The Philosophy of The Libero

Before reading on with this thread, I implore you to accept that this thread isn't about providing you with a ready-mate tactic for any team in any league, but to elevate a concept that I believe is heavily underused, perhaps even ignored in footballing logic of modern times (in FM, in real life it is still in existence though less noticed and as a result, appraised) to promote discussion on football philosophies and concepts behind attacking and defending.

Some background: I am Napoli in my most interesting FM09 game. in my first season (9.1) I played with an attacking 4-4-2 for the sake of simplicity and found great success through my attacking partership of Milevskyi and Lavezzi, scoring 60+ goals and assisting 30~ between them.

In my second season I sold of Artem to help fund purchases of Lisandro Lopez and Giuseppe Rossi. I switched to a 3-5-2 and for large parts of the season, even without intending to the emphasis moved from 'attack with considered style' to the score more than you approach as described in press questions.

Now, in my third season I wanted to make a genuine attempt at the free-scoring with less importance placed on defence approach and amusingly enough my goal scored / conceded stats show the exact opposite: 33 goals scored in 24 games, with only 7 conceded. These stats do not tell the whole story, never before in FM09 have I seen my team play football as expansive or as throttling for the opposition sides. I'd only achieved similar levels of 'beau' in football when my teams had evolved in terms of ability in previous FM versions or with teams already at a great level such as Barcelona.

My attempt at devising a free-scoring outfit was underpinned with a lingering desire to implement the Libero successfully into FM since finding a 16yo DC/MC with high PA which started all my thoughts. First of all, I'd of course have to pinpoint already developed players who would be able to play such a role to a high degree. I identified the attributes I decreed most important: decisions, positioning, anticipation, creativity, concentration, composure, passing and first touch. physical stats were a bonus. turned out two of my current squad were already well equipped for such a role: Domenico Criscito and Federico Fazio. Criscito would be my first choice and I entered him into my team instructions as my playmaker, Fazio followed.

I went by the assumption that to have a true deep lying playmaker as a CB, you would need to release it from quite a bit of it's defensive duties and to accommodate this you would of course, have to place it in a line of 3. The rest of the team was rounded off by having 2 wing backs, 2 'box to box' midfielders, 2 winger/AM/FCs with free roles and a 'complete' forward as the ST.

The logic and philosophy behind everything was simple. I wanted mobility up front, stability with the 2 CBs behind the libero. The libero was set to FR always. As were the wing/am types and the wing backs. The essence behind the football I wanted to advocate was to pass the ball, and move and if you can't get through in the final third the impetus would be on ball retention by recycling the ball using either the MCs or the Libero. Such a system has now, in the 24 games I've played proved extremely effective in starving the opposition off the ball; I have not once had less than 55% possession in a match, and the opposition has only perhaps twice had 2 or more CCCs against me.

The Essence of the Libero Defence; I am a firm believer in attack is the best form of defence. As such, only 2 players in my team are pure defenders, and even they are only so in positioning. But the real strength came from the "mentality" of the players by correlating an offensive positioning with my Libero (always just ahead of the centre circle in the opposition half) and the 5 ahead of him (MCs, wing/ams, FC) set to close down aggressively, forcing either errors or clearances that would then usually be easily picked up by my CBs behind the libero who would then restart the attacking process. This essentially limits the opposition to counters for attacking unless they are vastly superior to my own midfield/attack in their defence/midfield in that I just waste possession everytime my team sets out to attack.

Which leads me on to The Fundamentals of Libero Offence; Wasting possession or giving it away is sin to me. Giving the ball away is giving the advantage away and in accepting that, I've moved a step forward by trying to provide my players with concepts to avoid wasteful use of the ball. My take on this is by affording each offensive player an alternative to running into defenders or just shooting. Yes of course players will NEVER, ALWAYS take the passing option and infact, that is a good thing. Passing isn't the end and by all off this, nor is possession. I implore my AM/Wings to always run with the ball, with only mixed to through balls because the point isn't just to try a killer pass whenever possible, but to get to a situation where it's the most viable option. By encouraging my AM/wings to either cut in or run to the by line, opposition defences give themselves away in either tightening or stretching; following the ball. Expected. Now, with overlapping wing backs, supporting midfielders and a striker that moves off the channels they have straight out offensive options. But crucially, recycling the ball through the Libero who takes up a very high position in the field has left the opposition defence stranded and either wide apart, or too closed in for the Libero to utilise his decisions and creativity stat by giving the ball to someone in space for him to then make the final ball. In many matches now I've seen either 3+ of the FC+AMs or FC+MCs or, FC+AM+MC+WB drawing the entirety of the defensive compartment onto them, but only the out and out world's best are able to utilise a situation like that to exploit space left behind; or that is, unless you have a libero to read the offensive situation and utilise the overview he has ahead of him to make the next necessary move.

