Belgium finances

@Grez @Bartrcm maybe you can upload exampled from this edition please ?

50 minutes ago, OlivierL said:

@Grez @Bartrcm maybe you can upload exampled from this edition please ?

I can only show the projection, and that is looking terrible. Losing €1.5M per year. So again, Belgium is unplayable.

Hi OlivierL,

The issue I've seen is slightly different but does affect at least a couple of clubs in Belgium that I'm aware of. I can explain what happens:

Oostende and Eupen both start with large bank loans (£5-10m+, which is a lot for Belgium) and large chairman loans. The bank loans are set up to be paid over 1 year only, which they can't afford.

The repayments of these bank loans cause these clubs to go into £5-10m+ of debt during their first season, which makes it almost inevitable they enter administration.

The administration emails/news items then state that the clubs are in £40-50m+ of debt because the chairman loans are included in the total figure.

I suspect that the loan terms are set up incorrectly and should be paid over a longer, more manageable term, but I'm not an expert on these clubs irl finances.

Cheers,

Grez 

I'll have a look at the finances again.

Could be a bug; loans to board and so on are not put in randomly, but based on the yearly financial declaration that has to be put in by all busines (& professional clubs) in Belgium.

So the 'cash available amount' is the actual amount declared. As are the debt to be paid within the year or on a longer period.

 

As for Oostende : they are in financial trouble in real life. Rushing to find a new owner, or they will get problems obtaining their license for 2024/2025.

As are several other professional teams. 

 

Regarding the lower teams in division : I'll check if we can amend this by data, or if it is an actual bug.

On 23/10/2023 at 20:09, Grez said:

Hi OlivierL,

The issue I've seen is slightly different but does affect at least a couple of clubs in Belgium that I'm aware of. I can explain what happens:

Oostende and Eupen both start with large bank loans (£5-10m+, which is a lot for Belgium) and large chairman loans. The bank loans are set up to be paid over 1 year only, which they can't afford.

The repayments of these bank loans cause these clubs to go into £5-10m+ of debt during their first season, which makes it almost inevitable they enter administration.

The administration emails/news items then state that the clubs are in £40-50m+ of debt because the chairman loans are included in the total figure.

I suspect that the loan terms are set up incorrectly and should be paid over a longer, more manageable term, but I'm not an expert on these clubs irl finances.

Cheers,

Grez 

I've checked Oostende : total debts until 30/06/2022 (official data) were 17.824.265 euro. Of Which 12.571.251 has to be paid within the year.

The loan to chairman, isn't to be paid untill the club will be sold.

review (although in Dutch), I've marked the finances to be paid in yellow.

N0 financial data is entered without official input. (income & spendings)

 

 

Concerning the lower division teams; I'll have a look at the contracts. I've seen a lot of them are put part-time + wages. I'll modify them to amateur and delete the wages. Maybe this can be one of the causes.

5 hours ago, Moondog777 said:

I've checked Oostende : total debts until 30/06/2022 (official data) were 17.824.265 euro. Of Which 12.571.251 has to be paid within the year.

The loan to chairman, isn't to be paid untill the club will be sold.

review (although in Dutch), I've marked the finances to be paid in yellow.

N0 financial data is entered without official input. (income & spendings)

 

 

Concerning the lower division teams; I'll have a look at the contracts. I've seen a lot of them are put part-time + wages. I'll modify them to amateur and delete the wages. Maybe this can be one of the causes.

Good evening, thanks for taking a look and replying . I think you also need to look to the ground maintenance , non football costs and youth setup costs, they are extremly high if you compare them with teams in france, portugal etc in third or fourth division. 

these aren't filled in, as not mentioned in the tax revenue.

suppose these get filled in under general expences & debts.

don't forget actual costs for many things are also higher then in Portugal to name one.

 

leagues lower than 3rd tier aren't supported, so is additional, we cannot provide total input for all the teams in the game.

1st 3 leagues should be well covered.

5 hours ago, Moondog777 said:

I've checked Oostende : total debts until 30/06/2022 (official data) were 17.824.265 euro. Of Which 12.571.251 has to be paid within the year.

The loan to chairman, isn't to be paid untill the club will be sold.

review (although in Dutch), I've marked the finances to be paid in yellow.

N0 financial data is entered without official input. (income & spendings)

 

 

Concerning the lower division teams; I'll have a look at the contracts. I've seen a lot of them are put part-time + wages. I'll modify them to amateur and delete the wages. Maybe this can be one of the causes.

Sounds like Oostende is correct then. I just thought it was worth mentioning when I saw multiple clubs falling into administration.

Do we know if the Aspire Academy are looking to sell Eupen too? It feels a little weird that they allow the club to go into administration so easily in-game given it has been a part of the Qatari football project - we all know Qatar can easily afford to cover the debts if they want to. I'm sure the debt is correct if their financial documents say so, it just feels more likely that they'd bail out the club rather than letting it fall into administration - unless you know something about them looking to end that partnership.

