Struggling with ac milan second season strikerless tactic

[Jack722]

I'm going with this sort of look:

-------------gk(d)

Cwb(s)---cd(d)--bpd(d)--wb(s)

-----------------a(d)

---------------bbm(s)-dlp(s)

-----------ss(a)---ap(a)---ss(a)

Control, fluid

TI's:

Roam from positions

Work ball into box

Close down more

Be more expressive

PI's

Gk-distribute to full backs

Wbs left + right- shoot less often

Bbm - shoot less often 

 

So about half the time this tactic works perfectly- there is constant movement with players making intelligent passes to each other and eventually a through ball finds one of my ams in the box to score. However, the other half of my games im either dominated or even worse, my players can't find any space and we end up taking harmless lingshots as no one makes runs into the box. I find this typically happens in games where I'm supposed to win, especially 3 at the back. My recent home form is 19th best and I'm currently 8th.

I'm hoping one of you guys can find an obvious mistake in this tactic or give me ideas as to what to do when I cant break teams down.

I can post screenshots later of games or the tactics and players if you would like.

 

 

 

 

[sipsi]

I haven't tried AC Milan this year and I can't see your current team so I can't come to a conclusion but I'll try to help in general.

I understand the idea behind your tactic and find it beautiful. On the other hand I'm a bit conservative while playing with old giants.

Here's what I'd play with default AC Milan squad:

4-2-3-1 Control, Flexible GK(D)-DR(Fullback-S)-DLC(BPD-D)-DRC(CD-D)-DL(Fullback-S)-MLC(BBM-S)-MRC(BWM-D)-IFL(S)-APM(S)-IFR(S)-AF(A)

High Tempo, Fairly Wide, Slightly Higher, Play Out Of Defence, Prevent Short Gk Distribution, Tight Marking, Get Stuck in, Closing Down Sometimes, Pass into Space, Shorter Passing, Be More Expressive, Run At Defence, Roam From Positions, Whipped Crosses.

The most critical player will be the defending midfielder. I'd recommend one with good anticipation, positioning, decisions, tackling.

[WhyMe]

What have you tried when things aren't going well?  For example have you tried dropping your AP's duty down to support or tried changing one the SS's to a treq for more movement or the AP to an enganche for a central pivot?  Equally have you tried changing the further back midfielders roles?  My guess is that by having all three AMs on the same duty that when a team sits back to defend you lack the movement to break them down.

[Jack722]

I've got some screenshots here

 

[WhyMe]

Sorry can't see them due to lack of valid security certificate apparently.

[Jack722]

48 minutes ago, WhyMe said:

What have you tried when things aren't going well?  For example have you tried dropping your AP's duty down to support or tried changing one the SS's to a treq for more movement or the AP to an enganche for a central pivot?  Equally have you tried changing the further back midfielders roles?  My guess is that by having all three AMs on the same duty that when a team sits back to defend you lack the movement to break them down.

My dm was originally a defensive mid but I changed him to an anchor man because he was getting low ratings and I needed someone to cover the defence while everyone else was roaming from position. I like the bbm because I find he makes good late runs into the box and gets one on one chances (shame he can't finish). I sometimes change the dlp to a roaming playmaker but I'm not really sure if it made any difference to the results. I've thought about changing one of the ss to a treq, I guess that a treq would be better at finding space. You made a good point about the duties, I think changing the ap to a support duty might give him more space to pick a pass out and see the runners ahead of him. What do you think?

[WhyMe]

I wouldn't necessarily change the starting tactic as you have said it works some of the time.  Basically you need a plan B for when it isn't working so well.  It depends on how flexible your players are really and if they can play multiple roles.  For example, you could try having a midfield of DM = DLP-d - he controls the play from deep providing a recycling of possession option when your forward players aren't getting anywhere.  CM = BBM with either a CMS or BWM-s both could be good options for providing runners from deep and either a creative option or ball winning option or both with the right PIs.  Another advantage would be getting the two play makers further apart so you don't get lots of short passes between them i.e. you have one deep and one advanced PM.  Alternatively if your advanced play maker is getting marked out the game you could make him an AM-s with creative and movement PIs so he doesn't draw the ball so much but tends to get it in better positions (AP-s has hold position by default).  This could work well with a Treq as he is a play maker so would draw the ball.