Thanks for reading if you have done so. A quick summary: I believe in pressurising opponents, a deep lying playmaker to recycle offensive options and exploit defensive lines; as well as mobility in the final third, stability in the back for something to fall back on and last but not least, ball retention.

Basic gist of tactic: http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=5270efee94e2e03fd2db6fb9a8902bda home and away included (CA is away) though of course i don't need to tell you that the fc/am/wing settings are tweaked to the type of offensive players i have and as such you may need to adjust for your own. additionally there is no point using either tactic if you don't have a CB with the framework of abilities i described above.

Have to say that was a very interesting read. Nice to see you are having success too.

thanks, glad you thought so and took the effort to read it! i'm more than willing to share the tactic if anyone cares, but more than anything i wanted to promote discussion about the libero; footballing philosophies and so on.

Is it correct that you play with 5 FRs? What about home/away? Don't the Inter Milans, AC, Juve exploit you with their quality? Does your libero ever get picked up by an opposition player, or is this countered by the FR? I assume you are playing a short passing, slow tempo game. If you could post the player instructions for your libero that would be great.

good post, i've really enjoyed reading it and thats not the type i think the game should be, but lots of good points there was mentioned.

You are first guy I saw using this kind of tactic and I am really impressed defender as playmaker - that looks insane But I wish you good luck and if you will share it I will definitely try it

Is it correct that you play with 5 FRs? What about home/away? Don't the Inter Milans, AC, Juve exploit you with their quality? Does your libero ever get picked up by an opposition player, or is this countered by the FR? I assume you are playing a short passing, slow tempo game. If you could post the player instructions for your libero that would be great.

i've played 'good teams' a few times, real madrid twice; 1 win, 1 draw, inter milan twice; 1 win 1 draw, juventus 1 draw, ac milan draw, fiorentina huge win.

in all of those matches apart from the time i beat inter (it was the first time i tried this out) i controlled each game in terms of possession / CCC/ SoG, but my forwards seem to have regressed in their finishing ability. incidentally, am i the only one who's forwards scored a lot more in 9.1 than 9.2?

REMEMBER, these tactics may not necessarily work with your team, i specify instructions around what offensive players i believe to be in form / more useful against x/y team.

Basic gist of tactic: http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=5270efee94e2e03fd2db6fb9a8902bda home and away included (CA is away) though of course i don't need to tell you that the fc/am/wing settings are tweaked to the type of offensive players i have and as such you may need to adjust for your own. additionally there is no point using either tactic if you don't have a CB with the framework of abilities i described above.

the 'CA' version has the 'counterattack' box ticked but it's not actually a counter attack tactic, i've never really understood what that box does to your team exactly.

good post, i've really enjoyed reading it and thats not the type i think the game should be, but lots of good points there was mentioned.

could you elaborate on what you meant please?

Well, having just looked at the tactics, there only appears to be 2 FRs set for the wingers/amcs. Above you have stated that you used 5 FRs, or maybe I have mis-read it. Anyhow, just tested it with my Man Utd team away to Arsenal. Out-shot them 10-8. Kept 60% possession. But they had 6 CCCs, compared to my 3. Final score was 1-1, both goals came in the last 10 mins. Reason for the 6 CCCs is probably the fact I used Lassana Diarra as my libero (competent CB), and my wing-backs were also only competent in their position. Diarra was solid, 2 key passes, won 4 headers, 6 tackles, 12 interceptions. After a few games, and with the right players, I reckon this tactic will work wonders. Just wanted to ask your opinion Jerome on what you expect from a libero. Keep up the good work.

oh sorry i thought you meant forward runs not free roles! no, no i only use 2 free roles, the libero isn't a free role but this is only because i don't think criscito is good enough, once my youth develops in a few years - perhaps. i would consider giving the striker a free role too, if against teams who man mark.

what do you mean by expect? do you mean attributes? or his performance during a match?

edit: train diarra as a CB, he could work wonderfully well. he is a wonderful player in FM (pretty bloody good in real life too), if i wasn't playing with the handicap of only buying ita/arg bar 1 brazilian i would employ him with a free role as my libero.

