Player controlled GK are still Exstremely bad, and get really low ratings

@Zachary Whyte here is another one for you to just ignore!

 

Toulouse FC v FC Nordsjælland.pkm

FC København v FC Nordsjælland.pkm

Stop. Stop. Just stop. And think.

You have not shown us your tactics even once. Have you not thought for one second that you might be doing something wrong?

Look at the average xG of your opponents:

• Lyngby (0.37 from 2 shots = average: 0.18)
• FC Kobenhavn (1.11 from 8 shots = average: 0.14)
• Silkeborg (1.00 from 3 shots = average: 0.33)
• Silkeborg (1.62 from 7 shots = average: 0.23)
• Peterborough Sports (0.40 from 3 shots = average: 0.13)
• Hereford (1.16 from 5 shots = average: 0.23)
• Boston Utd (0.80 from 8 shots = average: 0.10)
• King's Lynn (0.34 from 4 shots = average: 0.08)
• Brackley (1.26 from 9 shots = average: 0.14)
• Spennymoor (0.77 from 8 shots = average: 0.09)
• Tamworth (0.63 from 6 shots = average: 0.10)
• Granada (0.71 from 5 shots = average: 0.14)
• Vejle (0.55 from 4 shots = average: 0.13)
• Vejle (1.04 from 8 shots = average: 0.13)
• Brondby (0.98 from 4 shots = average: 0.25)
• Hvidovre (1.30 from 5 shots = average: 0.26)
• OB (0.51 from 5 shots = average: 0.10)
• Toulouse (2.42 from 7 shots = average: 0.34)
• Kobenhavn (0.69 from 6 shots = average: 0.11)

In most of those cases, you're giving up an average of over 0.1 xG per shot. In several cases, it's over 0.2.

From what precious little you have given up, I can probably assume that your tactic is ultra-aggressive, with hardly anyone being left to defend against counter-attacks. Hence the chances you give up are often higher-quality ones that the opposition have at least a decent chance of scoring. You cannot always blame the goalkeeper if there aren't enough defenders back to help him out.

I hate to be the one who says "it's your tactics"... but in this case, it could be your tactics. But unless you show us your tactical setup, we cannot say anything for sure.

On 30/12/2023 at 14:17, CFuller said:

Stop. Stop. Just stop. And think.

You have not shown us your tactics even once. Have you not thought for one second that you might be doing something wrong?

Look at the average xG of your opponents:

• Lyngby (0.37 from 2 shots = average: 0.18)
• FC Kobenhavn (1.11 from 8 shots = average: 0.14)
• Silkeborg (1.00 from 3 shots = average: 0.33)
• Silkeborg (1.62 from 7 shots = average: 0.23)
• Peterborough Sports (0.40 from 3 shots = average: 0.13)
• Hereford (1.16 from 5 shots = average: 0.23)
• Boston Utd (0.80 from 8 shots = average: 0.10)
• King's Lynn (0.34 from 4 shots = average: 0.08)
• Brackley (1.26 from 9 shots = average: 0.14)
• Spennymoor (0.77 from 8 shots = average: 0.09)
• Tamworth (0.63 from 6 shots = average: 0.10)
• Granada (0.71 from 5 shots = average: 0.14)
• Vejle (0.55 from 4 shots = average: 0.13)
• Vejle (1.04 from 8 shots = average: 0.13)
• Brondby (0.98 from 4 shots = average: 0.25)
• Hvidovre (1.30 from 5 shots = average: 0.26)
• OB (0.51 from 5 shots = average: 0.10)
• Toulouse (2.42 from 7 shots = average: 0.34)
• Kobenhavn (0.69 from 6 shots = average: 0.11)

In most of those cases, you're giving up an average of over 0.1 xG per shot. In several cases, it's over 0.2.

From what precious little you have given up, I can probably assume that your tactic is ultra-aggressive, with hardly anyone being left to defend against counter-attacks. Hence the chances you give up are often higher-quality ones that the opposition have at least a decent chance of scoring. You cannot always blame the goalkeeper if there aren't enough defenders back to help him out.

I hate to be the one who says "it's your tactics"... but in this case, it could be your tactics. But unless you show us your tactical setup, we cannot say anything for sure.

Sorry, but this has nothing to do with tactics. I can tell even without knowing the guys tactics. Something is wrong with the amount of goals and the way they are scored. So many examples, but still amazing that so many users obviously dont think, that this is a problem. Apparently people are more interested in excitement than realism. And still SI refuse to realize and look in to the issue

2 minutes ago, Anders J said:

Sorry, but this has nothing to do with tactics. I can tell even without knowing the guys tactics. Something is wrong with the amount of goals and the way they are scored. So many examples, but still amazing that so many users obviously dont think, that this is a problem. Apparently people are more interested in excitement than realism. And still SI refuse to realize and look in to the issue

Okay... here are some screenshots from my save.

