Attributes Question...

[R. Hearn]

What affects decline in player attributes other than age? I can understand seeing red arrows in ageing players close to retirement, but not in players under 28. Training reports doesn't say that they've trained badly and when I do check their training levels, it's high and they are either pleased or happy with their schedule. So what other factors come into play? It's kind of worrying seeing my central defenders dropping points in tackling and other key attributes.

Also, speaking of training levels, I notice there are two shades of blue. Does the lighter shade mean they've trained well (which is what I've always thought) or the darker blue? Thanks!

[furiousuk]

Frustrating when young(ish) players decline in key areas, it sometimes happens right after I've just bought a player so I think it has a lot to do with happiness. Happy players train better, unhappy ones don't so you might expect the odd red arrow, these will usually go green again after a few weeks adjustment in this case.

In other cases it is likely that a change in training schedule can cause these. If a player has reached their potential ability then in theory they won't make any more improvements - if you give them a neutral training schedule then this will happen and the player will maintain their attributes. If you give them a schedule with intensive ball control then you may see some attributes dip to allow some attributes in ball control to rise - a redistribution of attribute points. It is likely that with younger players this is the cause although check their morale because unhappy players are likely to decline slightly, particularly if they aren't playing much.

As for older players declining, natural fitness makes a huge difference here. Players with a 20 in natural fitness can easily play on into their mid-30's with hardly any decline in attributes. At 35 in my game Ivica Olic was still a physical specimen, same with Hulk, and even Frank Lampard & Dirk Kuyt are still going strong at 38 and 36. I don't think the AI uses any specialist training regimes to get the most out of older players so they have stayed 'dandy' simply through playing lots.

I'm not sure what you mean about the training levels and the shades of blue, if you mean the bar charts then I'm pretty sure it's light blue that means they have trained better as the bar is higher. These are a little misleading though and are connected to your coaches and level of facilities as well as the determination, professionalism, happiness and motivation of the player. A higher training schedule won't necessarily see a rise in this bar - if the player is unhappy with a harder schedule the bar will fall.

[R. Hearn]

Thanks for that.

I haven't changed any of their schedules so I'm guessing they must have reached their potential. Would a neutral schedule be similar to the default 'general' schedule?

And yeah, I meant the bars. When I get training reports saying x player hasn't trained well in x category, I usually check their profiles to see if th have dropped any points before look at the bars on their training screen. The bars are usually light blue even in the category my assistant says they haven't trained well in. Which makes me wonder which of the two it is.

[Marsupian]

It could be that his training schedule focuses a bit too much on one area (lets say strength) which draws away some CA from other attributes. Attributes don't go up or down by whole points but in decimals (or even smaller increments) so it could be that a lot of attributes gave away a small bit of CA to the strength attribute which happens to dip a few of those attributes over the turning point between two hole numbers which causes the red arrows to appear. If you look at the attributes progression charts in the training tab of the specific player you get a chart which gives more detailed info on how high the attribute really is (if it dropped by a lot or just a decimal or two) so that would be some useful info to look at. You can also see if their are any attributes rising at the same time as the others dropped or if they just dropped across the board. If it is the later than something happened to him that made him lose some CA but apart from injuries I don't know what can cause that.

[R. Hearn]

Thanks a lot. Very helpful. An injury almost two months or so could explain that of my goalie, but not sure about my DC. And I just checked the graph and they didn't drop by a whole point, just fractions. No increase in any other attributes so far. Also, I don't usually have strength training high, unless during pre-season. It's usually about 2-3 clicks into medium. Though I do tend to have tactics training high for all my schedules.

[furiousuk]

There's an option in the private chat to give them a rollocking for not training hard enough. Not sure if it does much but it makes me feel better.

[R. Hearn]

When is the appropriate time to use this option. For example, would it be okay to use it when my assistant reports at the start of the month that x player failed in impress in x category last month etc.

[furiousuk]

I normally do it when my assman has said they've trained badly in their monthly review, sometimes players get a bit uppity but I slap them again and they normally accept it (I wouldn't necessarily be so hard on a new player or a new squad, particularly if I've just taken a job at a bigger club). If I notice the decline during the month then I'll give them the hairdryer then and it often works. I'll often use it with youngsters if they haven't improved which is a little harsh but they normally see things my way!

I'm never quite sure how much to trust my assman report, sometimes if he says a player has trained poorly in a category I'll check and find that they have actually improved.

It's also a matter of knowing your players. If you have a determined and professional type who is declining then try and find out why, have they been playing badly? Are they wanting a new contract? Are they worried above squad competition for places? Or worried they might get the axe in the transfer window? If it's none of these then they'll definitely get the hairdryer. A less determined or less professional player will probably get the hairdryer but I might consider changing them to a new training schedule to see if that is the problem.

[R. Hearn]

I fairly trust my assistant's report as most of the time he says that, I check my players profiles to see what changes and sometimes, there are red arrows in at least one of the categories he was pointing out. Though when I check their training tab and check the bars, they are usually light blue so I tend to shrug it off. And given some time, the green arrows return. But, I will use the private chat when this month is over.

There are no worries about competition for places as I keep a small squad (currently have only 21 players) and 6 others on loan (5 of which are under 23 and I wanted them to have more playing time than they would used as rotation players at the club). No worries about contracts either as I renewed contracts of players in their last years at the start of season (haven't played my second league game yet).

