Jimmious7 Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 (edited) So I'm thinking to go with the following setup as my "home" tactic for the next season: With the following TIs: Mentality: Positive In Possession: A tick faster, pass into space, maybe overlap left (my left WB is a really good player for the level with good offensive attributes so I like to get him a lot into play) Transition: Counter Press, Counter Out of possession: Higher DL, A tick higher press intensity The goal is play offensive football with quick counter attacks, not necessarily to dominate possession Feel free to rip it apart. My main concerns are: Will we have enough movement in attack to create good chances? Will we be defensively solid enough? *Forgot to mention a couple of PIs I'm planning to use: Left IFS Sit Narrower, same with Right FB S. AM S will take more risks Edited February 24, 2020 by Jimmious7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
XuluBak Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 Quote Managing: Ljungskile SK Is that accurate? Do you have a player skillful enough to justify RPM over a DLP? You mentioned higher DL, what's your LoE? Also, for higher intensity, pressing tactics, I'd advise HB/DM instead of anchorman as your more defensive DM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmious7 Posted February 24, 2020 Author Share Posted February 24, 2020 1 hour ago, XuluBak said: Is that accurate? Do you have a player skillful enough to justify RPM over a DLP? We just reached the top division I believe I do have someone who can play that now 1 hour ago, XuluBak said: You mentioned higher DL, what's your LoE? Standard! 1 hour ago, XuluBak said: Also, for higher intensity, pressing tactics, I'd advise HB/DM instead of anchorman as your more defensive DM. My logic was that the Anchorman would cover the aggressive wing back on his side. A Half Back is an interesting idea but the role kinda confuses me sometimes... I guess I might give that a go Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
XuluBak Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Jimmious7 said: We just reached the top division I believe I do have someone who can play that now I've been pleased with the role in CM, but haven't tried in part of a DM pairing (in FM20), so can't speak to how it performs there, or how it may interact with other positions on that level. 1 hour ago, Jimmious7 said: Standard! If you're playing a high DL and pressing aggressively, then I'd recommend your LOE being at least as aggressive as your DL. Otherwise, you risk BPD/DLPs having time and space to pick out long balls over the top of your backline. That's always a risk, of course, but you're more susceptible if you're not pressuring the ball. Also, unless I missed it, you're not playing offside trap and neither of your CBs have a "cover" duty. If you're wanting to keep the lower LOE to create space to counter into, then just beware that's a potential weakspot and adjust accordingly. 1 hour ago, Jimmious7 said: My logic was that the Anchorman would cover the aggressive wing back on his side. A Half Back is an interesting idea but the role kinda confuses me sometimes... I guess I might give that a go As a general rule, I prefer HB for high pressing, Anchor man for sitting back; however, I admittedly misread your RB as WB(s). Considering the discrepancy between your FBs aggressiveness, having someone to really protect the left side makes sense; although, I'm not sure an anchorman will get wide enough to do that for you. An HB won't either, but he'll essentially create a back three and offer greater protection against counter attacks. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmious7 Posted February 24, 2020 Author Share Posted February 24, 2020 Nice stuff thanks. Having a CB with Cover especially "clicked" nicely in my mind. About having a higher LoE, I'm just worried to lose "compactness" as @Experienced Defender frequently says. Especially since there is already a gap between my DM and AM strata Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
XuluBak Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 4 minutes ago, Jimmious7 said: Nice stuff thanks. Having a CB with Cover especially "clicked" nicely in my mind. About having a higher LoE, I'm just worried to lose "compactness" as @Experienced Defender frequently says. Especially since there is already a gap between my DM and AM strata Compactness is a fair concern, but as a high pressing team, I'm much more concerned with a direct counter attack than a fluid one. At least I have a chance for my (hard working) midfield to recover from the latter. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Experienced Defender Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Jimmious7 said: About having a higher LoE, I'm just worried to lose "compactness" as @Experienced Defender frequently says. Especially since there is already a gap between my DM and AM strata You can afford to "lose" some compactness if you are confident your players are able to cover that extra space. In any case, you can try both higher and standard LOE and see. There is no fixed rule. You basically have to sacrifice something to get something else, so the key question is whether the reward is worth the risk and how much risk you are willing to accept. Given that you play in a deep 4231 (with DMs), sacrificing a bit of compactness is less risky than in standard 4231. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmious7 Posted February 24, 2020 Author Share Posted February 24, 2020 I will start with a higher LoE then and see how it goes 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Experienced Defender Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 4 minutes ago, Jimmious7 said: I will start with a higher LoE then and see how it goes Whatever tactical decision you are about to make, you always need to know clearly why exactly you want to do this or that and then think how it can affect other aspects of the tactic. That's the whole essence of tactical creation and tweaking. