backpackant Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Was it 2002 when Spurs were 4-0 up at halftime against Man U, a match that ended, wait for it... Spurs 4-5 ManU Some guy bet his life savings at half time that Spurs would win. He got odds of 1/100 but he'd have made £20k if he won. Was sure whether to laugh or laugh my a** off. Seem to remember QPR winning 5-0 at half time around the same time and ending up with a 5-5 draw. I forget who against. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullybeef Posted March 13, 2008 Author Share Posted March 13, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by backpackant: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I was winning 6-0 after 40 minutes and the opposition came back and the game ended 6-5. Such things dont happen IRL and couldnt happen to my team but the AI manages to do so. Dont say its my tactics because apart from that match I conceded about 10 goals all season and I was also undefeated in the league and won every competition I was in. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> It happens. If you changed your tactics at half time (as the AI team surely did) you would not have conceded 5. When I'm leading comfortably at half-time I always switch to a slower passing tempo for the second half with counter-attacking ticked. All these "AI Cheats" threads can be answered with "It's your tactics". Sorry, conspiracy chaps, but the number of people who have countered these issues by either tweaking their own tactics or visiting the tactics forum for advice show just how obviously wrong these comments are (that's all "cheating" comments, not just the ones quoted here). Key advice: watch the match in split-screen so you can see the opposition's formations. When it piles forward or goes defensive, you KNOW to adjust your own, ie, when the AI goes 424 you go ultra defensive, and deep etc, and when a 1-0 up AI goes to a defensive formation, you know you need to change (I usually go short passing, attack-minded... works usually due to possession football and attacking mentality). More advice: in the tactics forum. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> I think ppl will always go back to a certain tactic to solve or counter the AI’s change of approach, especially if the AI is losing. I think ppls ‘gripes’ about the unrealism of the AI turning the score goals toggle to ‘on’ is feasible. This ability for the computer teams to almost know exactly what tactic to play and at what time to play it does make us humans feel we’re relying more on hope than management. If we don’t change our tactics in time and lose in unlikely circumstances, ppl quite rightly use the forum for a ‘whinge’. This is within their rights for buying the game in the first place. But the lack of empathy for the AI’s ability to know what will happen when it has change something and the fact us mere mortals do have a lack of understanding is why ppl have finally began coming out (excuse the euphemism) and having a good old moan. The difficultly of converting realism into a computer game is just and the games sits back and lets the more experienced players who understand a little more about the ambiguity of the games application make excuses up for its lack of consistency. Sure we can worked it in our favour when we get to grips with it but the there should be no wrong and right answer with football and FM8.0.2 is making me personally feel like there is. The reason I love the game is the transfer system not the game play, but now I am beginning to feel it doesn’t matter how good my players attributes say they are, because it I get something slightly wrong with my tactics on the day, then it’s a losers medal for me. But when my inferior team goes out against the Barcelona’s of the world then (from my hours of testing) only my assistant manager will get a decent result. I come from the days of LMA manager on the PS2 and the 2003 version was a lot more realistic than FM even though there was little content. At least if the attributes described a player to have excellent pace, it would show this to be true on the match engine and the advantage would be yours. With FM, unfortunately and more unrealistically if you have a better player based on what the game tells you not what you think, it doesn’t necessary give you an advantage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomis07 Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bullybeef: I come from the days of LMA manager on the PS2 and the 2003 version was a lot more realistic than FM even though there was little content. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> This says it all and surely is reason enough to close this ridiculous thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullybeef Posted March 13, 2008 Author Share Posted March 13, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nomis07: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bullybeef: I come from the days of LMA manager on the PS2 and the 2003 version was a lot more realistic than FM even though there was little content. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> This says it all and surely is reason enough to close this ridiculous thread. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Again you quoted the missed point. On LMA, if a player was quick, he was quick. It wasn’t an average rating on his ability to run fast. There was no ambiguity at all. When you moved a slider, you could see it had an effect on the pitch. Is that too much to ask for a little truth. Either FM’s instruction manual needs to explain that each players attribute is what it says it is or it is an average numerical attribute or maybe to find another way to display a players abilities. If you’re happy £30 for something that begs to differ from its premise than that’s you folly, I’m afraid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomis07 Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Sorry but you're just plain wrong, and I would have thought that you would have taken the hint from a majority of other contributors to this thread that you are in a minority in this view point. There is no ambiguity in the game, it is perfectly relaible and has been so for years, hence it's place at the top of the selling charts each year and it's worldwide acclaim. LMA manager is a terrible imitation of football and to be frank the fact you like it enforces the belief that you don't know what you are talking about in relation to FM. I mentioned stats being stabs in the dark earlier but I can genuinely say that I think that less than 1% of contributors to this forum would actually agree with you that LMA is a better replication of real football than FM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest psword Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nomis07: Is that any more or any less unrealistic than being beaten by a team playing 4-2-4? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> I don't feel the "problem" is what tactic the AI uses or when, since it can be controlled and countered... it's the sudden change for the better of the opposition players abilities (or is my team being affected by the dreaded Withering Curse ?) that sometimes spoils the fun. Some randomness in the attribute check routines is fine, but when under certain circumstances (most often during the last 10 mins when losing 1-0 or 2-0) a pace 8 FC outruns your pace 18 DC or a jump 6 AM outjumps your jump 19 DC nine times out of ten, well this feels slightly wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Equium Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DS: I was winning 6-0 after 40 minutes and the opposition came back and the game ended 6-5. Such things dont happen IRL and couldnt happen to my team but the AI manages to do so. Dont say its my tactics because apart from that match I conceded about 10 goals all season and I was also undefeated in the league and won every competition I was in. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> If you can get 6 goals in 40 minutes, surely they can get 5 in 60 minutes? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnerfan Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 A sudden change in tactics to something much more aggressive, without a countering move from the other team, will often make players look better than they are. You've never seen this IRL? You've never seen a team suddenly look unbeatable, or score an incredible goal? There are those who would agree. But not against them. In FM. Today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullybeef Posted March 13, 2008 Author Share Posted March 13, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nomis07: Sorry but you're just plain wrong, and I would have thought that you would have taken the hint from a majority of other contributors to this thread that you are in a minority in this view point. There is no ambiguity in the game, it is perfectly relaible and has been so for years, hence it's place at the top of the selling charts each year and it's worldwide acclaim. LMA manager is a terrible imitation of football and to be frank the fact you like it enforces the belief that you don't know what you are talking about in relation to FM. I mentioned stats being stabs in the dark earlier but I can genuinely say that I think that less than 1% of contributors to this forum would actually agree with you that LMA is a better replication of real football than FM. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Hope I haven't touched a nerve?? Could I ask you, based on FM’s premise what rating would you give Mickey Owens Pace/Acceleration, Height and jumping ability?? Now don’t peek, I’ll know if you do. Oh and if FM doesn’t have any ambiguities at all, why is it one of the most used word on the forum? (You do know what it means, don’t you??) Ambiguity/ambiguities 1. doubt about meaning: a situation in which something can be understood in more than one way and it is not clear which meaning is intended Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullybeef Posted March 13, 2008 Author Share Posted March 13, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Ambiguity/ambiguities 1. doubt about meaning: a situation in which something can be understood in more than one way and it is not clear which meaning is intended </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Could anyone else please explain to me if this doesn’t accurately define FM. It adds to the way it pulls you in to learn more and how incredibly addictive it is, no matter how peeved you can get with it. All responses welcome… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden28 Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 My wife actually starts shaking her head and then leaves the room when she knows I'm going to start playing FM as she realises that I'm going to become a complete twat when I start losing games. I've tried to recognise the signs and be the level headed patient man I usually am whilst playing but FM has the inate ability to turn me into a nutter. It's the Stella of computer games. Writing this I can't believe i'm admitting that a computer game can actually alter my mood for the worse. But it does. I need help Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullybeef Posted March 13, 2008 Author Share Posted March 13, 2008 tasct<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Golden28: My wife actually starts shaking her head and then leaves the room when she knows I'm going to start playing FM as she realises that I'm going to become a complete twat when I start losing games. I've tried to recognise the signs and be the level headed patient man I usually am whilst playing but FM has the inate ability to turn me into a nutter. It's the Stella of computer games. Writing this I can't believe i'm admitting that a computer game can actually alter my mood for the worse. But it does. I need help </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Fantastic post My Mrs wants a girls night out with your wife whilst we’re on FM throwing teacups around the room. Certainly the Stella of computer games. Or as I use to call it ‘open a can of Whoop a$s’ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden28 Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Fantastic post Big Grin Thumbs Up My Mrs wants a girls night out with your wife whilst we’re on FM throwing teacups around the room. Certainly the Stella of computer games. Or as I use to call it ‘open a can of Whoop a$s’ Wink </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Ah yes. The girls night out. The only time I truly come out of my mild mannered shell and become the ultimate lunatic that FM seems to coax out with such an apathetic disregard for doors, walls and furniture in any sort of close proximity to me. Sometime I have even hit myself for letting in that inevitable last minute goal. When the wife asks about the bruising I blame it on walking into a door. Little does she know that FM beats me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnerfan Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Ever find yourself reflexively kicking the desk in reaction to that sudden shot on goal? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden28 Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Too often to admit too. I actually jump up and punch the air in the big games when we score a late winner. Notice I said 'we' God help me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullybeef Posted March 13, 2008 Author Share Posted March 13, 2008 It is the profanities with me, the neighbours must think I killing the wife!