Sarkic isn't a great goalkeeper by any means ("decent EFL Championship") but he performed well for me in my save, preventing 4 more goals than 'expected'. It also helps that I had a solid backline, protected by an actual defensive midfielder (a half-back or a DM, not a ball-winning midfielder). In most games, we didn't give up too many good opportunities - rarely more than 0.15 xG per shot.

Though we did have the odd battering, we still finished the season with a respectable 56 goals conceded in 46 league games, and an opposition conversion rate of less than 12%. At the other end, our shot conversion rate was just over 15%, which ruins the popular narrative that the AI needs fewer chances to score than you do.

I won't deny that goalkeepers - AI-managed or human-managed - are perhaps not as reliable on FM24 as they could be. But if you're conceding from about 1 in 5 shots (if not more), and most of the chances you're giving up are higher-quality chances, then you need to take a closer look at your tactics. I'm NOT saying it is definitely your tactics, but you cannot just dismiss that possibility out of hand.

I dont necessarily think, that AI- managed keepers, are performing better that human- managed, althogh i know that's what this specific topic is about. I cant define where the problem is, i just see a lot of "freak- goals" and high scoring games. Some games, all shots just flies past the keeper from every range and angle, and other games its more balanced, but i rarely see a 0-0 or 1-0 game. 

In my last save WITH the latest update installed, the average amount of goals pr. game, in the Danish Superliga, was 0,60 goals higher in the first half of the season, than in real life. I think that is quite significant. And that was my experience in my earlier saves of FM24 as well. 

Made me give up and go back to FM23, unfortunately. 

XG for that 1 shot on goal by the ai was 0,06....

XG from goals score by the AI is 0,14 and 0,04

AI two shots on target where 0,12 and 0,13 XG

OB v FC Nordsjælland.pkm

Dude, you're essentially playing 4-2-4 with 3 forwards, a Trequartista who doesn't track back or press, a BWM (steps out of position to press), Carrilero (Moves wider) - so essentialy you have no midfiled, combined with 2 Ball-playing defenders (which attempt risky passes, to whom, as you basically have no midfield)? I bet you also have trigger press more often and high/very hugh LOE.

As CFuller said - it's your tactics.

4 minutes ago, damian2112 said:

Dude, you're essentially playing 4-2-4 with 3 forwards, a Trequartista who doesn't track back or press, a BWM (steps out of position to press), Carrilero (Moves wider) - so essentialy you have no midfiled, combined with 2 Ball-playing defenders (which attempt risky passes, to whom, as you basically have no midfield)? I bet you also have trigger press more often and high/very hugh LOE.

As CFuller said - it's your tactics.

Agreed. If you want your team to be defensively solid, then your most defensive-minded midfielder should never be a ball-winner.

Also, having two wing-backs can't be helping matters if they're both on Attack duties. At least I hope they're not both on Attack duties. That would basically leave just TWO outfield players staying back to deal with counter-attacks. No wonder the opposition scores so often from so few opportunities.

I can't give any more tactical advice until the OP shows their tactic in full - with roles, duties and instructions. Even then, they are probably better off posting it in the Tactics forum, so that more folks over there can help them figure out what's going wrong.

Both wingbacks are on defend to creat a constant back 4.

 

and the problem is not giving away big chances, the problem is the the AI scores from pretty much all small chances they get. Scoring way to many goals with their only shot on goal despite that shot having an XG under 0,15. And i know that still means the the shot have 15% chance of going in, but there is something wrong with balance in the game.

 

0,15 XG for the AI feel very much different that and XG for a human controlled team 0,15.

6 hours ago, Hoffbeck said:

0,15 XG for the AI feel very much different that and XG for a human controlled team 0,15.

I emphasized the key word for you in that sentence.

That one shot on target had an XG of 0,06

On 30/12/2023 at 07:17, CFuller said:

Stop. Stop. Just stop. And think.

You have not shown us your tactics even once. Have you not thought for one second that you might be doing something wrong?

Look at the average xG of your opponents:

• Lyngby (0.37 from 2 shots = average: 0.18)
• FC Kobenhavn (1.11 from 8 shots = average: 0.14)
• Silkeborg (1.00 from 3 shots = average: 0.33)
• Silkeborg (1.62 from 7 shots = average: 0.23)
• Peterborough Sports (0.40 from 3 shots = average: 0.13)
• Hereford (1.16 from 5 shots = average: 0.23)
• Boston Utd (0.80 from 8 shots = average: 0.10)
• King's Lynn (0.34 from 4 shots = average: 0.08)
• Brackley (1.26 from 9 shots = average: 0.14)
• Spennymoor (0.77 from 8 shots = average: 0.09)
• Tamworth (0.63 from 6 shots = average: 0.10)
• Granada (0.71 from 5 shots = average: 0.14)
• Vejle (0.55 from 4 shots = average: 0.13)
• Vejle (1.04 from 8 shots = average: 0.13)
• Brondby (0.98 from 4 shots = average: 0.25)
• Hvidovre (1.30 from 5 shots = average: 0.26)
• OB (0.51 from 5 shots = average: 0.10)
• Toulouse (2.42 from 7 shots = average: 0.34)
• Kobenhavn (0.69 from 6 shots = average: 0.11)

In most of those cases, you're giving up an average of over 0.1 xG per shot. In several cases, it's over 0.2.

