Gone into administration twice in two seasons.

So I'm playing as Middlesbrough and I'm into my fifth season with the club. In the past two seasons I've got into administration twice, been docked 9 points each time and ended up losing half my team to pay the wages. This time I've lost 4 defensive players, three of which were starters and I'm probably going to lose more. What I don't understand however is that at the beginning of the season the finances were secure and I was given a healthy transfer budget. I spent the majority of it this time and had under 18k left of my wage bill. Why would they give me that money to spend if they knew I'd end up going into administration anyway? I got to the quarter final of the league cup which got me a bit of money and haven't had any other way to get money. It just bugs me and ****es me off, they gave me money to use to buy players to get a good league position. I was in the process of doing that and suddenly I get rocked by this. Why didn't they just give me less money to spend? Now just as I'm getting into a hot streak I lose my players. How stupid can they be?

Because the club thought you would bring them enough success that they would make the money back. A real life example would be "why did Portsmouth re-hire Redknapp, especially when they knew he would bring in players for high fees and inflated wages?" "Because they were stupid enough to think he would be sucessful enough to sustain the level of wages".

I think its your tactics, no in all seriousness that sucks for you I had something similar with Sheff Wed but that was 3 admins in 4 years, so I pretty much re-built by sacking everyone and re moulding the team, hey i got relegated twice in 3 years but clawed my way back to the Prem !

this happens a lot. ok, here's the way to avoid coming on here complaining about you ruined a team:

a) look at the budget the club gives you, it's nice isn't it?

b) now look at TOTAL amount of funds the club has, wow, it's no where near what they gave you as your budget is it?

c) DON'T SPEND ALL THE FREAKIN BUDGET!!!!

When playing with a medium - small club only spend half of what the total amount in their bank account is, and you won't loose points and go plummeting down the table.

I even use this philosophy in my Liverpool save, I can almost guarantee Europe each season and the money that comes with it, and the budget I was given this season was $400M, however, our bank balance is only $325M, so I wouldn't even think of spending more than $100M on players (so far I've spent $16M on 5 very good teenagers).

I'm serious, this is about the 5th person who has done this on the forums.

I don't mean to be rude mate, just spend a few seconds thinking: 'can we actually afford me to spend 50 million pounds when we only have 15 million pounds in the bank?'

this happens a lot. ok, here's the way to avoid coming on here complaining about you ruined a team:

a) look at the budget the club gives you, it's nice isn't it?

b) now look at TOTAL amount of funds the club has, wow, it's no where near what they gave you as your budget is it?

c) DON'T SPEND ALL THE FREAKIN BUDGET!!!!

When playing with a medium - small club only spend half of what the total amount in their bank account is, and you won't loose points and go plummeting down the table.

I even use this philosophy in my Liverpool save, I can almost guarantee Europe each season and the money that comes with it, and the budget I was given this season was $400M, however, our bank balance is only $325M, so I wouldn't even think of spending more than $100M on players (so far I've spent $16M on 5 very good teenagers).

I'm serious, this is about the 5th person who has done this on the forums.

I don't mean to be rude mate, just spend a few seconds thinking: 'can we actually afford me to spend 50 million pounds when we only have 15 million pounds in the bank?'

I always do this now (check the bank), fell into this trap once, was leading the Championship with 'boro and got a message telling me the board had just put another £4m into the club, to prevent going into administration. Even when i got promoted, I decided then to sell over £35m worth of talent, just to keep the club from going bust.

Now every season I check my bank balance when my new transfer budget is announced, and adjust my transfer budget accordingly. If it means I only have £3m to spend, so be it.

Just wanted to check the OP isn't employed in the financial sector is he?

It's not only that. I usually take a look at the income and expenditure, so I can make an idea if the club budget is healthy (income - expenditure > 0) or not. If the budget is not healthy, I reduce expenditure and if there isn't any other option I start selling players. If you don't have a healthy club budget you just cannot afford buying players. If you do it, then you may get in trouble (administration )

The budgets are wrecked. If I spent it all and had a max wage bill I'd lose 60million pounds a season and that's with no transfers done over 4 years or big loan repayments. I guess SI wanted to make it easier to get yourself into trouble but whichever imaginary ai figure does the maths before deciding the budget must be totally incompetent.

Let me first say that I sympathise with the OP in his frustration about being given a budget which takes the club down into administration.

Then however I wonder how you could be so free-spending just after having experienced receivership :confused: You cannot say you weren't warned...

I'd be more than careful and would prefer to keep the money first or just spend the budget amount over 48 months (the same amount, thus leaving three quarters of the budget in place).

So basically what sydfc4ever said from a to c...

Gererally the first thing I do when I take over at any club is to check its finances. I look at how much they have in the bank and the profit or loss of last season. Then I look at the details a bit more. When I see they had a transfer profit of 5 million but ended up with no profit, then I know that if I spend 5 million I must expect to lose 10 million over the season. If the bank balance doesn't support that, then I cannot spend that money even if I'm given it as a budget.

Just a bit of common sense and 2nd grade maths here. It may be questionable whether the boards should allow us to wreck the club financially as regularly as they do in FM10, but once we know that it just means that we must not trust the board and double-check before spending the whole budget.

Let me first say that I sympathise with the OP in his frustration about being given a budget which takes the club down into administration.

Then however I wonder how you could be so free-spending just after having experienced receivership :confused: You cannot say you weren't warned...

I'd be more than careful and would prefer to keep the money first or just spend the budget amount over 48 months (the same amount, thus leaving three quarters of the budget in place).

So basically what sydfc4ever said from a to c...