I mean what do you want him to do during the match? Like do you want him breaking up play mainly, or creating chances, or just a bit of everything?

a bit of everything yes, everything he does should be linked. he will be indeed intercepting a lot because of his higher position on the pitch thus closing out clearances / early through balls, but as well as that he performs the role of playmaker when the AM's etc can't get through because he can see the whole offensive overview by being back and in the middle, so if he has the vision(creativity) should pick out and then ping a good few passes as well. job definition: ball retention, spreading play, pressurising opposition. a deep lying playmaker.

with less importance placed on defence approach and amusingly enough my goal scored / conceded stats show the exact opposite: 33 goals scored in 24 games, with only 7 conceded.

This is something I have specifically noticed. I have come to the conclusion that making sure you have a solid defense before finding ways to score goals is pretty much counter-productive. In fact, I'd say the worst kind of tactic to try to produce is a "balanced" one. (I can offer many reasons why this is so).

I don't know whether high attack tactics has the effect of forcing the opposition back and thus not allowing them attacking play in turn, but certainly in my shape, the more I attack, the less goals I concede, or at the very least, the less games I lose.

Defense to me = control of possession. In my shape I tend to defend as a team and attack as a team with every player bar the DCs involved in forward runs. The latter is strictly speaking not always true since the DCs are involved in restarting attacks from deep via interceptions of opposition balls.

I am a firm believer in attack is the best form of defence. As such, only 2 players in my team are pure defenders

Wholeheartedly agree. Interestingly, since I started using mentality as a positioning tool ONLY, I have been much happier.

Fantastic post

PS. I have attempted to introduce libero play in my shape but so far I have not had very good results. Part of the problem is that I do so within a 2 DC system (I have tried the libero as a pure DMC and only having one DC also). Whenever I play against a 442, or any shape that has more than one attacker, playing the libero makes me very vulnerable at the back. Currently I am training a few players to play Sweeper and will be trying a Sweeper-DC/Libero combo next.

do you think the sweeper is a viable position in FM with the underdeveloped ME in mind?

Great Post! Finally something worth reading on these forums =)

Just a few questions:

1. Do you feel your striker get involved enough with the current settings?

2. Whats the idea behind the direct passing, shouldn't it be mixed concidering you want the players make to best decision?

Have you tried different things here?

Just wondering here, no criticism ; )

Kinda exited about FM again, fun to try something else than the 442

Great Post! Finally something worth reading on these forums =)

Just a few questions:

1. Do you feel your striker get involved enough with the current settings?

2. Whats the idea behind the direct passing, shouldn't it be mixed concidering you want the players make to best decision?

Have you tried different things here?

Just wondering here, no criticism ; )

Kinda exited about FM again, fun to try something else than the 442

1. they are definitely involved, well; avg 15~ passes a game, but i'm not quite pleased with how productive their involvement is as of yet (lopez 11(6)apps-6g,3a is my main and best FC, nothing amazing..)

2. well, as you may have noticed the passing is split into three: short for gk(does nothing..)/cb, 1notch above mixed for Libero/mc/am, +3 from there for FB/FC

reasoning behind that is, yes i do want them to make the choice, but at the same time it's difficult to make productive use of mixed / short passing if your DC is your playmaker because then the ball is just passed around def/mid far too much unless your mentality is scarily high - so i made a compromise. the WB's however, i want to always aim to make a pass forward to Lib/Mc/Am as opposed to back to CB, hence the higher, and the FC seems to pass it straight back to Lib if it's lower than direct even if a player is in better position, so direct there again; haven't done too much tweaking in between though

1. they are definitely involved, well; avg 15~ passes a game, but i'm not quite pleased with how productive their involvement is as of yet (lopez 11(6)apps-6g,3a is my main and best FC, nothing amazing..)

2. well, as you may have noticed the passing is split into three: short for gk(does nothing..)/cb, 1notch above mixed for Libero/mc/am, +3 from there for FB/FC

reasoning behind that is, yes i do want them to make the choice, but at the same time it's difficult to make productive use of mixed / short passing if your DC is your playmaker because then the ball is just passed around def/mid far too much unless your mentality is scarily high - so i made a compromise. the WB's however, i want to always aim to make a pass forward to Lib/Mc/Am as opposed to back to CB, hence the higher, and the FC seems to pass it straight back to Lib if it's lower than direct even if a player is in better position, so direct there again; haven't done too much tweaking in between though

Understood... Testing with newcastle in the PL, have decent side (2. season) and got pique as my playmaker (should be good enough?)