From what precious little you have given up, I can probably assume that your tactic is ultra-aggressive, with hardly anyone being left to defend against counter-attacks. Hence the chances you give up are often higher-quality ones that the opposition have at least a decent chance of scoring. You cannot always blame the goalkeeper if there aren't enough defenders back to help him out.

I hate to be the one who says "it's your tactics"... but in this case, it could be your tactics. But unless you show us your tactical setup, we cannot say anything for sure.

I'm... really at a loss to this. What is YOUR impression of what an average xG per shot is supposed to be?  Those look to be frankly about average for the EPL at least.  What's more... the problem here is about the KEEPER.  Therefore the factor at hand only matters to the quality of the shots on target! If he's facing a couple of shots on target per match, and those shots aren't of a high xG... there's a problem at hand here.  This really, REALLY isn't complicated. A poor tactical plan concedes more shots, more shots on target and higher xG chances (clear cut). We're looking at those numbers without the tactics. If he was complaining about how many shots get passed his defensive line, or that they were remarkably high xG, that's a tactics issue. Looking at the numbers, he's not letting a high number of shots through to keeper and they aren't at all gilt-edged chances which means they boil down to the keeper's job.

Honestly.

XG of the shot that leaded to AI goals: 0,09 +  0,10 + 0,14.........

On 06/01/2024 at 12:05, damian2112 said:

Dude, you're essentially playing 4-2-4 with 3 forwards, a Trequartista who doesn't track back or press, a BWM (steps out of position to press), Carrilero (Moves wider) - so essentialy you have no midfiled, combined with 2 Ball-playing defenders (which attempt risky passes, to whom, as you basically have no midfield)? I bet you also have trigger press more often and high/very hugh LOE.

As CFuller said - it's your tactics.

I don't want to come off mean here but, while yes, this is a wildly aggressive tactic, that actually has NOTHING to do with the posted problem.  If he's higher quality than the opposition and can maintain a hard press on the other team and wants to play wild, go for it. Not all his screenshots are demonstrating the problem but a whole lot are.

The problem we're all livid about is what the KEEPER is doing. If the keeper is seeing 7 shots, 4 of them on target with a combined xG of .57 and concedes 3??? That's abysmal. 

Claudio Bravo for Man City saved only 56% of shots on target (I don't think they were tracking xG at the time) and got bounced out within a year seen as a terrible performance.

If they're not clear cut chances, with like .1 chance of scoring, you should NOT be conceding so regularly. We are sick of the gk inability to save so few easy shots, it's legitimately got nothing to do with the tactics. Don't be that guy.

By all means stick your fingers in your ears and pretend that you're doing nothing wrong. But if your tactic is wildly aggressive and there's hardly anyone back to defend against counter-attacks, don't be surprised if you concede regularly.

I will admit again that goalkeepers on FM24 are not as reliable as they could be, but you cannot blame them for everything - especially not if your tactic is so defensively suspect.

Anyway, it's clear that the OP is just here for a moan now. They've given up posting PKMs (SI can't do anything with match stats screenshots), they refuse to post their tactics (even when prompted), and they're refusing to take ANY responsibility for ANY mistakes they might have made. We're just going around in circles now, and it's getting to the point where this bug report might as well be disregarded and the thread closed.

On 23/01/2024 at 05:36, CFuller said:

By all means stick your fingers in your ears and pretend that you're doing nothing wrong. But if your tactic is wildly aggressive and there's hardly anyone back to defend against counter-attacks, don't be surprised if you concede regularly.

I will admit again that goalkeepers on FM24 are not as reliable as they could be, but you cannot blame them for everything - especially not if your tactic is so defensively suspect.

Anyway, it's clear that the OP is just here for a moan now. They've given up posting PKMs (SI can't do anything with match stats screenshots), they refuse to post their tactics (even when prompted), and they're refusing to take ANY responsibility for ANY mistakes they might have made. We're just going around in circles now, and it's getting to the point where this bug report might as well be disregarded and the thread closed.

The belligerent denial to see the problem here is amazing. But we can't keep repeating this but SI has denied there being a problem and flatly refused to look more.

It is NOT about the frequency of concession of goals. It's the easy sloppy goals being conceded. If the keeper can't bother to save the easiest of chances, why have one between the sticks? The xG and shots data is plenty to see the problem and tactics has nothing to do with the keeper's job.

