions with "Attributes: Individual Roles" or it just affecting P/R/D tactical familiarity bar?

[Rashidi]

@Seb Wassell Can correct me if I am wrong.

Basically we have sessions in a week that is can be done as one team or split into units. Some sessions have no direct impact on individual roles but on specific attributes that are tailored for improvement based on the session chosen. Aerial Defence for example involves the team breaking up into units one attacking one defending and the keeper. The primary focus for the coaches is the defending unit. So the impact there would be heavier, i think its 60%. In a manner of speaking the coaches focus more on the defensive unit than the attacking unit whose impact will be on individual roles at about 20% impact.

There is one session that impacts 100% on individual roles and that is match practice, so here the focus is on their individual roles.

Match prep activities help with tactical familiarity for position/role and duty. Basically this covers their general ability at doing the job you want within the tactic you have created and it also impacts on the attributes for the roles.

Defensive Shape for example impacts on giving you a small bonus for an upcoming match for defensive positioning and marking. It also improves the tactical familiarity of the players with the system, it improves their understanding as a unit  and works on improving the individual roles of a player.

It's all in the cards.

[mist]

@Rashidi, let me rephrase the question: 

 "Attributes: Individual Roles" is affecting development of the player attributes, specific to the chosen PRD in individual training.

"Tactical Familiarity: Position/Role/Duty" is affecting his Position/Role/Duty bar in Tactical Familiarity.

 

The question is if the  "Tactical Familiarity: Position/Role/Duty" part in the training session has similar impact as  "Attributes: Individual Roles" in terms of development of player attributes in the long run (increase/decrease of value in the attribute)? I believe it's not, as what will happen if player has full bar in Tactical Familiarity: Position/Role/Duty....it shouldn't improve more that 100% (ie. bar totally filled).

 

For example, in Teamwork and Match Tactics, there is no  "Attributes: Individual Roles", only "Tactical Familiarity: Position/Role/Duty", as per my understanding, both should increase only Teamwork, and Decisions (in case of Match Tactics) attributes.

 

In case of Match Practice, Attacking Movement and Defensive Shape have both "Attributes: Individual Roles" and "Tactical Familiarity: Position/Role/Duty" so it's logical that that trainings affect both attributes (As of long term development) and their familiarity of the prd.

 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2020 by mist

[Rashidi]

@mistThe tactical familiarity bar is just that...it shows how familiar a player is within a tactical system, it does not tell you how far along the player has come in terms of attributes in fulfilling that role. 

Personally I am happy when a player is fluid in everything and accomplished in PRD which is always enough