Tactical Help needed

[jc577]

I'm playing as Man United, tried various different formations (4231, 4141, 433) and we've really struggled to create good chances on a consistent basis, no matter what formation I use. This is my current tactic:

 

What I'm trying to do is create quality chances, i'm not overly concerned with the quantity as long as we take them when they come our way. The WM-a (with pi's of cut inside with ball, dribble more & roam from position) is designed to be the main goalscorer. I've asked the WP to play more direct and risky passes so he switches the ball over to the left, seeking out the WM's runs from deep. The CM-a next to him is meant to provide support, committing central defenders to him and slipping through balls to the WM. On occasion our play has been pleasing, but on the whole it really is dire, and i'm fed up of constant long-shots. I've tried several different things but I just can't get it to click, and I actually play much better football with lower-mid table premier league sides. Last game against Burnley we had 18 shots, 12 were long shots, 1 half chances and 0 CCC's. Watched the game on full and could not figure out how to make us play any better. Running out of ideas.. some advice would be greatly appreciated.

[herne79]

Does Pogba still have the shoots from distance (or whatever it's called) PPM?  If he does and as a CM(A) that won't help your long shots tally.

So, you want to create quality chances, but how exactly have you told your players to do that?  None of your TIs encourage it.  Neither does your mentality.  As you drop down through the mentalities from Overload to Contain, your tempo gets progressively lower.  And your build up play amongst your forward players becomes progressively more cautious.

Further, you've selected the Play out Of Defence TI.  But you have a ball playing defender who is going to do what?  (Check his PIs).  You also have a DLP at DM which might confuse things even more.  And then everybody will look to focus play to the right flank at your wide playmaker who you say will look to make cross field passes to the opposite flank, but does he have that as a PPM?  If all you've done is told him to play more direct / risky passes, then that's what he'll do - he'll play more direct towards goal.  At which point your midfield had better get their skates on to get up in support of your lone striker otherwise he'll receive the ball and either get tackled or - you guessed it - take a long shot.

I'm also unsure about asking such a deep formation to close down more (if it works then no worries) and asking a lone striker to try to mark the entire opposition back line in order to prevent short goalkeeper distribution.

Apart from the BPD/DLP/WP combo, roles and duties seem ok, but if you want to play for quality of chances rather than quantity you'll need to add in some TIs and/or change mentality, and consider what your WP is up to.

[Newkid]

A couple of quick observations:

Rashford doesn’t really suit the DLP role, and is very isolated. I imagine not much is sticking when it’s played into him. 

I think if you’re looking for your WM-A to be the main goal threat he needs to be starting further up the pitch. I’d have him as AML, with a Inverted Winger role, and the FB on attack to support him wider. 

Also, Pogba is too far back to be picking the ball up and playing short through balls. I’d play a formation where he is potentially at AMC. 

[jc577]

21 minutes ago, herne79 said:

Does Pogba still have the shoots from distance (or whatever it's called) PPM?  If he does and as a CM(A) that won't help your long shots tally.

So, you want to create quality chances, but how exactly have you told your players to do that?  None of your TIs encourage it.  Neither does your mentality.  As you drop down through the mentalities from Overload to Contain, your tempo gets progressively lower.  And your build up play amongst your forward players becomes progressively more cautious.

Further, you've selected the Play out Of Defence TI.  But you have a ball playing defender who is going to do what?  (Check his PIs).  You also have a DLP at DM which might confuse things even more.  And then everybody will look to focus play to the right flank at your wide playmaker who you say will look to make cross field passes to the opposite flank, but does he have that as a PPM?  If all you've done is told him to play more direct / risky passes, then that's what he'll do - he'll play more direct towards goal.  At which point your midfield had better get their skates on to get up in support of your lone striker otherwise he'll receive the ball and either get tackled or - you guessed it - take a long shot.

I'm also unsure about asking such a deep formation to close down more (if it works then no worries) and asking a lone striker to try to mark the entire opposition back line in order to prevent short goalkeeper distribution.

Apart from the BPD/DLP/WP combo, roles and duties seem ok, but if you want to play for quality of chances rather than quantity you'll need to add in some TIs and/or change mentality, and consider what your WP is up to.

Unfortunately he does, i've tried unlearning it but to no avail. I think Pogba is going to shoot a lot no matter what role I give him, just accept it.

Well I thought Standard was a pretty balanced if not a bit passive mentality; fairly low tempo & closing down etc. I want to create quality chances but I don't want to be passive, which is why I didn't add lower tempo to what I consider to be a fairly low tempo naturally, or am I wrong in thinking this?

I can see how some of the roles selected can cause a bit of confusion. I know using Play out of Defence and using a BPD are somewhat contradictory, but I used this role so he can launch a through ball from deep on occasion, 90% of the time he plays it short. i've currently got Mata learning that PPM, but I have seen him play a few cross field balls already.. but i am also seeing my midfield being unable to catch up with play and taking long shots as a consequence, as you suggested. 

Yeah closing down more + deep formation doesn't really work, I was aiming to win the ball back around the halfway line but teams just play around us (Burnley had 61% possession against us ). 

Thinking of adding lower tempo, but reluctant to use WBIB as if roles/duties are set up correctly then I don't think it's a necessary instruction. My only reservation is that my players are more suited to a high tempo game rather than a pass/move style, but I feel like I have to play this way as almost every team I come up against is playing in a deep block 4-1-4-1 so there's no use trying to pick a lock with a hammer.

[jc577]

37 minutes ago, Newkid said:

A couple of quick observations:

Rashford doesn’t really suit the DLP role, and is very isolated. I imagine not much is sticking when it’s played into him. 

I think if you’re looking for your WM-A to be the main goal threat he needs to be starting further up the pitch. I’d have him as AML, with a Inverted Winger role, and the FB on attack to support him wider. 

Also, Pogba is too far back to be picking the ball up and playing short through balls. I’d play a formation where he is potentially at AMC. 

Any player can play any role, they'll just interpret it differently. I usually play Lukaku there anyway but he's been injured of late. A WM-a can be just as effective as an IF, they just start from a deep position which can help as they're more difficult to pick up. 

[Newkid]

5 hours ago, jc577 said:

Any player can play any role, they'll just interpret it differently. I usually play Lukaku there anyway but he's been injured of late. A WM-a can be just as effective as an IF, they just start from a deep position which can help as they're more difficult to pick up. 

You’re totally right in regards to roles generally, but in this instance the DLF needs to be someone who can hold the ball up and wait for support, which Rashford isn’t as suited to as Lukaku. 

And again, you’re right about the WM-A being a useful role in making runs from deep, but in this context judging by the screenshot there seems to be a big void between midfield and attack, and I’d suggest moving someone closer to Rashford so they get to him quicker when he holds the ball up.

I’d move Martial and Pogba higher up personally and switch to Lukaku but I know there are many ways to skin a cat!