Help understanding attributes

Hello all,

I was wondering if someone could help me understand players attributes. I could use any attribute as an example, but I'll pick Pace, and let's assume the player in question has a score of 20. Which one of the explanations is the most accurate?

1. The score of 20 is in comparison to the rest of the squad only.
   
2. The score of 20 is in comparison to the entire database of all players loaded into the game.
   
3. The score of 20 is not actually accurate but is merely the coaches perception of his talent (in this case, perception of speed), so in effect, it becomes the comparison to all other players that the coaches know about or have coached themselves.
   

If it's point 1, then that creates a few problems, such as making it tricky to know how fast your player is compared to an opposition defender, and if that was the case, the player's score would decrease to 19 if I signed a player that was actually faster. I don't see that happening, so I'm assuming it's not point 1.

If it's point 2, this makes a little bit more sense, so direct comparisons between opposition players can be made, but if I add an extra nation or leagues into the game that contain faster players, I'd see my own players stats decrease, which I don't see. Also, as new regens get created, there would bound to be a new 15 year old with ridiculous pace created, which could reduce the stats of thousands of other players. So, I don't think it's this option either.

If it's point 3, that obviously has many problems, and is the coach saying "He is the fastest player I've ever seen, therefore I'm presenting him to you as 20". I don't think FM has ever presented the attributes to the gamer as the coaches interpretation, and it also has the same effect as point 1, when I sign a faster player, other players stats would get adjusted. I don't think that happens, so it's not this option either.

That's all the options ruled out.

The final possibility is that the numbers are fixed, and not comparative at all, so if a player can run 100 metres in 10 seconds, he's labelled as 20, and if a player can run it in 11 seconds, he's a 19. But there would need to be a line drawn somewhere, where two players both score 20 but one is actually slower than the other. This makes it tricky for the gamer to know who would be the better player. (obviously, the example is only looking at one attribute, but applied to all attributes, it'd be tricky to know who is better if there's different gradients of "20's".). Also, this still has the same problem. If Usain Bolt is in the game, he'd score a 20 because he can run 100m in 9.5 seconds ish. If a regen gets created that could run 100m in 7 sseconds, he'd be a 20, but would Bolt still be a 20? If so, there is a huge difference in actual ability but with the same score. How can the user make a decision between them?

Equally, if 20 is the maximum, so is the equivilent of 100%, then a player with Passing of 20 should never miss a pass? Unless the attribute isn't actually Passing, instead it's a score of how accurate a pass would be under certain situations, such as no opposition pressure, players within easy reach, ball under control, not a pressure moment of a game, etc. However, if this is the case, then scoring 20 for Passing is misleading, as obviously some gamers will take that on face value and assume he's an exceptional passer (when in reality, if his composure, creativity, vision, dual-footedness, etc are all poor, then he would be a poor passer).

Does anyone know how attributes work, and can provide some clarity?

As a side note, I rarely see huge differences in pace on the 3D game screen. I can run 100m in around 15 seconds, so I'd give myself a 9-11 in Pace. I'd obviously give Usain Bolt a 20. If we were running for the same ball, I'd expect him to breeze past me easily and quickly. I rarely see this in games, even when Ronaldo is running at Mertesacker. Why is this?

Attributes aren't based on anything. A player with 20 for pace has 20 for pace and is the fastest player in the gameworld. In future it would be great (IMO) to have attributes based on coach ratings, like PA/CA stars currently, but it doesn't work like that in FM15.

Think of the best passer in the world IRL ... he would have 20 passing.. anyone in the game as good a passer as him would have 20 and then it scales down essentially..

The complexity comes in when you take into account it is no only the passing attribute that will determine the ability to complete a pass in a match, but also vision, composure etc.. you get the idea..

No-one will complete every single pass every single time.. not even the best in the world.

Attributes aren't based on anything. A player with 20 for pace has 20 for pace and is the fastest player in the gameworld. In future it would be great (IMO) to have attributes based on coach ratings, like PA/CA stars currently, but it doesn't work like that in FM15.

That's exactly my point. If a regen comes along who is faster, would that existing player get downgraded to 19. Or are you saying that FM essentially caps a player as only being able to be as fast as 20 and nobody can ever be faster. If that's the case, it doesn't allow footballer evolution.

For example, fat Ronaldo was once considered the world's best and I assume had a few 20's. However, some players are now faster, more skilful and a better finisher than him, but in FM, they'd have to be given 20's and shown as equals, not better.

That's exactly my point. If a regen comes along who is faster, would that existing player get downgraded to 19. Or are you saying that FM essentially caps a player as only being able to be as fast as 20 and nobody can ever be faster. If that's the case, it doesn't allow footballer evolution.

The player wouldn't get downgraded to 19; it doesn't work like that. Any attribute of 20 is the best that is possible to be. If a player has 20 for pace, no-one can be faster.

Think of the best passer in the world IRL ... he would have 20 passing.. anyone in the game as good a passer as him would have 20 and then it scales down essentially..

The complexity comes in when you take into account it is no only the passing attribute that will determine the ability to complete a pass in a match, but also vision, composure etc.. you get the idea..

No-one will complete every single pass every single time.. not even the best in the world.

Then should passing be an attribute? If it doesn't actually mean passing ability, then scrap it, and just have composure, vision, technique, and abilities to deal with pressure, and those will dictate the passing range and accuracy levels.

The player wouldn't get downgraded to 19; it doesn't work like that. Any attribute of 20 is the best that is possible to be. If a player has 20 for pace, no-one can be faster.

I do understand, Hunt3r. I'm just trying to get my head around the fact that there is then a hard coded maximum talent that a FM footballer can be. A regen can only ever be as fast as Ronaldo, or as skilful as Messi or as strong as Akinfenwa. It didn't allow evolution, doesn't allow future players to be better.

Then should passing be an attribute? If it doesn't actually mean passing ability, then scrap it, and just have composure, vision, technique, and abilities to deal with pressure, and those will dictate the passing range and accuracy levels.

Passing (same as finishing and every other technical attribute) should absolutely be an attribute. It's how accurate a player's passing is on a scale of 1 - 20. Like basically any attribute, other attributes affect the player, such as those that Welshace mentions.

I do understand, Hunt3r. I'm just trying to get my head around the fact that there is then a hard coded maximum talent that a FM footballer can be. A regen can only ever be as fast as Ronaldo, or as skilful as Messi or as strong as Akinfenwa. It didn't allow evolution, doesn't allow future players to be better.

I don't know what Messi's PA is, but it probably isn't/wasn't at the maximum possible. So it is possible to be better overall. I understand what you're saying though.