How to play ams to create "space"

[Neil Train]

hi, i'm crap at this "space" thing. i'm experimenting a little as i want to hit the ground running in precisely 3 weeks time (and it's gonna be a loooong 3 weeks isn't it??).

currently playing a 4321 (i can also play 4411 with the same group of players which is great) with 2xams both with the ppm "gets into opposition area" so SHOULD be useful tucked in behind the lone and very capable striker. i also checked and am happy to note that my star midfielder and my good complete forward didnt move irl during the summer so should be gettable in 2012:)

but i digress. if i play the AMs as attacking midfielder/attack (i have a DLP as primary playmaker) their default wideplay setting is "move into channels". now, is this to draw defenders out of position? because my thinking is if i have them stay central they'll be more likely to be in scoring positions if the ball gets to them. if on "move into channels" will they BOTH drift wide and nowhere near the box? i've already set them to no roaming so they dont both drift wide.

if one drifts wide will the other hold position in the centre? i've been watching full matches in slo-mo but cant quite grasp it so if anyone can explain to me the logic here i'd be most grateful:)

thanks

[furiousuk]

The wide play instructions are only part of the tactical instructions that help to shape the 'space usage' of players. SAF is well known as saying that wide players who threaten central space are more effective than central players who move wide. In your example your central players move wider which contradicts Sir Alex. If your contradiction then allows space to be exploited centrally then it isn't a problem so have a think a decide whether this horizontal (or lateral) movement is creating useable space for other players.

As an example I'd offer the movement of Messi in a 451/433/41221. In the 'normal' Barca system of last year (and previous years) Messi has dropped deep more often than not which effectively means that Barca have NO players in the most attacking FM strata. This movement from most attacking strata to a deeper strata encourages the opposing DC's to follow and creates space in the central area. This central area, particularly this area closest to the opposing goal, is widely considered the most dangerous area to exploit on the pitch. The movement is only successful if somebody is encouraged to use this space. David Villa, being a striker on the wing, naturally wants to exploit this space - his tactical instructions often mimicked this natural tendency. In addition Pedro was encouraged (Henry before him definitely was) to occasionally exploit this space. In further addition Iniesta also used this space when he dictated it would be worthwhile. In further further addition Messi is more than able to dribble into this space. In this system space is created and exploited in the DC area.

In your example, if your AMC's are attempting to create space infront of the DC's then you're now going to have to think about how to exploit this vacated space. The other AMC could exploit this space by having rather neutral instructions - neutral instructions mixed with good mental player attributes will allow them to react to their partners' space-creating movement. Your FC might exploit this space or might be instructed to stay high in order to exploit any secondary space created by the DC's moving forward to fill the primary created space. Another option might be one of your 3-man midfield (probably the central player) moving forwards into this space. In this case they will probably need a primary outlet for the space they are now enjoying - this might be a long shot on goal or it could be a through ball to FC or either AMC.

Something like this would be my thought process when considering the operation of each role i.e. how does this role create space? who is exploiting the space? can they directly exploit space of does it require a further phase of attack? if I need to consider a further phase of attack, who is creating and using space and where is this space?

[Neil Train]

thanks. i'll need a little time to digest that but it's really useful! i was worried about both my AMCs moving wide but with the "moves into channels" setting - and that wasnt my idea it is the TC default, but they both appear to be popping up to receive balls in and around the box and getting chances at goal so i'll leave it default.

just need to determine now if i want them roaming or not. depends if they roam horizontally or vertically. the latter would be good. the former may lead them to being out of position when i attack

[wwfan]

If the AMCs are your key space creators and you want it to be space behind the d-line, your default tactic shouldn't be too attacking. I'd suggest Standard or Control. If you are more aggressive than this, you'll find that the ball gets to them too quickly, meaning they have no supporting players around them, leading to them getting squeezed out by the opposing midfield and defence. With too defensive a set up, they are likely to move into space too slowly, resulting in the opposition having multiple bodies back by the time they get the ball. Control or standard should be working the ball to them when they are int he 3/4 space, before the defence is set but not too soon that support hasn't materialised.

[Neil Train]

If the AMCs are your key space creators and you want it to be space behind the d-line, your default tactic shouldn't be too attacking. I'd suggest Standard or Control. If you are more aggressive than this, you'll find that the ball gets to them too quickly, meaning they have no supporting players around them, leading to them getting squeezed out by the opposing midfield and defence. With too defensive a set up, they are likely to move into space too slowly, resulting in the opposition having multiple bodies back by the time they get the ball. Control or standard should be working the ball to them when they are int he 3/4 space, before the defence is set but not too soon that support hasn't materialised.

once again thanks to both of you for taking the time to reply in detail.

i must admit, i hadn't considered who or how to exploit space, i was simply pointing out that i'm not sure i want an AM drifting wide if he is set up as a second/third striker. i don't really understand HOW to create space, i'm not as tactically adept as you guys and that's why i watch matches in detail at quite a slow setting.

ok, have ditched the 2xAMCs have gone with one tucked in behind the striker and this allows me to play a DM as well.

so i'm happy with the formation, with the couple of acquisitions i've made in the attacking department.

i was reading quite a lot recently about playing lone strikers and it never occurred to me that i would need a) someone capable of being a lone striker, possessing more than just finishing skills and that b) he shouldn;t be isolated, playing him deeper would be needed.

so what i've got is:

complete forward/support with mentality reduced to that of my back 4. so far this has got him 3 goals in 2 starts. i brought in someone who can turn a defender as well as finish off moves. on the cheap too. and irl he's still at an obscure club so i have high hopes of buying him in fm12 as well:)

attacking midfielder/attack: perfect using TC defaults. as i mentioned previously, move into channels is default so i'll leave it as it is for now and observe. i dont know whether to tick roaming or not, depends where he roams. basically i want this player both a provider for the forward or a goalscorer himself, so getting the most from him is critical.

in a narrow 3 man midfield i have a DLP/defend, an Advanced playmaker/attack - this is a player good at dribbling thru the middle and he's got 2 goals in 2 games +2 assists, so that's working, and on the right of the three i have a box to box midfielder.

so that's how i'm set up.

any thoughts?

[dribbler]

just need to determine now if i want them roaming or not. depends if they roam horizontally or vertically. the latter would be good. the former may lead them to being out of position when i attack

I think roaming means run sideways...so your winger will pop up in central areas and your AMC will sometimes run out wide...to get your AMC attacking the penalty area in central positions just tick forward runs often.