In other words there are lots of options you just need to try one of them as a plan B for when your main strategy isn't working.

If you have the players for it I would suggest

DLP

CM-s BBM-s

SS-a AM-s T-a

as the first place to start but you will probably need to add some PIs to the AM-s and CM-s to get them to be more creative.

It might not work but it gives you a starting point from which to experiment when things aren't working.

A good alternative would be to make the CM-s a BWM-s and give the wing back on his side an attack duty.  Both of these options will give you different angles of attack and could be useful as a plan B.  Hope this helps.

[Jack722]

39 minutes ago, WhyMe said:

I wouldn't necessarily change the starting tactic as you have said it works some of the time.  Basically you need a plan B for when it isn't working so well.  It depends on how flexible your players are really and if they can play multiple roles.  For example, you could try having a midfield of DM = DLP-d - he controls the play from deep providing a recycling of possession option when your forward players aren't getting anywhere.  CM = BBM with either a CMS or BWM-s both could be good options for providing runners from deep and either a creative option or ball winning option or both with the right PIs.  Another advantage would be getting the two play makers further apart so you don't get lots of short passes between them i.e. you have one deep and one advanced PM.  Alternatively if your advanced play maker is getting marked out the game you could make him an AM-s with creative and movement PIs so he doesn't draw the ball so much but tends to get it in better positions (AP-s has hold position by default).  This could work well with a Treq as he is a play maker so would draw the ball.

In other words there are lots of options you just need to try one of them as a plan B for when your main strategy isn't working.

If you have the players for it I would suggest

DLP

CM-s BBM-s

SS-a AM-s T-a

as the first place to start but you will probably need to add some PIs to the AM-s and CM-s to get them to be more creative.

It might not work but it gives you a starting point from which to experiment when things aren't working.

A good alternative would be to make the CM-s a BWM-s and give the wing back on his side an attack duty.  Both of these options will give you different angles of attack and could be useful as a plan B.  Hope this helps.

Thanks mate, this has been really useful, I'll give these ideas a go when I get back.

[Kingkestrel]

I'm currently In my fifth season with AC Milan which has been very successful and trust me when I say I'm no master on FM (FM 16 & 17 haven't been that great for but this file is excellent).

In my 4 seasons thus far: first season finished 2nd, second season finished 2nd (came second to Juve on head to heads and had +12 goal difference) and won the EL, third season finished 1st and won the CL, fourth season finished 2nd and lost in the final of the CL.

 

This is the current strategy and formation I use and the one I've pretty much used in all four of my seasons, strange to see that we both have Kessie he is absolutely outstanding but as you can see he's a ball winning midfielder for me which personally is absolutely vital In this league. I very rarely change my team shape from fluid but when I do I go flexible possibly against the bigger teams away from home, I haven't perfected when to deploy this yet but my fifth season this will be one of my main focuses.

As you well know Seria A is an extremely defensive league but I have no defensive midfielder and as mentioned before Kessie is a ball winning midfielder and not even a defending one he's supporting and always has been he doesn't even play their naturally but he's outstanding and still joins In with attacks, he has at least 6 long shots a game of course very few go in but this wins me lots of corners , If you sort your set pieces out before every game this could give you the edge. Believe It or not my defence is solid and I concede very few even with my attacking strategy.

I personally I feel you need to remove the defensive midfielder and perhaps use an out an out striker or change the formation completely, I like your team instructions but I wouldn't have roam from position and be more expressive one or the other is plenty attacking. It seems you have ultra attacking team instructions with an ultra defensive formation which will cause problems for sure. In the seria A I've come up against lots of teams that play a flat back four with 2 DM's sitting In front and sometimes with two wing backs as well even at their home which can be very awkward to break down. I really feel you need an out and out striker and wingers in this league more then any other.

