Closing down the ball

[Gyoza Gombastique]

Hi all, having lots of frustration and hoping you experienced guys can help

I'm playing Northampton in League two and consistently underperforming (I do pretty well when I play in the top leagues, doing a league-cup double in my first season with Liverpool, but I've been performing horribly in my journeyman save). One big issue for me is how little the players try to close down the ball - allow me to explain.

I play a 4-2-3-1, switch between standard/control and default/press more depending on the opposition, which means my d-line is reasonably high (somewhere between the middle of the slider and 2-3 notches into 'push up'). However, even with my players on 'press more', I encounter the following situations quite often:

- Set-piece is cleared out of opposition defence. One of my CMs is nearest to the ball and has the chance to take a couple of steps forward and recycle possession, but instead runs back into defence, allowing an opponent to gain the loose ball. However, once the opponent gains the ball, my player immediately moves to close him down.

- 50-50 ball (or even 70-30 in my favor). My player backs off the ball, and only moves forward once the opponent gains control of it.

- Opposing keeper hits the goal kick long and high. No one in my team even tries to jostle the intended target to win the header.

I assume this is because 'closing down' settings apply to opposing players and not loose balls, but this is completely ridiculous. Why would a player wait for his opponent to get the ball and THEN close him down if he is in a perfect position to just intercept the pass or challenge for the 50-50? I have two explanations for this:

One: it's a shortcoming in the system - there is no slider that controls how aggressively your players chase down 50-50s and loose balls. If so, how would you counteract this?

Two: In the lower leagues, the players have lower mental stats and thus make poorer decisions with regards to which balls to chase and which to leave. If this is the case, have any of you managed to build a successful high-pressing high-d-line tactic in the lower leagues, and did you run into this problem at some point? Were you able to resolve it?

Thanks!

[Fabian Jonsson]

Hi all, having lots of frustration and hoping you experienced guys can help

I'm playing Northampton in League two and consistently underperforming (I do pretty well when I play in the top leagues, doing a league-cup double in my first season with Liverpool, but I've been performing horribly in my journeyman save). One big issue for me is how little the players try to close down the ball - allow me to explain.

I play a 4-2-3-1, switch between standard/control and default/press more depending on the opposition, which means my d-line is reasonably high (somewhere between the middle of the slider and 2-3 notches into 'push up'). However, even with my players on 'press more', I encounter the following situations quite often:

- Set-piece is cleared out of opposition defence. One of my CMs is nearest to the ball and has the chance to take a couple of steps forward and recycle possession, but instead runs back into defence, allowing an opponent to gain the loose ball. However, once the opponent gains the ball, my player immediately moves to close him down.

- 50-50 ball (or even 70-30 in my favor). My player backs off the ball, and only moves forward once the opponent gains control of it.

- Opposing keeper hits the goal kick long and high. No one in my team even tries to jostle the intended target to win the header.

I assume this is because 'closing down' settings apply to opposing players and not loose balls, but this is completely ridiculous. Why would a player wait for his opponent to get the ball and THEN close him down if he is in a perfect position to just intercept the pass or challenge for the 50-50? I have two explanations for this:

One: it's a shortcoming in the system - there is no slider that controls how aggressively your players chase down 50-50s and loose balls. If so, how would you counteract this?

Two: In the lower leagues, the players have lower mental stats and thus make poorer decisions with regards to which balls to chase and which to leave. If this is the case, have any of you managed to build a successful high-pressing high-d-line tactic in the lower leagues, and did you run into this problem at some point? Were you able to resolve it?

Thanks!

Without anything but my own experience and "feel for the game" to go by, I'd say it's down to mental stats. My suggestions would be to either field one or two more covering players who stay goalside of the opponenst and help to repair the misstakes, or sign cheap and overpowered players for free from abroad (see Heathxxx's stickied thread on lower-league management).

[thomit]

No, it's just something they haven't managed to get right in the ME yet. The ME is full of these little (or big) flaws - I guess either because mechanics doesn't allow it, or because fixing it would lead to another and even more serious flaw.

Players are slow to close down loose balls all over the pitch, standing and waiting for the ball to reach them, instead of moving towards it so that they get there sooner than the opposition. Typical ME flaw.

The good news is; ME flaws or bugs are the same for everyone, including the computer managed teams.

This was one of the first things we were taught when we were kids: Don't stand and wait for the ball to reach you; go and meet it. So it looks pretty bad when this happens all the time in FM.

[Fabian Jonsson]

No, it's just something they haven't managed to get right in the ME yet. The ME is full of these little (or big) flaws - I guess either because mechanics doesn't allow it, or because fixing it would lead to another and even more serious flaw.

