Improving a 460 Approach

Hello,

While I will detail my current tactic in this post I did not want to create this in the Upload / Download sub forum as it is not a "download this and win everything" tactic / approach which is prevalent up there.

I am much more interested in discussing how to improve on what is now my base 460 tactic, different possible approaches and strikerless tactics in general.

Tiny, Quick Background

In my current career game I am taking part in one of the challenges found on the "Challenges and xxxxx" board. I am not making any transfers and relying solely on my youth intakes.

My initial couple of youth intakes were underwhelming and those kids that were promising were mainly defenders or midfielders.

This has lead me down the path of devising a 460 tactic. While doing this for the past season, it has also been fun to change the clubs outlook from top to bottom, retraining strikers to be attacking midfielders, focusing training on attributes more appropriate for the way we are now playing etc...

Anyway.

My current tactic is this;

My thought process behind the setup.

This is currently untweaked from the tactics creator, except one setting on the AMC as noted.

GK - Standard goalkeeper. Nothing fancy.

DCs - Both are Limited Defender on Defend duty. Again, nothing fancy.

FBs - Both on Wing Back, Support duty. Due to the initial narrowness of the formation, both are invited to provide width if possible

DM - Anchor Man. Sits in front of the DCs to protect if a FB has gone forward.

MCs - Central Midfielders on Attack duty. With the Anchor Man staying home, both are instructed to get foward and flood the final third

AMC - Attacking Midfielder on Support duty. Hold Up Ball set to 'Yes'. Planned to be the pivot, with both MCs going past him and both outside AMCs making runs to offer options and give him room to operate.

AMCL & AMCR - Inside Forwards on Attack duty. Run at the defense with the ball and make runs off the ball to give the man in possession options.

Team Instructions

Style - Rigid

Strategy - Counter

Passing Style - More Direct

Creative Freedom - More Disciplined

Closing Down - Default

Tackling - Default

Marking - Default

Crossing - Default

Roaming - Default

IMPORTANT - I also always use the shout "Work Ball Into Box" as this reduces everyone's Long Shots to rarely, otherwise 50-75% of my chances are long range efforts and players do not look for a pass and get closer to goal.

Match Prep I have set at Defensive Positioning.

(All set piece instructions have been left to default)

The thought process on these is that I want the players to do as instructed, drop back to defend and then get the ball forward quickly on the counter attack.

I have been playing like this for about 18 months now, and while it has been working well (#) I definitely feel it is not playing optimally.

(#) Last year I was predicted 10th (in 18 team league) and finished 5th missing the playoffs by 1 point. This year predicted 7th, currently 8th.

Interestingly, how I envisioned it in my head is not how it played out. In the full season I played it, the AMC (who I set up thinking would be the creator) had 19 goals and 2 assists in 35 games. The Inside Forward AMCs scored approx 6 and assisted on 8 each (approximate due to several players fulfilling the role over the course of the season). The MCs contributed 10 goals (2 were penalties), 3 assists and 7 goals, 10 assists each.

Goal Breakdown

Assist Breakdown - No surprise that most assists come from the central areas.

(Worth noting that for approx 6-8 games I used this exact tactic, but with the Attacking strategy - similar results and I reverted back so should not

skew anything here).

Now, my team is a very young team and they are not technically fantastic (yet), but I would like to have a general discussion on changes you would make to this approach, and why you would make them.

Questions based on my current indecision!

* For a 460 tactic, keep the formation I currently have? Push the AMCL & AMCR out to AML & AMR?

* Alter the DR & DL to Defend duty?

* Are the MCs too cavalier?

* How can I get the AMCL & AMCR into better scoring areas?

I have thick skin, so please be perfectly honest in where you think this can be improved.

What would you recommend to change / tweak / radically alter?

If there are any other screenshots you would like to see, I would be happy to grab them.

Note:

Obviously I have not included any of my players information in this post as I am more interested in the generalities of the questions and discussions, but if anyone is interested in the extra layer of detail to enable a discussion I will happily take screenshots and post them.

not really anything constructive, but i imagine the reasoning behind your central amc being the prodominant scorer is due to the wider amcs being instructed to dribble and break through the defence, causing them move into wider positions between the opposition fb and cb, and your amc is probably often able to receive a cut back in the box, but i'm sure you know better than me on this anyway, if this is the case, your central amc could still easily the dominant creative force in the side, sliding throughballs to his teammates, but in the end scoring as he receives cutback passes. Interesting formation though and i intend on giving it a whirl, though im surprised you use a direct counter attacking style. I'll probably use a more fluid possession game, given the midfield dominance, and the lack of a striker gives me the impression that quick break-aways are difficult.