Usually play with a set of at least three tacs, you feel all scenarios are covered with the two you posted?

Looks good so far, played about 10 games, and currently unbeaten although I was lucky to grab a point from united... Arsenal at home, up next =)

Understood... Testing with newcastle in the PL, have decent side (2. season) and got pique as my playmaker (should be good enough?)

Usually play with a set of at least three tacs, you feel all scenarios are covered with the two you posted?

Looks good so far, played about 10 games, and currently unbeaten although I was lucky to grab a point from united... Arsenal at home, up next =)

a key component is to use 'disappointing' on half time, if your player motivations aren't positive/ you're not winning v teamsyou're expected to beat

pique, going by his stats in 3rd season looks quite good for it though!

no not at all, i 'tweak' by changing from 3-4-3 to 5-4-1 and 5-2-3 and so forth regularly but that's very rarely but more often than not i stick to one formation the whole match.

a key component is to use 'disappointing' on half time, if your player motivations aren't positive/ you're not winning v teamsyou're expected to beat

pique, going by his stats in 3rd season looks quite good for it though!

Allright...

Just got trashed by arsenal at home, lost 4-5(!!), but three of my goals were from set pieces, and one was a huge GK mistake

I probably could have tweaked some here and there, but wantet the tactic to play out... What concerned me was that I only had 36 % posession, and passes made 66 %... This also happned against manu, the opp. getting 6-7 CCC's and over 20 shots... To vounerable against superior teams perhaps?

well, i'd have reverted to a 5-4-1 against arsenal knowing how good arsenal are on FM09 to be honest with you. i've not lost to a big team yet (played inter, roma, real madrid, ac milan, juve, fior). well i've not lost yet. but my squad has fully gelled / i've used this for a long time now, etc.

well, i'd have reverted to a 5-4-1 against arsenal knowing how good arsenal are on FM09 to be honest with you. i've not lost to a big team yet (played inter, roma, real madrid, ac milan, juve, fior). well i've not lost yet. but my squad has fully gelled / i've used this for a long time now, etc.

Probably should, yes. Will give it time, have some new players and only played 10 games, so will get better... Also need to fully understand the mechanics of the tac in order to get the best of out it and the team...

Definatly a lot of promise though, just beat kiev 1-5 away in the CL, but still under 50 % posession?

Any tips? or do you think it will get better over time?

i'd adjust the tempo then for you perhaps, watch your games where do you lose your possession / who gives the ball away most / etc, because like i said i've personally ALWAYS had over 57% possession or something like that. highest has been 71, but usually 57-63.

finished my first season using this tactic with napoli in 2010/11. won the league by 3 pts, won the CL beating arsenal in the final 2-1 and lost in the final of italian cup but i put an understrength side out. beat inter for italian super cup at the start of the season also.

overall stats:

played: 56

won: 32

drawn: 19

lost: 5 (liverpool 0-1 away, barcelona 1-2 at home, inter 0-1 in italian cup final and 0-1 away to fiorentina using a side of u20s and 0-1 away at roma, both in the serie A)

scored: 84

conceded: 22 (only 14 in the league)

Libero stats:

Criscito - 45(1) apps, 4 goals, 1 asst, 3 MOM, 7.19 Avg rating

You are first guy I saw using this kind of tactic and I am really impressed defender as playmaker - that looks insane But I wish you good luck and if you will share it I will definitely try it

The defender as a playmaker was widely used back in the day, if you think of 94' ajax you'll notice that they used neeskens as their playmaker. This is the base of the libero style, having a free roaming player in the back that is able to go up and organize the game of the team. This is not to be confused with the sweeper style, that is a man staying in the back to sweep any free balls, the libero will take that and set up the offence of the team.

The joy of joys.

Two of my DCs managed to train as Sweepers and I immediately implemented a system with (1) a Sweeper playing back and (2) a Sweeper/DC/DMC playing forward from the DC position. The forward playing DC adds a lot to build up play and is solid defensively at the same time...during the last game he was pumping in through balls around the edge of the area one minute and intercepting long balls around the edge of his own area the next. Brilliant!

iamjerome, may i know if u use any specific opposition instructions?

iamjerome, may i know if u use any specific opposition instructions?

usually none at all, i play with hard tackling as it is and i don't want my team to deter from the closing down settings etc. so i'd like to think that my tactic covers 'everything'....apart from when i'm playing against a team with an aerial beast then i usually set the weakers to be put onto their weaker foot. no more.

