Tutoring problem.

I've always found tutoring as the best and fastest way of developing players and try to ensure I have a nucleus of players that can do the job, have high determination, a good personality and to a lesser extent some preferable player preferred moves. To me it's the single most sure fire way of forming your squad into rounded, determined and balanced players. The first time I tutor a player ( if his personality isn't the best ) I always pick the mentor off the pitch option, to attempt to change him, and it's always a player with high determination.

IMO, the earlier you can change their personality and determination then the greater chance they have of reaching their full potential.

I have a player who is the lynch pin of my defence, has 16 determination is described as fairly determined but is outspoken. Now I've had players who have been outspoken, even volatile with their media handling and they are still willing to tutor. After setting up my tutoring, I suddenly realised that every time I'd asked this player recently ( 6 times ), he said he didn't get on with player x and I had to wait until I asked him again.

I've had this before but never on such a consistent basis. So I ran a little test, saved the game under a different name and tried to see if he just didn't get on with the players I'd ask him to tutor. Now this player is natural as a DL,DR,DC,DmC and is accomplished as an MR,ML,MC and AMR, so the list of players he could tutor was very long, 15 in total.

He flatly refused every single one of them saying he didn't get on with any of them. The weird thing is, he is absolutely vital and nearly everyone in my first team lists him under their favoured personnel and under good relationship say they believe he is vital to the team. He has been at the club for 3 seasons now and I have only once managed to get him to tutor someone.

Anyone else had such an awkward and difficult player? I'm beginning to think I should get rid of him. He appears to absolutely hate everyone, but everyone loves him.

I have spent a fair bit of time looking at tutoring.

Unlike you, my goal wasn't to improve such things as determination. I was completely and utterly focussed with either the change of personality, (or the transfer of ppm's), and an increase of determination was simply a by-product of the personality change, (which is of course made up of individual attribute changes such as determination).

My goal is always to get the player to Model Pro. (*) Quite often this isn't realistic and instead I will have to be satisfied with a player becoming Resolute, (certainly not a bad 2nd option), or even Driven, (aka ultra determined).

What a player needs to develop to their potential is not determination at all, (although this has other benefits), but is actually professionalism and ambition. If you have a whole squad that is Driven for example, (so that's untra-determined for those of you who don't know), then it might be masking a serious lack of both professionalism and/or ambition within the squad. This can impact on individual players, but also in certain circumstances the team as a whole.

When I look at a potential tutor, determination is honestly neither here nor there. It's all about personality.

I currently have 10 Model Pro's in my San Marino squad and an additional 3 players who have been Model Pro's in the past and who are now Leaders. This isn't by accident. This is completely by design. Of these 13 Model Pro players, the determination levels are listed as follows.

13, 19, 12, 11, 13, 13 10, 12, 13, 19, 14, 14, 14.

I obviously have other players who have higher determination.

I have 13 players currently listed at Resolute and by very definition this means that they have a minimum determination attribute of 15.

I also have 4 players who are classed as Driven, which has a minimum determination value of 20.

I have never had an issue such as that which you are describing with a Model Pro, (for obvious reasons), but I have had a similar issue with a Driven player, (where in particular it was the ppm that I was after).

The problem with Driven players is that the drivers are only Det 20 and Amb 10-20. It means that they might very well have very low professionalism. (If their professionalism was better they might be classed as something else)..

What's the betting that this player has Professionalism/Temperament issues?

My hint is look at the personality as a whole rather than just determination in isolation. Having good determination but a poor personality is not someone you want as a tutor at all.

[Edit]

(*) Only because I have never yet seen a Model Citizen.

I've always found tutoring as the best and fastest way of developing players and try to ensure I have a nucleus of players that can do the job, have high determination, a good personality and to a lesser extent some preferable player preferred moves. To me it's the single most sure fire way of forming your squad into rounded, determined and balanced players. The first time I tutor a player ( if his personality isn't the best ) I always pick the mentor off the pitch option, to attempt to change him, and it's always a player with high determination.

IMO, the earlier you can change their personality and determination then the greater chance they have of reaching their full potential.

I have a player who is the lynch pin of my defence, has 16 determination is described as fairly determined but is outspoken. Now I've had players who have been outspoken, even volatile with their media handling and they are still willing to tutor. After setting up my tutoring, I suddenly realised that every time I'd asked this player recently ( 6 times ), he said he didn't get on with player x and I had to wait until I asked him again.

I've had this before but never on such a consistent basis. So I ran a little test, saved the game under a different name and tried to see if he just didn't get on with the players I'd ask him to tutor. Now this player is natural as a DL,DR,DC,DmC and is accomplished as an MR,ML,MC and AMR, so the list of players he could tutor was very long, 15 in total.

He flatly refused every single one of them saying he didn't get on with any of them. The weird thing is, he is absolutely vital and nearly everyone in my first team lists him under their favoured personnel and under good relationship say they believe he is vital to the team. He has been at the club for 3 seasons now and I have only once managed to get him to tutor someone.

Anyone else had such an awkward and difficult player? I'm beginning to think I should get rid of him. He appears to absolutely hate everyone, but everyone loves him.

so you signed squidward

Ademac, post#13 in the Ajax thread explains tutoring:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/380395-Ajax-When-Real-Life-Meets-Football-Manager-FM14

As Jimbokav said, you want your youngsters to have high professionalism (good for development and easy to manage in general) and ambition (good for development and setting goals). It is often difficult to deduce both Professionalism & Ambition by the Personality & Media Handling Style, so generally the way to go is to have tutors of the professional type (fairly pro, pro, model pro), Spirited (above average/good professionalism and good pressure) and Resolute (good professionalism & determination). Since you are so interested in Determination, look for Resolute tutors.

Until proven otherwise by use of editors, I am guessing that your defender probably has low Professionalism and other issues as well (although in theory he could also be badly matched with the specific several youngsters). So I wouldn't want him to tutor anybody. F. Determined is generally a poor personality anyway: there are several personality attributes, and a personality of F.Determined more or less means that only Determination has a high value.

I have read up a lot when it comes to tutoring. Most of what I gleaned from the threads I read ( including the one you have linked ), was that determination was important. I didn't mean to say that Determination is the be all and end all of everything to me, I appreciate that there are many other factors going on as well. TBH I have read so many threads, stickys on a range of topics in the last six months that I have forgotten a lot of what I learned. With such a wealth of info in the different forums on here it is easy to make the occasional slip up.

I'll go back and read up some more. But what your both saying makes a lot of sense. I have used editors in the past, mainly as a shortcut. I know how to do most things correctly and how to find the info out you require ingame from coaches, scouts etc but I didn't have the time. I do now, and whilst I'm very tempted to fire up genie scout and check his hidden stats, I know I will feel like it's cheating and it will ruin this save for me. I know you weren't suggesting I do that btw.

I'll definitely be re-reading those threads though. Cheers guys.

ademac. That Ajax thread is the business and I can't be the only person who uses it regularly as a reference point.

Something that I find a little harder to get my head round is the Media Handling Guide, (that I think Lyssien possibly created actually).

This mixes in both the personality guide and the media guide and makes it easier to identify some of the hidden stats. It would probably be really worthwhile looking at the player in question and see what indicators there are.

ademac.

Something that I find a little harder to get my head round is the Media Handling Guide, (that I think Lyssien possibly created actually).

No, I created the first personality and tutoring threads a long-long time ago. A lot things have changed since, improvements were also suggested by other members, and thus we now have the Ajax and the Ultimate Personality Guide threads that are not my work. They are better and more modern than my work.