2050: Observations of a Long Term Game and a Couple Suggestions To Improve World Cup

While FM is largely about club football, it is also about immersion into your gameworld. This necessitates a healthy amount of attention on perfecting the international experience of the game, especially when it comes to major tournaments. Therefore, I find it odd when the game's biggest competition of all, the World Cup, is sometimes treated as an afterthought.

The following are some observations from a long-term FM game, simmed through 2050. I love this game and think everyone (SI and its researchers) do an exceptional job on it. These suggestions are merely an attempt to facilitate dialogue on an isolated set of issues to make a great product even better. They concern how the World Cup is presented in the game, especially in long-term files. I believe these suggestions may lead to a better version of the World Cup in future games and add to the sense of immersion that helps make FM so great.

1. Improve host selection:

It appears that the mechanism used to determine World Cup hosts in FM is based around a combination of population and prior history. Population explains why China has frequently been made a candidate in my game, while prior history explains why some countries with less population and infrastructure (Uruguay and Mexico) are still bidders in FM.

SUGGESTION: In long-term games, retool host selection. If the last two decades are any indication, FIFA strongly prefers countries with large commercial possibilities, regardless of past experience hosting the tournament or even footballing pedigree. USA 94, Korea/Japan 02, and even the upcoming bids for 2022 (Qatar, Australia, USA) all demonstrate FIFAs desire to aggressively pursue untapped commercial markets. I believe the hosts for future World Cups in FM should reflect this preference rather than generating candidates who historically hosted the tournament (Uruguay, Mexico), but do not have the requisite infrastructure to host the 21st century version of the tournament. It's a telling fact that IRL, both Uruguay and Mexico failed to even enter bids when their confederations have been eligible for recent World Cups. This suggests that the mechanism that determines hosts should exclude them as potential candidates in future versions of FM. In my game, Mexico are about to stage a record FOURTH World Cup in 2050. Meanwhile, more economically robust countries like China have been overlooked since my gameworld started, even though they would realistically be far more attractive venues. If possible, a reward for long-term players could be including new candidates into the mix after a few decades instead of always seeing the usual suspects. Seeing a country like India bid for the 2054 World Cup would make perfect sense to me in FM, given the country's immense population, commercial potential, and assumed greater globalization of the sport.

2. Improve Stadiums

In real life, the World Cup is the pinnacle of football and the host nation always provides a proper stage with large, usually modern stadia. Many of the stadiums are new or at least substantially refurbished for the tournament and all meet FIFA's required minimum for capacity. For one reason or another, this is often not the case in FM's version of the World Cup. Unless already proposed IRL, new stadiums are never introduced for these showpiece tournaments in FM. It's strange to see the World Cup return to South Africa in 2034 and have the tournament played in exactly the same stadia from 2010. The same goes for any repeat host that doesn't have a league on "active", which would initiate new stadia through club teams.

Additionally, the stadia chosen for future World Cups in FM often falls below FIFA minimum capacity or involves odd scheduling. As an example of the former, the United States has more high-capacity, modern stadiums than any nation in the world. The fact that America still holds the World Cup's total attendance record despite only hosting a 24-team tournament speaks to this, as does the reality that dozens of +60,000 seat venues have already been eliminated as potential sites for the USA2022 bid. With that in mind, there's no reason why a venue for USA2038 only held 15,000 fans, not to mention in an old stadium. I've seen similar cases in other tournaments, such as when Norway hosted the Euros one year and uses a 4,000-seat stadium.

Scheduling also remains a mystery in FM's version of the World Cup, as the mechanism for choosing major matches like the final seems to solely revolve around capacity. While picking the largest stadium to host the final seems reasonable at first, it usually leads to odd, improbable choices in practice. In Spain2030, the game chose to put the final in Camp Nou (the largest stadium) rather than in Madrid (national capital). This isn't to say that the World Cup final should always be in the nation's capital, but I can't imagine Spain giving the final to Barcelona given the historical political context of the nation. A similar situation occurs when Italy hosts the cup, where one would think the final must be in Rome, but instead is played at the higher-capacity San Siro.

SUGGESTION: Create a list of fictional stadiums in countries eligible to host the World Cup. For example, a future World Cup in Australia should not have to be played in any sub-30k venues, even if they already exist. Instead, have a list of two-dozen or so fictional stadium names that make some amount of sense that can be created if a major tournament is ever staged by the country. I've seen American stadiums in FM10 that I'm 90% sure don't exist (Guiliani Stadium in New York), but this is precisely what should be done. Name a fictional stadium after a famous political figure, generic company (ABC Chemical), or nickname for the city (Motor City Stadium) then slap an attendance on it (+40k), and repeat 8-12 times over. Obviously such stadiums would not be needed when a country has an "active" league where clubs gradually build new grounds. For example, a future World Cup in England may not need new stadiums generated specifically for the event. By 2050, Arsenal, Man City and Blackburn have all built large modern stadia, which would presumably host a future English World Cup. However, it would also be a fun touch to have a system where if a country is selected to host a major tournament, some clubs become the beneficiaries of new venues needed to host. Managing Bristol City and England has just been awarded World Cup 2054? Here's your new, 45,000-seat stadium. Selecting the venue for the final could also be fixed easily, depending on the particular host. Either hard-code particular venues (Ex: Rome always hosts an Italian World Cup Final) or, if it makes sense, spread it around (Ex: New York hosting a future American World Cup final, as opposed to Los Angeles for a second time). The point is, not making a one-size-fits-all situation so that there is a greater degree of realism...and immersion

3. Dynamic Talent Pools

Anybody who has read the influential book "Soccernomics", and many who haven't, are aware that the game's balance of power is in flux. Globalization of the sport, greater access to European leagues, and proper talent identification/training infrastructure means that some past footballing backwaters are primed for future success. The United States, Australia, Turkey, and China are all examples of this anticipated phenomenon. Each have large populations that, if proper mobilized, could become soccer powers in future decades. For long-term games, it would be fun if FM reflected some of these shifts.