The team instructions I give I have never changed only adding prevent short GK distribution in the second season as Donnarumma does have a knack of dallying on the ball at times and making silly short passes as good as he is. Roam from positions, run at defence and close down more are the ones I've always stuck with and served me well. Also If you do deploy a ball winning CM then you need a very good backup as they will get a lot of bookings and therefore suspensions but for me this is the key position in this league and you already have a very good one In Kessie. If the ball winning CM has less then 10 for long shots I'd give him a player instruction of shooting less often as he will shoot a lot.

I hope you haven't sold Niang and Bacca although it looks like you have with the current formation you're adopting, they are incredible and I mean incredible, I am jealous you still have Gomez though he is an outstanding centre back. Also get Calabria, Locatelli and Llamas in your first as soon as you can, top quality home grown talent.

 

Hope you haven't sold them.

[Jack722]

 

16 hours ago, Kingkestrel said:

I'm currently In my fifth season with AC Milan which has been very successful and trust me when I say I'm no master on FM (FM 16 & 17 haven't been that great for but this file is excellent).

In my 4 seasons thus far: first season finished 2nd, second season finished 2nd (came second to Juve on head to heads and had +12 goal difference) and won the EL, third season finished 1st and won the CL, fourth season finished 2nd and lost in the final of the CL.

 

This is the current strategy and formation I use and the one I've pretty much used in all four of my seasons, strange to see that we both have Kessie he is absolutely outstanding but as you can see he's a ball winning midfielder for me which personally is absolutely vital In this league. I very rarely change my team shape from fluid but when I do I go flexible possibly against the bigger teams away from home, I haven't perfected when to deploy this yet but my fifth season this will be one of my main focuses.

As you well know Seria A is an extremely defensive league but I have no defensive midfielder and as mentioned before Kessie is a ball winning midfielder and not even a defending one he's supporting and always has been he doesn't even play their naturally but he's outstanding and still joins In with attacks, he has at least 6 long shots a game of course very few go in but this wins me lots of corners , If you sort your set pieces out before every game this could give you the edge. Believe It or not my defence is solid and I concede very few even with my attacking strategy.

I personally I feel you need to remove the defensive midfielder and perhaps use an out an out striker or change the formation completely, I like your team instructions but I wouldn't have roam from position and be more expressive one or the other is plenty attacking. It seems you have ultra attacking team instructions with an ultra defensive formation which will cause problems for sure. In the seria A I've come up against lots of teams that play a flat back four with 2 DM's sitting In front and sometimes with two wing backs as well even at their home which can be very awkward to break down. I really feel you need an out and out striker and wingers in this league more then any other.

The team instructions I give I have never changed only adding prevent short GK distribution in the second season as Donnarumma does have a knack of dallying on the ball at times and making silly short passes as good as he is. Roam from positions, run at defence and close down more are the ones I've always stuck with and served me well. Also If you do deploy a ball winning CM then you need a very good backup as they will get a lot of bookings and therefore suspensions but for me this is the key position in this league and you already have a very good one In Kessie. If the ball winning CM has less then 10 for long shots I'd give him a player instruction of shooting less often as he will shoot a lot.

I hope you haven't sold Niang and Bacca although it looks like you have with the current formation you're adopting, they are incredible and I mean incredible, I am jealous you still have Gomez though he is an outstanding centre back. Also get Calabria, Locatelli and Llamas in your first as soon as you can, top quality home grown talent.

 

Hope you haven't sold them.

Don't get me started on bacca... In the first half of the first season he was absolutely incredible. Top scorer in the league and we were sitting comfortable in second only behind  a very strong juve side. And then after January came he just forgot how to score goals. I played a narrow 4231 where he was originally an advanced forward and I tried absolutely everything to get him scoring again, I changed his role, I changed the roles and duties of the am's, I dropped him for lapadula (who was even worse), i told him I had faith he would get better before straight up telling him he's crap. The final straw was when both him a lapadula missed after being given the ball on the penalty spot by the other team and then bacca taking the most awful penalty I've ever seen on fm. This was during a run of 9 0-0 draws in 12 games. I finished the season experimenting with strikerless formations after dropping both strikers to the u20s. I finished 4th, missing out on the top 3 by losing 2-0 to inter on the final day (which was the decider because we were on equal points).

