help needed with reading the game and not making random flukey changes!

[irishgooner]

Im sure a lot reading this will probably think Im being lazy posting this and have not searched for the answer. The truth is I have searched for a long

time over various versions of FM. Ive been playing FM or CM since CM3 and have always kind of had the same problem but as the game got more sophisticated the issue obviously became much more of a problem.

I've had small amounts of success in previous versions of FM but my main problem is not knowing how to read the game (or match engine). I think most of

the changes I make are guessed ,some may be logical changes but some may turn out to be sheer luck. What I'd love to be able to do is watch the game and see what I need to change before Ive conceded a goal or before Im losing huge amounts of possession. On the other side I'd also love to know what I can change in a game if I need that goal, instead of just changing to a more attacking mentality.

I've read a huge amount of posts on here and on several other forums. Ive also read all the guides such as the Ultimate FM Walkthrough and while it gave me a great insite into aspects of the game, I still see the old problems raise their ugly heads!

I havent mentioned tactics because Ive usually just tried keeping tactics simple. At the moment Im just playing a basic 4-4-2 and have set up player roles according to the guides. Ive also followed many suggestions for team instructions and individual player instructions.

I really have tried over the past few years but I just cant seem to figure out how i can spot things early so that its not too late. Its getting frustrating playing at the moment because Ive spent so long setting up the team and reading tons and tons of stuff online. Currently Im Espihno in the Portuguese 2nd dvision and while they mightnt be the best team in the world, I seem to be losing matches where Im tipped to be comfortable winners. Ive looked at everything in pre match from pitch size, weather, danger man, scouting report.

If anyone can point me in the right direction to some sort of guide or post that would help please let me know. Before I posted this I read the sticky thread about the match engine but it didnt really go into what I was looking for.

Thanks for reading and any help would be greatly appreciated!

[Steve Odom]

If I'm correct, you struggle analysing the match in order to make the most out of your team.

If this is the case, I would advise you to use the match statistics to see where it goes wrong. It really makes things easy. It will tell you where you need to adapt. Here's an example

Problem

You have low posession. Therefore, the opposition has a lot of the ball, thus creating chances or keeping you away from the goal.

Solutions

Does your team lose posession (low passing ratio)? You may need to play more conservative. Dropping tempo, lowering mentality, play shorter, simple passes...

Does your team struggle to win the ball back (low tackling ratio)? Maybe your players aren't tackling hard enough, or you play far too agressive against a technically superior team. The first is easy, just tackle harder, the latter will mean you're too agressive, lower mentatlity and less pressure and hard tackling could help you

...

This is just an example of how I use those statistics and it works just fine.

May i also note that you need to man-manage your players. I once, for example, saw a good match for my Arsenal team, only to go in behind against a weaker and defensive opposition. Simplu by using the "symphathy" team talk on all my players during half time made us win 1-4 at full time. I changed none of my tactics during this game.

Hope this wil be of any help. There 's ofcourse a lot more to it.

[irishgooner]

Thanks for reply. I've done something similar in the past in regard to possession and passing by looking at the advice of the assistant and making slight changes if he says passes arent meeting players etc. I still seem to struggle to pinpoint exactly what I should be looking out for though, even though I watch the game at a slow speed.

Have you read any other articles on here or other sites that would help further? I guess Im trying to also recognise the other teams weakness during play after setting up everything pre match

[Steve Odom]

You shouldn't always trust you assistant. Just check the match stats in the in match widget. Mostly it's easy to spot your (and your opponents) weakness there.

[furiousuk]

You can't always trust the stats either!

It's guess the scoreline again:

Ok, so despite the accurate shooting and a couple of CCC's I got spanked everywhere else by Preston and yet the 5-0 scoreline shows that I played the game right. Be wary of stats, Preston clearly made lots of passes but almost all of them were ineffectual. Similarly, the game doesn't register CCC's very well so the 3 I had might very well have been 5 or 0 by my reckoning.

The stats and the AssMan are a good indicator but learning through experience is always the best way of reading the game (engine). There's some stuff in the TT&F10 that gives ideas for reacting to the stats but it's always a good idea to develop your own judgement along side the stats and AssMan.