SUGGESTION: Incorporate dynamic national talent pools into FM. I believe this already happens in some long-term games. For example, Turkey are a perennial Top-10 team in my gameworld, advancing far into the World Cup regularly and churning out as many World Class players as Brazil or Argentina. It would be interesting if sometimes this happened to other countries like China or the United States, where similar leaps are expected.

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I realize this is quite a bit of discussion for a couple of small issues that may have limited appeal. However, FM has always been about realism and immersion, even down to the tiny details most people may never notice. The game is great because it gets even the smallest things right, down to the fourth division American club I support that plays at a local high school stadium. The fact that a guy in London playing with Arsenal may never notice is immaterial. The point is, if he inexplicably decided to arrange an away friendly against "Hollywood United" in a quiet LA suburb, he'd actually be playing at a real-life ground that almost nobody knows exists. That's the definition of immersion and if FM can do such a great job of realism on the smallest levels, then it should relish the challenge of improving its greatest stage of all, the World Cup.

I would love to see the World Cup treated as more than it is in-game. For now, it seems just as important as the Champions Cup (although important in it's own right, has nowhere near the global appeal of the World Cup)

The way countries have been chosen seem fine for me though, In 2035, I've seen countries like China and Turkey.

In my game, I have seen dynamic national pools, for example, my world rankings as of July 18, 2035.

1. Russia (fluke wins over Brazil and former #1 United States

2. Mali

3. Italy

4. United States (I believe this to be a bug, but i"ve looked at their u20 and see 17 year olds with talent levels rivaling those of Messi in 2010

5. South Korea (My team, young talents have matured into their prime but my younger players are weak, shows dynamic change here with great players, followed by poor ones)

6. Turkey (perennial top 20s)

7. Holland

8. Nigeria (was #2 for a short while back in the 2020s

9. Japan (Probably dived their way to victory)

10. Ghana (surprising for me)

Something interesting, China has been steadily rising the world rankings, as in now #34.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'm fairly happy with talent pools.

You make good points though, maybe a developer will look at this?

Mali??? Have they ever been anything in football?

Well football maybe not, but they were much bigger and better than our corrupt Europe for a while. Google Mandinka Empire.

Oh, I'm well aware of the history of the region and I didn't want to disrespect them in any way

But seeing them at #2 in the world rankings, that's just a little beyond what is plausible, surely?

Great OP MGoldman, completely agree with everything you've said. I also think there should be a greater build-up towards the World Cup, perhaps press conferences towards the end of a club season asking who you think will win, more transfers based on good performances in the world cup (as does happen IRL) and just a greater impact and emphasis on the biggest tournament of them all.

Mali at #2 is a bug unless the OP had a big hand in it - would be interested to hear if he has been editing, or managing the Mali side?

Mali at #2 is a bug unless the OP had a big hand in it - would be interested to hear if he has been editing, or managing the Mali side?

I can't speak for the poster who had the Mali save, but my 2050 gameworld was on permanent holdiay, no managed teams, and no editing. I can't say there's been anything as improbable as that, but Sudan produced an elite MC (think top 10 players in the world) in the 2040s, despite the country's lack of football pedigree. I suppose that's not completely analogous, since nobody would bat an eye at Mali producing a world-class player (Kanoute, Keita), but achieving team success may be more surprising.

I like the ideas raised I do feel that the host selection isn't quite right, in my game the 2020 Olympics are being hosted by Great Britain again which wouldn't ever happen in real life. It seems realistic that the USA would have improved quite a lot by 2035 due to the increasing popularity of the game and the money and infrastructure available. I've seen some nations do extremely well in 1 tournament and move up the rankings such as Nigeria getting to the final of WC 2010 on the last FM and Sweden and Ukraine winning Euro 2012 on each of my current save games which I couldn't see happening with the current squads.

Thanks for the positive feedback, everyone. I'm thinking that part of the issue is the way FM research is structured. I know individual countries and territories have their own researchers, but do competitions? I think that could be a good, additional layer of oversight that provides proper attention to the World Cup and other competitions.

In general there is something wrong with how world cup matches are determined.

In my game, Wales lost to eventual champ Chile in the Semi final in 2014!

There's always been a problem with Mexico. I remember in FM 2008 they were four times consecutive World Cup winners with their striker Enrico Meza scoring 140+ goals in his international career. They were like robots.

Mali at #2 is a bug unless the OP had a big hand in it - would be interested to hear if he has been editing, or managing the Mali side?

no editing, I'm new to this, so I didn't find out how to edit until a few minutes ago, I'm managing South Korea btw

Edit: I've started a new game, and is managing only South Korea, I'll post simmed results with little to no interference soon.

After the 2026 World Cup, My South Korean team is #4

1. United States

2. France

3. Ghana

4. South Korea

5. Ivory Coast

6. Argentina

7. Spain

8. Croatia

9. Brazil

10. Saudi Arabia

England is 26th

Nigeria is 29th

Egypt is 30th

Germany is 34th

Mali is 38

Northern Ireland is 168th

Once again, no edits, no club play.