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmious7 Posted February 24, 2020 Author Share Posted February 24, 2020 1 minute ago, Experienced Defender said: Whatever tactical decision you are about to make, you always need to know clearly why exactly you want to do this or that and then think how it can affect other aspects of the tactic. That's the whole essence of tactical creation and tweaking. Agreed. And since my goal is to play something similar to gegen-press but to the ability of the team that I have... I think pressing higher is the way to go. I was just afraid to do it since I already had a "gap" due to no players in the M strata Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmious7 Posted February 25, 2020 Author Share Posted February 25, 2020 To update on how it's going, the left DM is now a DM-D , the right one a Regista. This seems to work decently. Also the left center back is in Cover. Also changed the AMC to an AP-Su which seems to make him participate in the game more frequently. However we seem to be creating almost exclusively form the wings, with crosses. While I know that the current ME is mainly at fault here, I'm wondering if I can so something to improve the situation. Maybe play Narrower? Or change the right W-A to be also an IF? Or make the Left WB be only WB-Su? Any ideas? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
XuluBak Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Jimmious7 said: To update on how it's going, the left DM is now a DM-D , the right one a Regista. This seems to work decently. Also the left center back is in Cover. Also changed the AMC to an AP-Su which seems to make him participate in the game more frequently. However we seem to be creating almost exclusively form the wings, with crosses. While I know that the current ME is mainly at fault here, I'm wondering if I can so something to improve the situation. Maybe play Narrower? Or change the right W-A to be also an IF? Or make the Left WB be only WB-Su? Any ideas? Changes all sound good. I'm not sure I understand the problem though. With the way you're setup, I'd expect a lot of your chances to come from crosses of one type or another. Is it an aesthetics issue? Too many crosses when it doesn't make sense? The wrong people crossing the ball? What are you wanting to happen on the attack? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmious7 Posted February 25, 2020 Author Share Posted February 25, 2020 41 minutes ago, XuluBak said: Changes all sound good. I'm not sure I understand the problem though. With the way you're setup, I'd expect a lot of your chances to come from crosses of one type or another. Is it an aesthetics issue? Too many crosses when it doesn't make sense? The wrong people crossing the ball? What are you wanting to happen on the attack? I would like the AM to create chances if possible for example. Ideally the wingers would have to get in the area to create options - that's why I'm considering the right winger change for example And of course I would like my striker to be the end point of more attacks, especially since I got a really good player there recently Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
XuluBak Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 6 hours ago, Jimmious7 said: I would like the AM to create chances if possible for example. Ideally the wingers would have to get in the area to create options - that's why I'm considering the right winger change for example And of course I would like my striker to be the end point of more attacks, especially since I got a really good player there recently Gotcha. I've yet to figure out how to make that happen in FM20 using a 4231, or frankly, any formation. Even when my #10s have had a relatively good season, they've come up far short of what I've managed to get from wide players (winger, WB, or FB), or even playmaking CMs. Maybe figuring out how to get WC production from a #10 is a tactical challenge this year. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmious7 Posted February 25, 2020 Author Share Posted February 25, 2020 27 minutes ago, XuluBak said: Gotcha. I've yet to figure out how to make that happen in FM20 using a 4231, or frankly, any formation. Even when my #10s have had a relatively good season, they've come up far short of what I've managed to get from wide players (winger, WB, or FB), or even playmaking CMs. Maybe figuring out how to get WC production from a #10 is a tactical challenge this year. Or , sadly, simply impossible.. Well at least in the current state of the ME. From what I can tell, teams generally tend to defend narrow and overload the central midfield defensively so AMs rarely have space to do anything important. And unfortunately when they do, the choices are... "questionable" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
XuluBak Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 4 minutes ago, Jimmious7 said: Or , sadly, simply impossible.. Well at least in the current state of the ME. From what I can tell, teams generally tend to defend narrow and overload the central midfield defensively so AMs rarely have space to do anything important. And unfortunately when they do, the choices are... "questionable" Yes, but... I'd say that reflects reality to some extent. #10s are largely a dying breed for a reason. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmious7 Posted February 25, 2020 Author Share Posted February 25, 2020 4 minutes ago, XuluBak said: Yes, but... I'd say that reflects reality to some extent. #10s are largely a dying breed for a reason. I can't disagree with that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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