Try to learn from your mistakes, it happens. As you get better you'll learn when and where it's ok to make a mistake.

[Steve Odom]

Ok, so despite the accurate shooting and a couple of CCC's

Those are some of the most important statistcs! Indeed, you played the game right, making the right decisions in a match you were clearly inferior. Your pressing/marking game must have been effective and your counters deadly. This is what the statistics tell me anyway.Not everything can be solved by using statistics indeed, but for someone who's asking about "flukey changes" I guess this is the easiest part to understand.

[furiousuk]

Yep, agreed, it's a good place to start but solely relying on statistics is only playing half the game (or less).

The choices I made in the game were based on what I saw, not on the stats. Preston are last whereas I'm fighting for the title so maybe it wouldn't of mattered anyway but trying to rectify a lack of possession would of limited my main goal threat in the game (balls through and over the Preston back 4). There are many areas of the game that the statistics neglect and there are other areas of the game where the statistics can be wildly inaccurate.

I'm a fan of the analysis screens but they can be similarly misleading.

[Steve Odom]

I found none of the statistics misleading in your example. You where holding your defence tight while creating chances, so everything went fine. If you didn't create chances you would have had to adapt. "Where does it go wrong?" is the main question you'ld have had to ask yourself in that case. Using the analysis would be a fine way to start:

Am I getting any shots in? If so, from where? Should I try to increase tempo or passing length to avoid the midfield battle,... Those are all relate to pure statistics.

Agreed, the statistics don't show everything. If i understand the OP correctly though , he struggles with the more intuïtive decisions. That's the reasen why I pointed out the analysis screen.

About the CCC's, i do think the match engine considers them easy chances, I believe it's the 3D view (or 2D view for that matter) that doesn't show the CCC's very well. Thet's my opinion though.

[furiousuk]

You're obviously far better at reading the statistics than I am

Despite being wary of statistics I'd definitely like to see more in-game statistics and analysis tools. I think the simplest addition would be allowing me to see all the statistics and analysis but specify the time-frame, for example 'last 10 minutes'. This would make the statistics even more useful.

[Steve Odom]

I spend a lot of time creating custom views for my tram. It covers anything I need: psychological warfare, the distribution (who passes a lot and completes most of his passes), ... Maybe I need this because I can't reed the matches all that well. So this discussion might be some sort of "clash of styles".

I do agree that the analysis must be expanded in future versions, same goes for the assistants feedback. But all in all we do have a lot of information on where everything goes well or wrong.

[irishgooner]

You're obviously far better at reading the statistics than I am

Despite being wary of statistics I'd definitely like to see more in-game statistics and analysis tools. I think the simplest addition would be allowing me to see all the statistics and analysis but specify the time-frame, for example 'last 10 minutes'. This would make the statistics even more useful.

by the way furiousuk i read your post just below mine and the first part of it. Great reads, great analysis of the tactics you explain them really well and ill definitely be putting some of your tips to use in my tactics.

glad i could create a little discussion between the 2 of you ;-)

steve thanks again for reply. there was a podcast talking about how to improve tactics and they talked about reading the game better such as watching how your full back reacts to a situation and if they go too far forward or not. That was kind of the thing I guess I was looking to get more familiar with, and also getting the best out of my players in the system Im using. Another words I dont want to have to wait until I loose a lod of matches before I can say ok this isnt working with these players, Id like to be able to spot that player x isnt suiting the system or the system isnt suiting the team.

I guess its probably what everyone wants lol maybe some are just better than others!

[Steve Odom]

In the analysis screen (post match) you can also look at the overview of the players passing, shooting, heading and tackling. A lot of red dots meens there's something wrong. You can also click on the dots to look at the situation in match. I've found this very useful a few months in the league, when my team is settled and tactics become my prime center of attention.

[NUFCAlex]

Yep, agreed, it's a good place to start but solely relying on statistics is only playing half the game (or less).