The only thing that immediately strikes me, is that with 2 CM(a) and 2 players in the AMC slots as IF, they are going to run into the same spaces? Do you find it looks conjested in that area when you watch full games? You could potentially use wide play instructions to try and move the inside forwards, but could still be an issue. You could conside moving them to AMR/AML as you say, or could even do half way (go asymetric - move one, balance it out with having asymetric full back instructions).

One aside - why would you always use the shout to reduce everyones long shots to rarely, rather than just changing them in the individual instructions? (that way you dont need to keep selecting the shout?)

You're conceding a lot of goals, particularly from wide areas.

I'd guess you get overloaded a lot at full back, or the opposing full back has acres of time and space to play in.

I'd try to tighten up at the back first of all.

Maybe by making your CMs a bit more conservative.

Maybe move the outer AMCs to AMR/L and have them track the opposing fullbacks.

One aside - why would you always use the shout to reduce everyones long shots to rarely, rather than just changing them in the individual instructions? (that way you dont need to keep selecting the shout?)

This has been on my mental to do list for a while, but I forget. Done now!

not really anything constructive, but i imagine the reasoning behind your central amc being the prodominant scorer is due to the wider amcs being instructed to dribble and break through the defence, causing them move into wider positions between the opposition fb and cb, and your amc is probably often able to receive a cut back in the box, but i'm sure you know better than me on this anyway, if this is the case, your central amc could still easily the dominant creative force in the side, sliding throughballs to his teammates, but in the end scoring as he receives cutback passes. Interesting formation though and i intend on giving it a whirl, though im surprised you use a direct counter attacking style. I'll probably use a more fluid possession game, given the midfield dominance, and the lack of a striker gives me the impression that quick break-aways are difficult.

The counter attacking & rigidity of the system is more of a relic from when we were newly promoted and out of our depth. The time I am taking here is a perfect chance to rethink it.

You're conceding a lot of goals, particularly from wide areas.

I'd guess you get overloaded a lot at full back, or the opposing full back has acres of time and space to play in.

I'd try to tighten up at the back first of all.

Maybe by making your CMs a bit more conservative.

Maybe move the outer AMCs to AMR/L and have them track the opposing fullbacks.

Agreed, and indeed my first move has been to switch the fullbacks to Fullback Defend. I have also move the Inside Forwards out to the AMR / AML slots. Ony two games in to the changes, but decent signs.

Appreciate the feedback. Sometimes you don't see what is directly in front of you until someone points it out.

Anyone else out there using / trying a strikerless formation?

I would love to hear how others are approaching it.

* Are the MCs too cavalier?

This was my first thought. When you couple this with a rigid philosophy, I think you're splitting your team, even though it looks like you have players positioned well in the middle. When in attack, are you seeing something like this?:

----IF-----IF----

--CMa-AM-CMa--

WB-------------WB

------Anch------

----CB----CB----

Because that's what I'm seeing in my head based on those roles. Perhaps this is why your attack is satisfactory. What kinds of goals are you conceding? Might they be counter attacks? Quick counters down the flanks than getting a pass or cross into the middle before your defense is able to reset?

I think you might try some different roles for the MCs. Either as CM-support or maybe a box to box or something like that if you still want them to push forward. Moving the IFs into wide positions might go hand in hand with using B2B types. I think it would also help you defensively and your opponents need to be more honest to defend your wide men, making it harder for them to counter down the flanks.

If you do move the IFs wide, you might also make your FBs slightly more defensive. Maybe fullback support? Or wingback defend? From what I've seen, fullbacks do still contribute even when on defensive settings, so I think these options will still offer the attacking wide and balance you seek.

So, my guess is this: MCs on CMs or B2B, IFs set to AML/AMR positions, and FBs set to FBs or WBd. I make no guarantees with these suggestions, but I think you'll find a better defensive structure while still having some potency going forward. With this setup you can stay rigid and countering. With no players forward, you're inviting the opposition to come out, away from their goal. So countering with quick attackers running from deep should be effective.