CB Roles

[Arsenal457]

This is more out of curiosity, but what combos work with 3 at the back, 4 at the back, and 5 at the back? I used to play with a defend and cover CB a while back but was discouraged due to them being too easy to pass. What combos would work and why?

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, Arsenal457 said:

This is more out of curiosity, but what combos work with 3 at the back, 4 at the back, and 5 at the back? I used to play with a defend and cover CB a while back but was discouraged due to them being too easy to pass. What combos would work and why?

Once again you are looking at tactical elements in isolation. Any combo can work great if it is set up as an integral part of a well-balanced system as a whole. And that same combo can turn out to be a failure if the tactic as a whole is set up in a wrong way. And then again, what is a good (perfect) setup for one team may prove totally wrong for another. 

[Arsenal457]

30 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Once again you are looking at tactical elements in isolation. Any combo can work great if it is set up as an integral part of a well-balanced system as a whole. And that same combo can turn out to be a failure if the tactic as a whole is set up in a wrong way. And then again, what is a good (perfect) setup for one team may prove totally wrong for another. 

That is very true. Knowing you, you probably know I run a 4231 with the CMs involving a DLP (d) and for the one on the right I’ve been experimenting, but has been a MEZ (s), a BBM, a CM (s) but nothing seems to have stuck very well.

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, Arsenal457 said:

Knowing you, you probably know I run a 4231 with the CMs involving a DLP (d) and for the one on the right I’ve been experimenting, but has been a MEZ (s), a BBM, a CM (s) but nothing seems to have stuck very well

Yes, I know your 4231 tactic with Arsenal. But your question above was about CBs, not CMs. If your defense is too vulnerable, I think it's much more due to your risky defensive team instructions than CB roles (unless Skriniar makes a lot of mistakes as a BPD, since I don't know if he has right attributes for the role).

Btw, I noticed that almost all your players from starting 11 have the full-green circle indicating maximum role suitability. Do you intentionally give them roles that the game suggests as "most suitable", or it's just a coincidence?

[Arsenal457]

17 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Yes, I know your 4231 tactic with Arsenal. But your question above was about CBs, not CMs. If your defense is too vulnerable, I think it's much more due to your risky defensive team instructions than CB roles (unless Skriniar makes a lot of mistakes as a BPD, since I don't know if he has right attributes for the role).

Btw, I noticed that almost all your players from starting 11 have the full-green circle indicating maximum role suitability. Do you intentionally give them roles that the game suggests as "most suitable", or it's just a coincidence?

I think a I think a bit of both. I wanted to wingbacks, one BPD and one CD, an AP and a DLP, an inside forward and what was on the right wing didn’t both me heaps, and as you know I’m still figuring out the striker and the RCM.

I know I talked about the CM, but I thought that’s what you meant with the tactic around the CBs.

[Experienced Defender]

2 minutes ago, Arsenal457 said:

I think a I think a bit of both. I wanted to wingbacks, one BPD and one CD, an AP and a DLP, an inside forward and what was on the right wing didn’t both me heaps, and as you know I’m still figuring out the striker and the RCM.

I know I talked about the CM, but I thought that’s what you meant with the tactic around the CBs.

Do you have the right player to play a BPD role? What are Skriniar's attribute ratings for passing, vision, first touch, decisions, technique, composure and anticipation?

You wanted to play AP and DLP together as the 2 CMs, or either one or the other?

Anyway, when choosing roles, ignore what the game says (green circle). Look at the player's attributes, traits and sometimes footedness (primarily for wide players), but also bear in mind how different roles interact with one another within the overall setup. And try not to be one-dimensional.

And remember that mentality directly affects a lot of instructions (passing style, tempo, width, d-line, LOE, pressing urgency).

Player instructions can also be useful. You don't have to set up everything via team instructions. Split press (block) for example.

[Warrenwwr]

3 at the back..aka no wingbacks? Wish I could make that work in a tactic!