And my players' personalities vary between determined and professional and so my squad personality usually varies between highly ambitious, highly determined and highly professional.

[furiousuk]

Sounds like we run things fairly similarly. It's frustrating when a player declines but I think the rocket-in-the-derriere treatment normally gets them out of a slump. I enjoy the challenge of raising youngsters and moulding players but there's a lot that I don't know (and would like to know) about how the game simulates training. Sometimes I have a player who looks like they could be a star but they seem to stagnate whereas others flourish when they look like they really shouldn't, there's black magic somewhere in there you know. A dark entity beating at the heart of every FM save!

[R. Hearn]

I know. Same thing happens to me. For example, at the start of my save, I had Marco Ezio Fossati and Thorgan Hazard. All the big teams wanted Hazard and no one glanced a look at Fossati. 5-6 seasons on, now they want Fossati and while there's still interest in Hazard, none from the big clubs. Sold him to Palermo while I loaned Fossati out to R. Madrid this season as a valuable first team player. Only Chelsea are determined to buy him outright.

Though, I wish I were able to produce a decent level of youth talents. For the third time, I've had only one 2.5 stars rated regen come through while everyone else are either rated .5 or 1.

[999kev]

every 2nd month when my assistant gives me the training review i tell evry single player at the club they arent training hard enough. the odd player disagrees then i tell them im the boss, etc and they back down. i have noticed massive positive changes in their stats. i noticed that if you go to talk to a player and the option to tell them they have trained really well comes up if you criticise them they say im sick of you bothering me about this. in short criticise every 2nd month and only praise their training if most of their stats improve.

[lam]

Not sure if this has been asnwered or not as I didnt have time to read all the replies.

THere are some key things that affect your players attributes:

1. The positions that they can play. These have an affect on where your players gained (and loss) skill are applied.

2. Training. This works with above. THis is why is can still be good to train defenders in shooting as it gives them composure. Which, for a defender, is likely to be the key gain.

3. Games played.

The positons is an interesting one. If you have a winger that can play as a 'competant) FC, then you are far more likely to see gains in their finishing than you are with an out and out winger.

Now, match this to players that are losing attributes.. in all likelyhood, one of two things is happening. A) they are at their max CA and thus in order to gain skills, they must lose skills, and it will be the ones that are not being trained and that are not relevant to their positions. An FC's marking for example or even a DC's Pace (not considered key by the game).

If a player is not at their max Ca, then they are prob injured, unfit and/or not playing enough

[Myth0logy]

every 2nd month when my assistant gives me the training review i tell evry single player at the club they arent training hard enough. the odd player disagrees then i tell them im the boss, etc and they back down. i have noticed massive positive changes in their stats. i noticed that if you go to talk to a player and the option to tell them they have trained really well comes up if you criticise them they say im sick of you bothering me about this. in short criticise every 2nd month and only praise their training if most of their stats improve.

This is not strictly correct. When you criticise them in training, you will have the opportunity to tell them that there training has been good. You should tell them it's been good if there stats have gone up. You can only praise them if you previously criticized them.

If you constantly tell them there training was poor, then - yes, they will become irritated.

I would never criticise a player unless there attributes have gone down, or your assistant manager tells you they have trained poorly. You risk alienating and confusing your squad. If you criticise them when they have trained well they have no motivation to train well in the future. Players can only be so good - players 24 or over are usually fairly close to their maximum ability. You may get the odd stat up and and odd stat down, but rarely will you see a massive change - regardless what you tell them in regard to their training performance.

Things that will affect attribute declines, most people have already stated:

1) Slack training. 95% of the time when attributes go down it's due to them slacking. There is a large random element to this, it is possible for any players to slack. Anytime I see red arrows, I have a private chat and tell them to improve in training - whether my coach has mentioned they were poor in training or not.

More than 95% admit they haven't been good enough. If the stat decrease was large, I usually warn them that they will be sold unless they improve in training, on top of telling them to improve their training performance.

2) Inujry. The worse the injury the more the stats are likely to decrease. The dreaded "cruciate ligament" or "fractured skull" can seriously damage a players career.

3) Retraining in a different position. Retraining a player to a new position costs Current Ability - meaning his stats are likely to go down. The better he becomes at that new position the more current ability it costs (his stats are likely to fall more the better he gets in that position). This is not permanent. Stop playing him in this position, and stop his training to play in this position and you should see his stats go back up.

4) Coaches. Your players can only be as good as your coaches. If you are training world class players with terrible coaches with *1 star* coaching ability their stats are likely to decrease.

5) Poor training facilities. Poor facilities can also lead to stat decreases.

6) Unhappy with training schedule. If they are unhappy, revert back to the default settings and tinker from there. Most players are at least content with the default settings - but it may take several weeks (within the game) for their opinions regarding their training schedules to change. At the highest level, if you want to get the most out of the players you should have a different training schedule for every single player.

[SFraser]

Form can also affect attribute growth/decline. If a player has been at his absolute peak for a few months and then hits a bad patch of form he can drop in attributes.

[999kev]

mythology you clearly put a lot more thought into it than i do! i was just saying what i found. i criticise them around every 2nd month and their stats improve. 99 times out of 100 they agree with me when i slate them. i find doing that makes them gets you on their favoured personel list quicker, stats improve and their morale stays up too