Players are slow to close down loose balls all over the pitch, standing and waiting for the ball to reach them, instead of moving towards it so that they get there sooner than the opposition. Typical ME flaw.

The good news is; ME flaws or bugs are the same for everyone, including the computer managed teams.

This was one of the first things we were taught when we were kids: Don't stand and wait for the ball to reach you; go and meet it. So it looks pretty bad when this happens all the time in FM.

I don't really agree to be honest. Yes, some of the misstakes are a bit too common and exaggerated for my taste, but I don't agree that they are impossible to get rid of. If you have mentally strong, focused, clever players, you'll see a lot less of that kind of stuff. For example, the "corner headed away, recycled, passed back to the corner taker still in an offside position" thing is something I hardly ever see anymore, now that I've build a strong squad.

[thomit]

And I think you are wrong. I see these ME flaws all the time, and I have only world class players in my team - that have won the PL 3 times in a row. I still see these world class players close down the ball too slow very often, and also this corner thing. No my friend, it's a ME flaw. And/or a graphic bug ... maybe it's this way that the 3d graphics tells you that the player in reality was too far away to reach the ball before the opponent ... I'm not sure. But the fact remain, I see it happen all the time. And it looks ridiculous.

[Gyoza Gombastique]

Thanks for the input. It's strange, but decreasing the closing down and setting my team instructions to stand off more seems to have helped. We still back off loose balls, but we're usually in a better position to challenge the player once he receives it.

[Fabian Jonsson]

And I think you are wrong. I see these ME flaws all the time, and I have only world class players in my team - that have won the PL 3 times in a row. I still see these world class players close down the ball too slow very often, and also this corner thing. No my friend, it's a ME flaw. And/or a graphic bug ... maybe it's this way that the 3d graphics tells you that the player in reality was too far away to reach the ball before the opponent ... I'm not sure. But the fact remain, I see it happen all the time. And it looks ridiculous.

1) "I see these ME flaws all the time" ==> "No my friend, it's a ME flaw."

2) "maybe it's this way that the 3d graphics tells you that the player in reality was too far away to reach the ball before the opponent"

I think you are right the second time.

[thomit]

Whatever, it's not important - it's visually conceived as if something is wrong with the way the ME is programmed, so if it really is a ME flaw, a graphical flaw, or a combination of the two ... it doesn't really matter, but it's there, and it needs fixing. And I think the SI people that are working on the ME or 3D graphics is very aware of it. But I remember noticing the same thing when FM (or CM) was only 2d, so that leads me to think that it's a ME bug that is fundementally difficult to fix. Maybe it's one of the stubborn bugs that has brought on the "work in progress" complete re-working of the ME that we have heard about.

[Tyballs]

Without knowing how your mentality is set up I would suspect that it is set to low. Low mentality effects the risk taking hence the falling back behavior instead og aggresively closing down.

[Gyoza Gombastique]

Actually I'm set up pretty attacking, high closing down and most of my team is on the default mentality that comes with the 'control' instruction. I have a CB on stopper duty too, so he has a higher mentality than average. The problem is that they take my 'closing down' instructions to mean 'close down the player in possession' rather than 'chase the ball', leading to some comical situations where my player politely steps aside to let a through-ball get to their opposite number, and then suddenly sprint to challenge them after the ball arrives at their feet.

[thomit]

The closing down settings are meant to be about the closing down of the opponent with the ball. It's just that closing down of the free ball doesn't work that well. No "settings" are needed for the latter - that is common sense, and something that every footballer does automatically. There is absolutely no need to have a "don't close down a loose ball" setting, is it? As I said, it's one of the first thing you learn, and there's absolutely no advantage to not close down a ball. That would only lead to you losing it to the other team.

[Gyoza Gombastique]

I see, I suppose that makes sense. I actually tried watching a game as unbiased-ly as possible (imagining I was managing the other team) and I'm happy to report that it does seem to happen to AI teams as well

On a slightly-related note, if I find that opposing wingers are able to sneak around my fullbacks often, should I set my fullbacks to man-mark?

[Fabian Jonsson]

On a slightly-related note, if I find that opposing wingers are able to sneak around my fullbacks often, should I set my fullbacks to man-mark?

Yeah, I have that problem too. Again, this is something I see much more of when I manage lower tier teams, but yeah, it's tricky to get right. I too would like some advice on this.

[thomit]

If you set your fullbacks to man mark wingers, they can be dragged out very wide, leaving huge gaps in central defense. Not very wise, in my opinion. Actually, you may see that the fullbacks have more control over the opponent winger if you set them to mark zonal, and not tightly. It will also depend on your d-line, of course - maybe yours is too high or too low. And lastly, it depends on your players' skill, and the combined skill of all your defenders to keep a straight offside line.