things could actally be learnt from champ man!

as much as i hate to say it, I had a go on champ man the other day and the match engine is actually pretty good. the graphics are not amazing but they are brave enough to go with the 3d look and it works.

you forget how much being able to see a match play out from that angle gives you a better match experience.

if they can do it why can't si give it a go?

as much as i hate to say it, I had a go on champ man the other day and the match engine is actually pretty good. the graphics are not amazing but they are brave enough to go with the 3d look and it works.

you forget how much being able to see a match play out from that angle gives you a better match experience.

if they can do it why can't si give it a go?

AGAIN???????

You've posted this thing 5 or 6 times now. And I tell you this every time you do it.

coz its pretty much the only issue that would make the game perfect.

I care too much!!!!

i take it im on my own with this one

The view is nice, but the engine itself is horric.

Yes!

I've tried a few of the CM's before and they all have a kind of "Placebo" effect.

In everything from tactics to training to (minimal) player interaction, it's hard to tell whether anything you do has any real effect.

And if it does it's too hard to tell.

CM is about as deep as a puddle.

Rather like Keira Knightley; Nice to look at, but not very much going on up front.

i agree the game is pretty poor but after being so used to seeing that same 2d view with dots it was actually refreashing to see. you actually get the impression of a player dropping is shoulder and beating a man, you can actually see the goalkeeper dive to his right to make a save and you get more of an impression of, say, your team playing the short passing game on the floor that you have drilled into them.

fair play it looks pretty crude at times and the colour scheme is bad but with a little refiniement you could have and interesting and practical mach engine.

i just still don't ynderstand why people don't feel this is absolutely paramount, the no 1 priority the match. The match the match the match!!!

The FM engine is 3D, we just see it from above making it look 2D.

It simulates the horizontal and the vertical.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ackter:

The FM engine is 3D, we just see it from above making it look 2D.

It simulates the horizontal and the vertical. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

eh???????

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by arseneknows:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ackter:

The FM engine is 3D, we just see it from above making it look 2D.

It simulates the horizontal and the vertical. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

eh??????? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What he's saying is that the match engine isn't what we see... the match engine takes into account everything... but the graphics used to represent the match engine just don't show it. It's just semantics.

Horizontal = 2 dimensions (ie length and width)

Vertical = 3rd dimension (ie height)

http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/~axs/fig/cube-only.png

^ This is 3D, you can see the vertical and horizontal lines.

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/7562/squareba5.jpg

^ This is the same thing seen from above. That 3rd dimension is still there, but you can't see it.

Exactly the same principle as the FM match engine. It's a 3D match engine of which we can only see 2 (though the 3rd one is also visible based on the shadow of the ball).

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The match the match the match!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We already have that.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ackter:

Horizontal = 2 dimensions (ie length and width)

Vertical = 3rd dimension (ie height)

http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/~axs/fig/cube-only.png

^ This is 3D, you can see the vertical and horizontal lines.

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/7562/squareba5.jpg

^ This is the same thing seen from above. That 3rd dimension is still there, but you can't see it.

Exactly the same principle as the FM match engine. It's a 3D match engine of which we can only see 2 (though the 3rd one is also visible based on the shadow of the ball). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

did sort of know what you meant anyway, but ok fair enough and yeah you can see when you play a long ball etc.

But those dots man those bloody dots they're not footballers. couldent the ball even look official

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Starr_Man5:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The match the match the match!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We already have that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

look fm is a good game, don't get me wrong, i knoe this and respect to SI but the match has not evolved and trust me, when it does just that subtle amount you will get even more from the game!

The actually quality of the match engine is far far more important then the view we get.

What BGS have done is gone for the eye candy. They've gone for a nice looking match engine, but, have neglected the football part of it. Watching it, the match engine doesn't really feel like football.

SI however have concentrated on getting the match engine as close to perfect as possible. Sure, it's not perfect, and probably never will be, but at least, for the most part, it does feel like a game of football.

It would be nice to be able to see things like players falling, or leaping to head the ball, but the overall quality of the match engine is far more important, so, personally, I'd much rather this was focused on then changing the view point of the field.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by arseneknows:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ackter:

Horizontal = 2 dimensions (ie length and width)

Vertical = 3rd dimension (ie height)

http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/~axs/fig/cube-only.png

^ This is 3D, you can see the vertical and horizontal lines.

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/7562/squareba5.jpg

^ This is the same thing seen from above. That 3rd dimension is still there, but you can't see it.

Exactly the same principle as the FM match engine. It's a 3D match engine of which we can only see 2 (though the 3rd one is also visible based on the shadow of the ball). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

did sort of know what you meant anyway, but ok fair enough and yeah you can see when you play a long ball etc.

But those dots man those bloody dots they're not footballers. couldent the ball even look official </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Neither does the program that real life football managers use to study every match they play, and every opponent they face.

http://www.pzfootball.co.uk/product_PZ3_Animation.htm

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">What BGS have done is gone for the eye candy. They've gone for a nice looking match engine, but, have neglected the football part of it. Watching it, the match engine doesn't really feel like football. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Except it doesn't really look nice. Looks like a game of subbuteo.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bongo-Bongo:

The actually quality of the match engine is far far more important then the view we get.

What BGS have done is gone for the eye candy. They've gone for a nice looking match engine, but, have neglected the football part of it. Watching it, the match engine doesn't really feel like football.

SI however have concentrated on getting the match engine as close to perfect as possible. Sure, it's not perfect, and probably never will be, but at least, for the most part, it does feel like a game of football.

It would be nice to be able to see things like players falling, or leaping to head the ball, but the overall quality of the match engine is far more important, so, personally, I'd much rather this was focused on then changing the view point of the field. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes the matches do play realisticly.

but a slight degree tilt on the view, not dramatic and very benificial with regards to getting more of a feel to how your team is playing

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ackter:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">What BGS have done is gone for the eye candy. They've gone for a nice looking match engine, but, have neglected the football part of it. Watching it, the match engine doesn't really feel like football. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Except it doesn't really look nice. Looks like a game of subbuteo. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

thats just the colours and the finer details and you know it, what does fm look loke then?

FM looks like the professional tool that real life managers use to study matches.

CM:

http://www.vpltd.com/images/cm2008pic_001.jpg

Looks like subbuteo.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ackter:

CM:

http://www.vpltd.com/images/cm2008pic_001.jpg

Looks like subbuteo. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

look personally all i want to know is it in si's minds to slightly change the look of the match engine next version.

have they thought about subtle improvements like the ones mentioned above.

If they have, the first you'll know about it is when they announce the new game - they're not in the habit of giving away their future plans on a public forum.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ackter:

If they have, the first you'll know about it is when they announce the new game - they're not in the habit of giving away their future plans on a public forum. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

no of course, but they appreciate the fans opinions and ideas.

but i wonder if they will anyway they just seem to think it has gone as far as it can.