The joy of joys.

Two of my DCs managed to train as Sweepers and I immediately implemented a system with (1) a Sweeper playing back and (2) a Sweeper/DC/DMC playing forward from the DC position. The forward playing DC adds a lot to build up play and is solid defensively at the same time...during the last game he was pumping in through balls around the edge of the area one minute and intercepting long balls around the edge of his own area the next. Brilliant!

how are you implementing this? a SW and a DC directly in front of him, or?

how are you implementing this? a SW and a DC directly in front of him, or?

This is dependent on two things (1) the shape I play against and (2) whether my 2 MCs are on Often FWRs or not.

If playing against a 2-striker attack I play a SW and a DC directly in front of him with often FWRs, and Mixed RWB and TTBs.

If playing against a 1-striker attack AND/OR my MCs are on often FWRs, I play a SW and a DMC, essentially a DC-less setup.

In practice I find that both players "double-team" as a unit, i.e. the Sweeper acts as interceptor who nods or passes to the DC-DMC who then starts the next attack. When an opposing player manages to latch onto a ball and starts running they "shadow" him together, mostly eliminating any kind of effective pass he could make.

In attack the DC-DMC makes a forward run as well and takes up position outside the area in no man's land. When I make an unsuccessful attack and the ball is headed away, the DC-DMC intercepts it and restarts the attack immediately by passing to one of the wide players or trying a long shot.

Basically then I use the SW as an out and out defensive player with the DC-DMC being the libero.

PS. I have two players to choose from that are rated to play SW/DC and two players that can play SW/DC/DMC/MC ... I use this last lot to play the DC-DMC role since they are obviously comfortable being "box to box"-ers.

could you upload this please? i'd like to take a look, sounds very interesting. what do you have beside the sw/dc? a dr/dl or 2 dc's? or do you ignore them and just go for the wingbacks? other than that, my interest is piqued!

I am just too lazy to set up an uploading space for the tac but I will put images here if you want. I use a dr/dl combo.

That is the "playing against lone striker version"

That is the "playing against 2-striker version"

I vary the positioning of the of the DC/DMC and the AMR/AML depending on situations in matches.

fascinating, fascinating. you sacrifice an extra defender for the AM and still find success? i'm going to have to give this a try!

But that is an '08 screenshot

he's not using any side or curved arrows, i reckon it's still workable

fascinating, fascinating. you sacrifice an extra defender for the AM and still find success? i'm going to have to give this a try!

I suppose just showing you the actual positioning shape is just half the story. I am not sacrificing the extra defender for the AMC. The AMC is integral. I am playing the DC as a DC/DMC...thus a player playing a dual role...that of being a central defender and occupying the zone strikers play in when not with the ball, but pushing up into a forward space when my team has the ball. It's all about filling space.

In practice the Sweeper and DC/DMC sit on top of each other in defense (not at all as far away as pictured), creating a 2-man closing down team. If for instance the opposition manage to release a wide player down one of my flanks, and my fullback on that side is in an advanced attacking position, then usually the SW & DC/DMC close down the flank together...they both try to stop him. Of course they are leaving a HUGH gap themselves, which is then supposed to be filled by the Fullback on the opposite side. This gives the out of position fullback time to track back, at which point the Sweeper moves back to a central position.

Yes it is a pity about the side arrows because I would have liked the two MCs to be moving sideways....BUT...as I have discovered, the empty spaces behind the AM-F/LRs are acting as perfect "traps", suckering the opposition into sending their fullbacks into running forward, thereby leaving my wide players free.

yeah, i understand that but what role does the AMC provide to you?

yeah, i understand that but what role does the AMC provide to you?

Right, the AMC is the attacking fulcrum, pretty much the traditional playmaker role, but....that isn't really true.

Generally speaking my defense is centered around the two MCs. It is their job to stop the opposition going anywhere. When they are successful, they send the ball to the AMC, or one of the wingers. So really, both wingers and the AMC then become playmakers (the ones getting the assists), the AMC through the middle, the wingers down the side... The AMC is my second highest goal scorer by position also.