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnerfan Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 I usually manage to keep that to myself. Every once in a while, I'll hear my wife say, "What??" and I know I have to exercise more self control. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnerfan Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 The worse is when we're out to dinner somewhere, and I realize that she's just said something to me across the table and I've missed it because I'm still trying to decide between Rice and O'Boyle for the big one against Shelbourne next match. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr_Man5 Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 This is how I see it… I used to be in your position Bullybeef; I would play countless games with all different teams (not saying you have) and then certain things would happen in said games which, at the time, seemed inexplicable and definitely added to the galling feeling off defeat. ESPECIALLY when not only did the result seem totally unrealistic due to goings on during matches, but also because when things started to go tits-up the one man that EVERY manager IRL relies on, the assistant manager, remained as vague and silent as he has always been. This is the one part of the game that need a massive overhaul; tactical feedback from the man that matters is non-existent and therefore this part of the game is wholly unrealistic. It would be lovely if the following scenario were to unfold during a game of FM: (I’m going to simplify this into the most basic terms, for clarity, it could be as complex as needs be) Playing at home, winning a tight match, possibly a match which is important in the title race. Score is 1-0 and the AI make a tactical switch to try grab a goal. Now the player never notices this switch, but his assistant manager is genuinely as good as his in-game stats would suggest so he tells the player that it may be wise to pull the defensive line back a bit and stop the full-backs from making so many forward runs as we’re being overwhelmed. In it’s most basic terms, this is how the Assistant Manager should work on FM, but it doesn’t, he is a completely non-existent name on a page, and it frustrates the hell out of me. What is actually more likely to happen in the above scenario is that due to not reacting to the AI switch we realistically concede a goal or two, but rather than them being “Good†goals and well built-up, the game makes our idiotic players appear to “Gift†the opposition the goals by daft back-passes and “Missed interceptions†so the end result is a realistic 1-2 reverse, but with two very unrealistic, or at least highly unlikely goals, which adds to the infuriating nature of it all. What I’m saying here is that so many people come on to the forums saying the game cheats because things happen and there is no rational explanation for it, FM goes about communicating things (like tactical flaws) in a very odd way. We really do deserve to have an Assistant Manager who does more than say “You should look to offload him as soon as possible†occasionally, and then who also goes missing during match days. My current Assistant Manager has a Tactical Knowledge attribute of 20 as well as a Tactical coaching attribute of 19, he also speaks English and gets paid £22,000 PER WEEK!!! He doesn’t deserve it. Not one penny. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullybeef Posted March 13, 2008 Author Share Posted March 13, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Starr_Man5: This is how I see it… I used to be in your position Bullybeef; I would play countless games with all different teams (not saying you have) and then certain things would happen in said games which, at the time, seemed inexplicable and definitely added to the galling feeling off defeat. ESPECIALLY when not only did the result seem totally unrealistic due to goings on during matches, but also because when things started to go tits-up the one man that EVERY manager IRL relies on, the assistant manager, remained as vague and silent as he has always been. This is the one part of the game that need a massive overhaul; tactical feedback from the man that matters is non-existent and therefore this part of the game is wholly unrealistic. It would be lovely if the following scenario were to unfold during a game of FM: (I’m going to simplify this into the most basic terms, for clarity, it could be as complex as needs be) Playing at home, winning a tight match, possibly a match which is important in the title race. Score is 1-0 and the AI make a tactical switch to try grab a goal. Now the player never notices this switch, but his assistant manager is genuinely as good as his in-game stats would suggest so he tells the player that it may be wise to pull the defensive line back a bit and stop the full-backs from making so many forward runs as we’re being overwhelmed. In it’s most basic terms, this is how the Assistant Manager should work on FM, but it doesn’t, he is a completely non-existent name on a page, and it frustrates the hell out of me. What is actually more likely to happen in the above scenario is that due to not reacting to the AI switch we realistically concede a goal or two, but rather than them being “Good†goals and well built-up, the game makes our idiotic players appear to “Gift†the opposition the goals by daft back-passes and “Missed interceptions†so the end result is a realistic 1-2 reverse, but with two very unrealistic, or at least highly unlikely goals, which adds to the infuriating nature of it all. What I’m saying here is that so many people come on to the forums saying the game cheats because things happen and there is no rational explanation for it, FM goes about communicating things (like tactical flaws) in a very odd way. We really do deserve to have an Assistant Manager who does more than say “You should look to offload him as soon as possible†occasionally, and then who also goes missing during match days. My current Assistant Manager has a Tactical Knowledge attribute of 20 as well as a Tactical coaching attribute of 19, he also speaks English and gets paid £22,000 PER WEEK!!! He doesn’t deserve it. Not one penny. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Funny you say this Star man. Please use the link to the following thread I also started. Give it your backing and if you know of any mods on here maybe you can let them know. It is something that is desperately need on FM09. Cheers: http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/521102691/m/4302052783 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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