The choices I made in the game were based on what I saw, not on the stats. Preston are last whereas I'm fighting for the title so maybe it wouldn't of mattered anyway but trying to rectify a lack of possession would of limited my main goal threat in the game (balls through and over the Preston back 4). There are many areas of the game that the statistics neglect and there are other areas of the game where the statistics can be wildly inaccurate.

I'm a fan of the analysis screens but they can be similarly misleading.

I agree. You can use the stats as a guideline but the most important thing to take note of is what you can see is happening on the pitch. For example in a recent game i played with my Sheffield Wednesday side, who are in their first season in the premier league and therefore underdogs for most every game, I recorded a 4-0 victory over Arsenal despite only having roughly 30% of the possession. I dont have the screen shots currently as i'm at work.

I tend to keep the stats box open all through the game so i can use it as a reference however in this particular game i felt nothing needed changing tactically as everytime a highlight appeared on screen it was my team in possession with Arsenal having very few threatening attacking moves during play. I dont class myself as an expert on the game and in similar circumstances when i have taken the lead against superior opposition the play generally turns against me no matter what i do tactically and they will end up equalising pretty much straight away.

So i empathise with the original poster in some ways as i too have read numerous sources online including the ultimate FM walkthrough guide in the hope of being able to make the right changes at the right time from looking at the stats etc but i also feel hopeless at times when my tactical decisions in game do nothing for my team and they become powerless to resist as my opponents take over: 2-6 home defeat vs Spurs.

[irishgooner]

I agree. You can use the stats as a guideline but the most important thing to take note of is what you can see is happening on the pitch. For example in a recent game i played with my Sheffield Wednesday side, who are in their first season in the premier league and therefore underdogs for most every game, I recorded a 4-0 victory over Arsenal despite only having roughly 30% of the possession. I dont have the screen shots currently as i'm at work.

I tend to keep the stats box open all through the game so i can use it as a reference however in this particular game i felt nothing needed changing tactically as everytime a highlight appeared on screen it was my team in possession with Arsenal having very few threatening attacking moves during play. I dont class myself as an expert on the game and in similar circumstances when i have taken the lead against superior opposition the play generally turns against me no matter what i do tactically and they will end up equalising pretty much straight away.

So i empathise with the original poster in some ways as i too have read numerous sources online including the ultimate FM walkthrough guide in the hope of being able to make the right changes at the right time from looking at the stats etc but i also feel hopeless at times when my tactical decisions in game do nothing for my team and they become powerless to resist as my opponents take over: 2-6 home defeat vs Spurs.

a 4-0 victory against Arsenal for a team just promoted sounds pretty good to me! You must be doing something right

[Faramir]

I would agree with the others that stats can sometimes tell the tale of a match, but I guess I fall on the other side of the fence. I watch matches in extended mode and base most of my choices on how I see the match developing.

As an example, one of my last few matches we were dominating possession, but our inconsistent passing was costing us dearly as we continually gave away dangerous chances with one bad pass. At halftime I opted to swap out control for counter-attack (and the 'more direct' passing setting) and we scored two quick goals off long passes that my forwards (quicker than their defenders) ran down and converted. After that, I switched back to control and throttled them again for the rest of the match.

Some of my choices are instictive- if I feel a player is having a bad match or is ineffective I will often sub him off (no matter what his rating is). If my club is sluggish and not showing much life, I may well pull off whoever is captain (especially if not my club's Captain or Assistant). I also make choices on flow of the match, as I might switch to my flat 451 defensive approach as early as 55-60 minutes, or I might hold off til the dying moments. A lot of that comes from having played the series since CM2 when I used to make choices based on my reading of the text commentary.

I would encourage you though- even now there are times when my side just doesn't play up to par and occasionally you can do nothing but take the result and move on.

[Jenko_EFC]

I watch matches in Full 2D and just make decisions as I would if I were managing a real football match. I think having an interest and knowledge about football in real life is far more valuable than being able to "crack" statistics or sliders. My advice would be to actually watch your games and pay attention, you'll enjoy it.

[Steve Odom]

Ofcourse, but not everyone has the time or patience to do so. I'd reccomend "extended" for most managers, since "key" can make time go too fast to analyse the game and change settings accordingly.