4 at the back...such a versatile defensive line, but not as versatile as 5 at the back. 

The combos in these defensive lines depends a lot on the players you have, and the play style you want.

My advice if you are having a tough time is to keep it simplified and basic wrt the roles. Just at first until you slowly observe improvements that can be made. Choose a play style and don't make too many tweaks at first.

Looking at your defensive line in isolation isn't too bad a plan especially if you notice nonsense happening there in matches. Reset the roles and see what happens. Generally as long as a player it competent in a position, he can do whatever role you set, however with varying effectiveness depending on his ability. Go with low risk roles at first.

Have you ever seen what a solid bank of 4 or 5 looks like when defending? so strong...now figure out the roles, TIs, PIs required to have your Def line default to this shape when out of possession, for as long as possible.

For my team (small budget) I found that using fullbacks on auto made a world of difference. The safest role for DCs is the Def mentality. For now, Stick with it unless your central defenders are unique eg...pacey but cannot jump very high =cover mentality.

Now...a defensive line of 4 isn't as versatile as a 5. In a 4, if one DC makes an error, chances are only 1 guy can help out when on the back foot. Think what if mbappe burns your DC on the St mentality, you will probably wish you had the other more pacey DC with the Cov mentality to pressure him into giving back possession. So risky though. There's a reason the DMC became so popular (think makelele play style)

But what if you had both DCs on the same mentality eg Def. Then both may be more patient, analyzing the threat and working in tandem to force mbappe wide etc...aka into a less threatening position.

But in a line of 5, so many options open up. A stopper who gets burned still knows there's 2 others behind him to cover his tackle fail. And sometimes it's just bodies you need to deter the attack. The risk is much lower. And you can utilize more roles. I especially like the libero. Fullbacks can also push further with less risk of being punished. Etc.

[Experienced Defender]

53 minutes ago, Warrenwwr said:

3 at the back..aka no wingbacks? Wish I could make that work in a tactic!

I use such type of tactic with Southampton 

[Warrenwwr]

1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:

I use such type of tactic with Southampton 

sounds good, post a screenie then!

[Experienced Defender]

57 minutes ago, Warrenwwr said:

sounds good, post a screenie then!

Unfortunately, I cannot post a SS because I play FM on another person's PC (when it's available to me), but I can instead present my preferred tactic - the one I use in most of my Southampton matches. The formation is 3-2-2-1-2 (the only wide players are wide mids). 

PO     DLFsu

AMsu

WMsu                                    IWat/su

VOLsu/at     HB

CDde    CDco    CDde

SKde

Team and player instructions vary due to my tendency to tweak tactics here and there, but let's say that my average tactic boils down to this:

Positive / play out of defence, higher tempo, work ball into box ... / counter, distribute to CBs / higher DL; standard LOE, use tighter marking, prevent short GKD

Essentially, this is what I call my basic/primrary/starting tactic. Then come tweaks and adjustments 

 

[Warrenwwr]

48 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Unfortunately, I cannot post a SS because I play FM on another person's PC (when it's available to me), but I can instead present my preferred tactic - the one I use in most of my Southampton matches. The formation is 3-2-2-1-2 (the only wide players are wide mids). 

PO     DLFsu

AMsu

WMsu                                    IWat/su

VOLsu/at     HB

CDde    CDco    CDde

SKde

Team and player instructions vary due to my tendency to tweak tactics here and there, but let's say that my average tactic boils down to this:

Positive / play out of defence, higher tempo, work ball into box ... / counter, distribute to CBs / higher DL; standard LOE, use tighter marking, prevent short GKD

Essentially, this is what I call my basic/primrary/starting tactic. Then come tweaks and adjustments 

 

Hah! That is incredible

Hb on the DMCR...wow! Didn't think of that one. Niice

[Experienced Defender]

14 hours ago, Warrenwwr said:

Hb on the DMCR...wow!

Most of the time HB. Sometimes anchor.