Your harassment and dismissal does nothing for it either. He did post pkms with no acknowledgement from SI and gave up on that. 
He posted more information with the outcries of "tactics" being the issue despite the fact that he's not claiming he shouldn't concede any, just conceding from SO few chances and such low quality ones. Even if he wasn't, the matter is a real one and has been ignored entirely by SI.

Why is everyone compelled to not think about the issue and be so belligerent? 
It is a real issue

On 23/01/2024 at 05:36, CFuller said:

By all means stick your fingers in your ears and pretend that you're doing nothing wrong. But if your tactic is wildly aggressive and there's hardly anyone back to defend against counter-attacks, don't be surprised if you concede regularly.

I will admit again that goalkeepers on FM24 are not as reliable as they could be, but you cannot blame them for everything - especially not if your tactic is so defensively suspect.

Anyway, it's clear that the OP is just here for a moan now. They've given up posting PKMs (SI can't do anything with match stats screenshots), they refuse to post their tactics (even when prompted), and they're refusing to take ANY responsibility for ANY mistakes they might have made. We're just going around in circles now, and it's getting to the point where this bug report might as well be disregarded and the thread closed.

But if you want to insist... Go ahead and critique my tactics, balanced, defensive and possession oriented, conceded my first 4 shots on target with an xG of like.... .9 in total with a full strength squad. And hardly a rare occurance

Leeds v Arsenal.pkm

On 23/01/2024 at 12:36, CFuller said:

By all means stick your fingers in your ears and pretend that you're doing nothing wrong. But if your tactic is wildly aggressive and there's hardly anyone back to defend against counter-attacks, don't be surprised if you concede regularly.

I will admit again that goalkeepers on FM24 are not as reliable as they could be, but you cannot blame them for everything - especially not if your tactic is so defensively suspect.

Anyway, it's clear that the OP is just here for a moan now. They've given up posting PKMs (SI can't do anything with match stats screenshots), they refuse to post their tactics (even when prompted), and they're refusing to take ANY responsibility for ANY mistakes they might have made. We're just going around in circles now, and it's getting to the point where this bug report might as well be disregarded and the thread closed.

The only ones who are sticking their fingers in their ears, are the people who are responsible for this mess of a game. They stopped answering long time ago, and doesn't seem to take loyal players throug a lot of years serious. Seems like all they care about, is all the "Fifa players", who for some reason, find this unrealistic game enjoyable. 

I found another one from before. Arsenal vs Panathinakos in a friendly. I crushed them 8-2, but they had exactly 2 shots, on target or otherwise, combined .66 xG (the first one was a good chance) but Balanced, mid block, defensive roles, and on the whole very cautious vs such a weak opponent.  The second shot had .04 chance from outside the box.  Over, and over, watching first shot on target being scored, often every shot on target scores. Last year Rambo ranked dead last in saves parried, and did not rank at ALL in saves held as... yes indeed, Rambo held fewer saves than the BACKUP keepers over the course of the year despite not missing a game last year. Most games played at Balanced, the only way I managed any success was purely stopping any shots at all wherever I could.

If the only solution is playing like you have no confidence in your keeper... there's no fun in the game. Stats wise also... there's only 4-6 keepers in the world that I've found with better stats of one-one and reflexes than Rambo so upgrades aren't much of an option at 200+ mil. 
I've tried with Raya and a couple others either. It's offensive

Panathinaikos v Arsenal.pkm

On 23/01/2024 at 12:36, CFuller said:

By all means stick your fingers in your ears and pretend that you're doing nothing wrong. But if your tactic is wildly aggressive and there's hardly anyone back to defend against counter-attacks, don't be surprised if you concede regularly.

I will admit again that goalkeepers on FM24 are not as reliable as they could be, but you cannot blame them for everything - especially not if your tactic is so defensively suspect.

Anyway, it's clear that the OP is just here for a moan now. They've given up posting PKMs (SI can't do anything with match stats screenshots), they refuse to post their tactics (even when prompted), and they're refusing to take ANY responsibility for ANY mistakes they might have made. We're just going around in circles now, and it's getting to the point where this bug report might as well be disregarded and the thread closed.

Why is my tactic the issue?? - granted if my tactic resolve in the AI getting a few very high XG chances because it is to aggresive, the tactic would be the issue.

 

 

The problem here is however, as the screenssot, and many PKM's i have uploaded in the start of this thread (which have been ignored). Is that the chances i conceed are XG from 0,01 - 0,25 and the AI scores from pretty much all of them! yes 0,25 means 25% procent of a goal, however it seems more lik 75% if the shot is from the AI

 

 

The goal was from a 0,16 XG and the second shot on target was 0,17........ this is the norm by now

 

FC Nordsjælland v Viborg FF.pkm