The biggest specific difference between the AMC and the MCs is that the AMC is not set to close down so highly as I want him to "stand off" a little so he can be in a good position to receive a forward pass from the DMC/MCs in order to then be able to attempt a good through ball.

In general play (when I am NOT with the ball), the AMC serves an important function in terms of zonal marking...for example, if playing against a 442 system (you have to try to picture this scenario)...and either the opposition Fullback or winger is running into the empty side space available in my shape, BOTH MCs go closing him down. This leaves an obvious gap in the middle which is then supposed to be filled by the AMC by standing near the closest MC in their tactic to where the ball is. This then makes it difficult for their runner to find space (1) forward (I have a fullback on that side) or (2) laterally (I have an AMC on that side) or (3) diagonally (A DMC is waiting there) and can only go back or attempt a LONG ball to the other side of the pitch (where I have no-one), in which case it gives the fullback on the other side enough time to push forward to intercept. Whilst within this conundrum I want the two MCs to either dispossess him of the ball or force him back completely.

At some point I'll try to get some in game shots of actual scenarios.

he's not using any side or curved arrows, i reckon it's still workable

No but the arrows as depicted on the FM08 positions screen are COMPLETELY different to the arrows on the FM09 screen. On 08 they were directions as to where you wanted the player to be on/off the ball, in 09 they are simply whether the player should be making forward runs rarely, medium or often.

I apologise for not commenting on the discussion of the thread, I am only skim reading, but keep it up as this is an interesting discussion.

apologies for digging the grave here for this thread but i've decided to have a go with a libero at 9.3

i'm man city, start of the second season. i played 4-3-3 in the first and ended second but the system only really got the best out of the front three rather than the team on it's whole. i want to revert back to a controlling, choking sort of system. for this i will be playing 3-5-2 (wing backs, 2mcs and an AM) with the central of the 3 centre backs being a libero. i'm currently in the process of trying to sign mathieu bodmer who i've ascertained to be perfect for the role i describe in the OP. i will report back once i've signed him and get some matches underway.

edit - as a side note, i'm also devoting a lot of time to training up a couple of regens into being tailor made for the libero role.

Is the libero idea really dead? Just from a philosophical point of view, a libero is a player who starts in a very defensive position and then moves into midfield (and beyond) to create. Even prior to 3-5-2's emergence, Liverpool were using a ball-carrying central defender within a 4-4-2 (eg Thompson and Hanson). Sacchi used Baresi in this role (and Costacurta but less frequently) in a 4-4-2. Capello has used Ferdinand in this role for England (4-4-2). Benitez loves Agger stepping forward (4-2-3-1). I'm watching Pique just now performing the role for Spain, as he does for Barcelona (4-1-3-2). With the changes in tactics over the past couple of decades, perhaps the difference is that the libero has just moved into central defence while one of the central defenders has pushed back up into athe 'old' centre-half role from which he originally came?

Perhaps your idea would be more easily implemented by emulating such a split central defensive partnership which is also protected by a DMC?

Is the libero idea really dead? Just from a philosophical point of view, a libero is a player who starts in a very defensive position and then moves into midfield (and beyond) to create. Even prior to 3-5-2's emergence, Liverpool were using a ball-carrying central defender within a 4-4-2 (eg Thompson and Hanson). Sacchi used Baresi in this role (and Costacurta but less frequently) in a 4-4-2. Capello has used Ferdinand in this role for England (4-4-2). Benitez loves Agger stepping forward (4-2-3-1). I'm watching Pique just now performing the role for Spain, as he does for Barcelona (4-1-3-2). With the changes in tactics over the past couple of decades, perhaps the difference is that the libero has just moved into central defence while one of the central defenders has pushed back up into athe 'old' centre-half role from which he originally came?