Locatelli and calabria are both incredible, but i regret leaving llamas out who is currently sitting in the reserves... What did you do with mastour? His puts in some real good performances off the bench but isn't quite in the same level as locatelli and co.

[Kingkestrel]

When you mentioned Mastour I had to type him in my player search which basically sums up what I done with him or more to point haven't done with him. He certainly hasn't set the world alight but he  has good stats which surprised me especially as an inside forward. Also keep bellanova.

 

Bacca can be very frustrating he does go through lean spells but then he'll pop up with a hat-trick against Juve then score match winning goals in the next 10 games.  I always played him as a complete attacking striker, ironically though he wasn't a complete striker at all especially In terms of assisting his team mates he basically just scored goals. He always picked up better positions as a complete striker and is deadly playing on the shoulder of defenders. He always had poor ratings too but If he's scoring an average of 25 league goals a season and never picks up injuries he is gold dust. My team hasn't been the same since I let him go.

 

 

Not sure why this screenshotted twice won't delete for some reason either, just wanted to add that I sold Lapadulla after 3 seasons and he started tearing It up for Atlanta so think twice about letting him go.

[Jack722]

23 hours ago, WhyMe said:

I wouldn't necessarily change the starting tactic as you have said it works some of the time.  Basically you need a plan B for when it isn't working so well.  It depends on how flexible your players are really and if they can play multiple roles.  For example, you could try having a midfield of DM = DLP-d - he controls the play from deep providing a recycling of possession option when your forward players aren't getting anywhere.  CM = BBM with either a CMS or BWM-s both could be good options for providing runners from deep and either a creative option or ball winning option or both with the right PIs.  Another advantage would be getting the two play makers further apart so you don't get lots of short passes between them i.e. you have one deep and one advanced PM.  Alternatively if your advanced play maker is getting marked out the game you could make him an AM-s with creative and movement PIs so he doesn't draw the ball so much but tends to get it in better positions (AP-s has hold position by default).  This could work well with a Treq as he is a play maker so would draw the ball.

In other words there are lots of options you just need to try one of them as a plan B for when your main strategy isn't working.

If you have the players for it I would suggest

DLP

CM-s BBM-s

SS-a AM-s T-a

as the first place to start but you will probably need to add some PIs to the AM-s and CM-s to get them to be more creative.

It might not work but it gives you a starting point from which to experiment when things aren't working.

A good alternative would be to make the CM-s a BWM-s and give the wing back on his side an attack duty.  Both of these options will give you different angles of attack and could be useful as a plan B.  Hoe this helps.

  Just want to say a massive thanks to whyme because I took your advice with your suggested roles and I've played 10 games using the rough template and I've one 8 and drawn 2. I've moved from 8th place to 3rd. The best change I think was changing the anchor man to a dlp and moving my ap(a) to an am(s). The ball goes to my dm much more often and he is normally in much more space to pick out the best passes which really helps breaking down tough defences. I remember when my ap got the ball he was always being closed down too quickly to pick out a good pass or was too far forward to see other runners. I've also changed the mentality to attacking and the shape to flexible (Not really sure why but it helps) the best part is that I've scored at least 1 goal every game now. there were quite a few teams who would park the bus and normally grab a late goal to beat me that I've played recently and now I can create much better chances against them.

20 hours ago, Kingkestrel said:

 

 

[WhyMe]

5 hours ago, Jack722 said:

 

  Just want to say a massive thanks to whyme because I took your advice with your suggested roles and I've played 10 games using the rough template and I've one 8 and drawn 2. I've moved from 8th place to 3rd. The best change I think was changing the anchor man to a dlp and moving my ap(a) to an am(s). The ball goes to my dm much more often and he is normally in much more space to pick out the best passes which really helps breaking down tough defences. I remember when my ap got the ball he was always being closed down too quickly to pick out a good pass or was too far forward to see other runners. I've also changed the mentality to attacking and the shape to flexible (Not really sure why but it helps) the best part is that I've scored at least 1 goal every game now. there were quite a few teams who would park the bus and normally grab a late goal to beat me that I've played recently and now I can create much better chances against them.

 

Glad it worked, happy I could help.