The influence of Qatar is dropping, as it was intended untill the WC.

They're not out completely, but my guess is that Eupen will have to bring in more own cash.

1 hour ago, Moondog777 said:

these aren't filled in, as not mentioned in the tax revenue.

suppose these get filled in under general expences & debts.

don't forget actual costs for many things are also higher then in Portugal to name one.

 

leagues lower than 3rd tier aren't supported, so is additional, we cannot provide total input for all the teams in the game.

1st 3 leagues should be well covered.

Teams from the 3rd tier are losing money from the start of the game. Please check my opening post and feedback from @Bartrcm We posted a lot of information last year with saved games and screenshots.

Thanks for checking.

 

as stated, I am amending the contracts & wages. this should bring down the difference.  Most of them have amateur contracts in rela life. (and as the leagues name states)

costs for youth depend on the importance of youth for the club & intake of them. This is generated bij the game, taking in account different acting values.

maintenance depends on all sorts of stuff (renewal date of the pitch, weather, if the surface is known as ok or not...) this is generated by the game itself.

 

Thank you ! will this be tested and updated for the full release ?

not in my hands, is the programming dpt.

I've pointed out the importance, but I suppose all the headresearchers will do the same.

But I can assure you it is on the list.

22 hours ago, Moondog777 said:

not in my hands, is the programming dpt.

I've pointed out the importance, but I suppose all the headresearchers will do the same.

But I can assure you it is on the list.

Thank you very much. Finally somebody who do something with our remarks.

17 hours ago, Bartrcm said:

Thank you very much. Finally somebody who do something with our remarks.

try to do my best, cannot say when it will be resolved. But working on it.

@Moondog777 can you please confirm that your potential fix was not included in the full game

Should i post this here or in the new bugs forum ?

 

Did a second test

 

Harelbeke

one year holiday 29/6/23:

 

one year after adding myself as their manager:

=> loss 1.1m

Oudenaarde

one year holiday 29/6/23:

one year after adding myself as their manager:

=>Loss 2.1m.

 

Hasselt

one year holiday 29/6/23:

one year after adding myself as their manager:

=>Loss 1.3m.

 

Lyra-Lierse

one year holiday 29/6/23:

one year after adding myself as their manager:

=>Loss 1.6m.

 

 

I've adjusted the contracts, but it has not yet been uploaded into the database.

It is listed for a future update.

Wages/contracts have been amended, I hope this will do the trick (some had indeed very high wages)

Sorry about any delay.

11 minutes ago, Moondog777 said:

I've adjusted the contracts, but it has not yet been uploaded into the database.

It is listed for a future update.

Wages/contracts have been amended, I hope this will do the trick (some had indeed very high wages)

Sorry about any delay.

Thanks, Should I report this somewhere else just to be sure or is this ok in your safe hands ? 

you know I still think that youth setup costs are way too high for a third division team in Belgium 

I feel like belgium as a nation is one of the hardest nations to play in. They basically gave the league to their big 5 who get 80% of all TV money with :shrug: to everyone else.

On 07/11/2023 at 00:21, OlivierL said:

Thanks, Should I report this somewhere else just to be sure or is this ok in your safe hands ? 

you know I still think that youth setup costs are way too high for a third division team in Belgium 

I've dropped the intake of youngster, should drop the cost

On 07/11/2023 at 07:05, phantombandit said:

I feel like belgium as a nation is one of the hardest nations to play in. They basically gave the league to their big 5 who get 80% of all TV money with :shrug: to everyone else.

seems business as usual ;-)

Update: did a new trial today.

Holidayed one season , picked the team that got promoted from 4th tier : Berchem Sport

Starting finances:

After one season(without me adding any staff, player contracts etc)

look at the costs, non football costs are very high (in november already 220k) and the youth setup cost like almost for every team in belgium is high.

 

10 hours ago, OlivierL said:

Update: did a new trial today.

Holidayed one season , picked the team that got promoted from 4th tier : Berchem Sport

Starting finances:

After one season(without me adding any staff, player contracts etc)

look at the costs, non football costs are very high (in november already 220k) and the youth setup cost like almost for every team in belgium is high.

 

Thanks for the trial run. Unfortunally, it seems that Belgium is still unplayable.

Actually I would like to understand how "Non-Football Costs" & "Match Day Expenses" are calculated.

Especailly "Match Day Expenses" is more than double of "Match Day Income" in all playable leagues.

On 13/11/2023 at 18:25, Bartrcm said:

Thanks for the trial run. Unfortunally, it seems that Belgium is still unplayable.

the update on this hasn't been released yet,

Will be on a future update.