Perhaps your idea would be more easily implemented by emulating such a split central defensive partnership which is also protected by a DMC?

i think you're mostly right in all the examples you mention, pique is a perfect recent adaptation definitely - 'piquenbauer' . i'm not sure i ever claimed the libero concept is dead, but i don't think that it's a popular mode of choice in centre back / halves if you consider that those are most of examples there of the use of one really in the past decade and half anyway, i digress. the real point is i'm a big fan of such a system.

i'm a bit nervy about trying the libero in a 2 CB system, but i may adjust my team to try that next year as i've already shaped my 23 man squad. the essence of what i'm trying to do is leave 2 men to cover and one centre back to essentially perform the "pirlo" role of recycling possession as well as offering a defender with offensive oversight (through sitting back and having high creativity) of my team's play.

quick update, so far so good. 4-0 wins over liverpool and bolton. 2-1 over ac milan. 6 games into the season, 18 scored and 2 conceded. goals are coming from all over my team, the play style is expansive and cohesive already. everything's going better than planned, far quicker than i imagined really.

yea i had great success when playing short passing by setting the centre backs to attacking mentalities

i think you're mostly right in all the examples you mention, pique is a perfect recent adaptation definitely - 'piquenbauer' . i'm not sure i ever claimed the libero concept is dead, but i don't think that it's a popular mode of choice in centre back / halves if you consider that those are most of examples there of the use of one really in the past decade and half anyway, i digress. the real point is i'm a big fan of such a system.

I think the problem has been that very few teams are capable of playing the possession football which enables a central defender to step up into midfield. Very few teams have ever been able to do so - in fact, most of the teams which do so successfully have gone down into footballing legend (Ajax under Michels, Dynamo Kyev under Valentino Lob., Paisley's Liverpool, Sacchi's Milan etc). For most other teams, it's been a case of throwing the fullbacks forward. Sorry if I misread the first sentence of the OP, I thought that was the point you were making It's actually something I use within the game as I'm a huge fan of the 'Liverpool way', however I actually end up with something similar to an asymmetric 1-3-3-3 when attacking because of the way mentalities influence players' positioning.

i'm a bit nervy about trying the libero in a 2 CB system, but i may adjust my team to try that next year as i've already shaped my 23 man squad. the essence of what i'm trying to do is leave 2 men to cover and one centre back to essentially perform the "pirlo" role of recycling possession as well as offering a defender with offensive oversight (through sitting back and having high creativity) of my team's play.

Good luck with it I think the libero in a 2 CB defence has to be used sensibly - it's not always going to be appropriate (control/attacking tactics would be where it kicks in). However, I'm always wary of 3-5-2 because of the demands on the WBs. However, of course, in the game, WBs get something of an easier ride (in physical demands at least) than they do in real life and the AI does seem to love 4-4-2 in the English leagues so 3-5-2 if set up well will dominate the midfield tactically without many of the drawbacks it ought to have, especially considering that the AI is somewhat limited in how it 'analyses' match situations.

Where the libero in a 2 CB defence would really pay dividends is against formations with only 1 striker. Mourinho almost got it working for Chelsea, but he's much more defensively inclined and pragmatic than many coaches so he obviously limited his 'mobile' centre-back's attacking instincts, but it does give a handle on how to set it up from a defensive point of view.

In any case, all the best and it's certainly made me wonder about whether 3-5-2 is due a revival

zebedee who did mourinho use as a libeiro?

carvalho, sort of but makelele was more the person who recycled possession in the mourinho chelsea team than any centre back to be honest.

was actually having a conversation with my Dad about the loss of the libero in the modern game

jerome, could you please show a screenie of your liberos player instructons

i can't load up FM til tonight, but first of all, all the levels are highly relative to the rest of the team. this is pretty much what i will aim to do in most games where i want to take control (which will be 90% of matches bar teams who's offence you have to fear despite who you are or have) and suffocate the opposition;

mentality framework: 2 DCs+ FCd=10, Libero+FCa=15, rest of the team are on 12.

CF framework: GK+2 DCs=5, WBs=10, Libero+MCs= 14, AMC+FCs=20.

Passing style: GK+2 DCs + 2 MCs = 5. Rest of the team (libero + wbs + am + fc) = 8.

Closing down: 2GK + 2 CBs + 2 WBs = 8. Libero + 2 MCs = 12. AM+FCs = 15.

i play to width of 12 and with a defensive line of 14/15, which will be pushed back dependent on how quick the opposition forwards are.

rest of the instructions for the libero: Forward runs - often and through balls - mixed, rest to rarely. no tick boxes ticked apart from perhaps free role but i haven't gotten to trying that just yet in 9.3, will do when i next play but i've been implementing this gradually.

new link plz?

carvalho, sort of but makelele was more the person who recycled possession in the mourinho chelsea team than any centre back to be honest.

Aye. If he'd have given Carvalho a more attacking brief then you'd have seen a libero at Chelsea. But as it was, defensive pragmatism won out and you had two central stoppers with a floating stopper between them.