Gererally the first thing I do when I take over at any club is to check its finances. I look at how much they have in the bank and the profit or loss of last season. Then I look at the details a bit more. When I see they had a transfer profit of 5 million but ended up with no profit, then I know that if I spend 5 million I must expect to lose 10 million over the season. If the bank balance doesn't support that, then I cannot spend that money even if I'm given it as a budget.

Just a bit of common sense and 2nd grade maths here. It may be questionable whether the boards should allow us to wreck the club financially as regularly as they do in FM10, but once we know that it just means that we must not trust the board and double-check before spending the whole budget.

Yeah but this has never been the case in previous versions so it seems dumb to expect everyone to check the previous season income/expenditure. So it's likely that most are going to do exactly what the OP did (at least once).

And in game it seems every team does this as opposed to irl where some have, but at least with the excuse that for example they were going for promotion or champs league. In game even if your expectations are mid table you're given a budget that would bankrupt you.

Yeah but this has never been the case in previous versions so it seems dumb to expect everyone to check the previous season income/expenditure. So it's likely that most are going to do exactly what the OP did (at least once).

And in game it seems every team does this as opposed to irl where some have, but at least with the excuse that for example they were going for promotion or champs league. In game even if your expectations are mid table you're given a budget that would bankrupt you.

I agree it is debatable whether it should work like it does currently.

However FM10 has brought a change in economics that has been understood only partly as it seems to me. That is the possibility of buying players in 48 months instalments.

Since people realized they could spend 40 millions with a mere 10 million budget by just using instalments there is a higher danger of clubs going into administration due to the unforseen (yet actually easily forseeable) future effects of such deals.

Imagine a 10 million busget each year which is fully maxxed out. Then you spen 10 million in the first year, 20 in the second, 30 in the third and 40 every year from year 4 on. That's a total of 60 million over budget after year 4.

This situation poses a challenge both for the user and for the AI:

1. The user now has to be aware of these effects and take prior transfer into account that he will spend 10 million in the second year too even when not signing any new players. That means more need to check the balance AND the budget. Other than in earlier versions the math has become a bit more complicated so that now we have to spend at least some thought on making ends meet.

2. The AI has a new problem area to cover when calculating the budgets. Maybe this is what the AI is failing at so far. Would the budget always perfectly reflect all obligations, then also challenge 1 above would be removed again, though I'm not sure if that is desirable in totality. Just a bit more chairman capable of using a calculator would already suffice perfectly for me

I wouldn't be suprised if the problems the OP has faced are linked to obligations payable in instalments. Many people will still not be aware of the problem as either they have so much success that the economic problem is completely mitigated by higher income from TV and price money or because they jump ship to a bigger club before the problem becomes virulent.

I agree it is debatable whether it should work like it does currently.

However FM10 has brought a change in economics that has been understood only partly as it seems to me. That is the possibility of buying players in 48 months instalments.

Since people realized they could spend 40 millions with a mere 10 million budget by just using instalments there is a higher danger of clubs going into administration due to the unforseen (yet actually easily forseeable) future effects of such deals.

Imagine a 10 million busget each year which is fully maxxed out. Then you spen 10 million in the first year, 20 in the second, 30 in the third and 40 every year from year 4 on. That's a total of 60 million over budget after year 4.

This situation poses a challenge both for the user and for the AI:

1. The user now has to be aware of these effects and take prior transfer into account that he will spend 10 million in the second year too even when not signing any new players. That means more need to check the balance AND the budget. Other than in earlier versions the math has become a bit more complicated so that now we have to spend at least some thought on making ends meet.

2. The AI has a new problem area to cover when calculating the budgets. Maybe this is what the AI is failing at so far. Would the budget always perfectly reflect all obligations, then also challenge 1 above would be removed again, though I'm not sure if that is desirable in totality. Just a bit more chairman capable of using a calculator would already suffice perfectly for me

I wouldn't be suprised if the problems the OP has faced are linked to obligations payable in instalments. Many people will still not be aware of the problem as either they have so much success that the economic problem is completely mitigated by higher income from TV and price money or because they jump ship to a bigger club before the problem becomes virulent.

As i said I have no players over 48 months. I had a transfer budget of 20mil and wage budget of 1.3m. Of this I use 600k per week and instead made a net income (on transfres) of 10mil. Therefore I am 60mil under budget. Yet at the end of season my bank budget is 0.

I suppose the fact that my purchases are immediate and sales are sometimes over months explains for a small percentage of this descrepancy but nowhere near enough.

The bank balance is a very cyclic thing, especially if you are playing with a club that has some loans.

For example, I played as Man utd, and I lose around 50-60m through the year due to the loans I have to repay each month. Luckily, the 100 odd mil from prizes, tv money at the end of the season and season tickets at the start just about keep me on an even keel. It is quite scary that you go a little into the red during the season if you start splashing money, but as long as you keep a net profit by the end of the season, you should be fine and not go into administration since you are unlikely to have gone 20-30m into debt at any time in the season if you are still making a profit by the end.

I can go as far as to agree that the staff that handles the clubs finances seem like a bunch of tossers in this game. Besides that I have little sympathy for the situation the OP finds himself/herself in. After 5 years you should have a sound understanding of how much the club rakes in and how much it spends. It's doesn't exactly require any advanced math skills to figure out how much you can spend without going into the red. At the very least the first administration spell should have made you think twice about what is going on in the finance screens. I don't know which is worse, not doing so or not being able to figure out what happened.

AFAIC it is a good thing that how we handle the club's finances in the game has consequences. As with everything else there is room for improvement but all in all it adds to the experience and realism of the game.

Just as sydfc4ever I wasn't looking to be rude, but avoiding the issue at hand really is rather easy.