Attributes short-circuit?

[RBKalle]

This thought had been in the back of my head me for years already, but all the in-depth analysis we've seen lately in here finally helped me realize...

Aren't some of the player attributes creating more problems than they actually solve? Or are some of them even redundant?

I mean, while they all do help recreate rather life-like versions of real players ON PAPER, the reality of the game-world, and of the ME, is much less fancy and appealing. It's been known and, for whatever reason, accepted that AI can't get Messi and Ronaldo to be as effective as they are in real life, while crappier players can bang in goals and assists for fun.
Also, some roles and some types of players are quite underpowered or overpowered, depending on the ME build.

But those are "just" tactical issues... What I'm trying to focus here is even more basic stuff...

What's the point of all the Mental attributes if some of the ME "quirks" will make very intelligent and hardworking players shoot on goal from 30 yards out with no angle? Or solid defenders failing to close down or mark an opponent whereas anyone who has played amateur football would know what to do and where to be to prevent, say, a winger being alone in acres of space deep down the opposite flank?

Or players completely unable to hit the goal in one-on-ones, or failing to spot a better-placed teammate in the open.

Conversely, absolutely mediocre players will pull off impressive first-touch football all the way to the final third, or will score awesome screamers despite Long Shots 7...

And the list could go on and on, but I guess you've caught my drift already.

 

So: what's the point of having so many attributes when the ME is clearly struggling to put all those details to fruition in a coherent, realistic way to actually give you the feel Player A is BETTER than Player B becuase of specific strength, and not only because his CA is higher (or, sigh, because his few "pros" are all the rage in the current ME)

Wouldn't it be better to group some of the similar attributes together, both under the hood and in the UI, to make them count MORE? Then, when/if the ME will have reached a good level of realism and consistency with the existing attributes, it'll be time to throw in some extra attributes.

[mack4ever]

I agree with you to a certain extent but one thing I completely disagree with is the fact that you seem to be saying that players with low attributes should be incapable of certain things.

I play for my local Sunday league team. To be perfectly honest we're one of the worst teams in a pretty terrible division and I am at best about our 4th best central midfielder.

I can think of four or five goals we have scored so far this season where there have been a dozen or more first time passes in the buildup, goals where we've pinged the ball around quickly & accurately to work a chance. I've also personally scored two goals from more than 25 yards out, both of which nestled perfectly in the top corner. Quite frankly if I were on FM however my long shots attribute would probably be a 3 at best.

Poor attributes don't make it impossible for somebody to do something impressive, just makes it less likely.

[RBKalle]

19 minuti fa, mack4ever ha scritto:

Poor attributes don't make it impossible for somebody to do something impressive, just makes it less likely.

Fair enough, but your example still relates to teams around the same level... So in FM terms, even though your Long Shots attribute is 3 and other key attributes for scoring would be in the <5 range, you're facing players whose best attributes are still in the single-digits.

However while facing a semi-pro or a pro side, or even playing FOR one, you'd probably have a hard time doing, well, anything, due to the difference in overall quality.

In FM this isn't reflected so well IMO, especially at the highest level, where subpar players can still overperform quite regularly. A Championship side shouldn't be able to play circles around your EPL defenders while your decent EPL striker can't hit a barn door even though he's facing Fatty McPotbelly instead of David De Gea etc...

I see attributes are an indicator of how well/often a player can do something well, but I maintain there isn't enough difference even when the mismatch is clear. Not to mention how attributes overlap and conflict with eachother.

[*losestonon-league*]

37 minutes ago, RBKalle said:

Fair enough, but your example still relates to teams around the same level... So in FM terms, even though your Long Shots attribute is 3 and other key attributes for scoring would be in the <5 range, you're facing players whose best attributes are still in the single-digits.

However while facing a semi-pro or a pro side, or even playing FOR one, you'd probably have a hard time doing, well, anything, due to the difference in overall quality.

In FM this isn't reflected so well IMO, especially at the highest level, where subpar players can still overperform quite regularly. A Championship side shouldn't be able to play circles around your EPL defenders while your decent EPL striker can't hit a barn door even though he's facing Fatty McPotbelly instead of David De Gea etc...

I see attributes are an indicator of how well/often a player can do something well, but I maintain there isn't enough difference even when the mismatch is clear. Not to mention how attributes overlap and conflict with eachother.

Acctually FattyMcPotbelly is the best goalkeeper