Tactical help wanted: strong in the league, weak in cups

[jens_dewit]

Hi all,

this is a tactic I first used for my MLS career:

The problem: it has won me the supporter's shield (regular competition) with so much ease. The problem is that it failed me in the US cup as well as the play off final. So I decided to try it with Tottenham (since they have the perfect squad for this type of set up) to see if it was the tactic that is flawed or if it was just one of those things that happen in FM (we've all had our unlucky resultq, right?). Turns out that it's only half good as Tottenham is doing decent in the league (4 wins, 1 draw against ManC, 1 loss) but those victories were hard fought. It was again the cup run that made me come asking for your help: went out in the Europe league playoffs against Jablonec (2-2a) and 4-3 to Everton in the first round of the CO cup.

Am I overlooking something vital? Is there an apparent flaw that i am missing?

I have tried playing around with fluidity and mentality, but standard and balanced have so far given me the best results. I have also tried changing the A to a DM (a), with little succes.

Another thing I've tried is changing the InF(s) to InF(a), with the CML(a) becoming CMR(a), AMCR APM(s) to the AMCL position and changing the W(a) to W(s). The full back roles and duties were changed accordingly. (This is basically swapping the central midfield around, sorry if I am being hard to follow).

Any help is appreciated.

Edit: I seem to often struggle against 442 formations (stole my titel, the bugger)

[Matthew2]

I think there is too much space in your midfield. Picture the players movements in your head. Once the mcA pushes forward there is a massive gap behind the attacking midfielders and in front of your anchorman who due to his role won't push up/press. I would imagine your logic behind putting the anchorman there is to protect the defence as your mc is attacking, however due to this there is an ocean of space deep in midfield for the opposition to exploit. Can you imagine IRL someone like Pirlo using that deep space to run the game? Your attacking movement is o.k. but IMO 4-2-3-1 only works really well when the two mc sit. it allows you to control games better and protects the defence. In fact I have, had some success using the two mc's on def duty in this formation recently.

[jens_dewit]

I thought that as well, but when watching the games, the MC appears to stay behind until the AP has dropped back, thus creating a situation where the MC is virtually in an AM slot, and the AP is playing in an MC slot. I might give the DM another shot though.

I am afraid that giving the MC a defend/support duty and putting the AP on attack, will cause the MC to be useless in attacking situations while the AP might not attack the box.

[Matthew2]

Keep in mind though that even if the AP drops back to MC position occasionally he still will not help the Anchorman out defensively, so you only have one midfielder that defends (the Anchorman). Your fullbacks are attacking, even though Walker is on Support look at his preferred moves! You're vulnerable to counters. Personally I think your AM should be on attack duty. BTW why do you not want to use 2 MC's and an AM in this tactic?

[jens_dewit]

Some good points you make.

I really felt, when trying a 4231, that it was far too leaky (especially with Vertonghen surging upfield with his ppm). As for the AMC: I found that the supporting AP (especially when I used Adu in the MLS) did wonders for the stability in midfield. But you might be right nonetheless.

Maybe I should try a DM(d) and a supporting MC instead...

[jens_dewit]

I have dropped the AMC into the MCR posotion and have made following changes:

CM(a)->DLP(s)

AP(s)->AP(a) (with roaming to get him further forward)

IF(s)->IF(a)

W(a)->W(s)

AF(a)->CF(s)

Very good results so far (y)

[jpcote09]

You also have to keep in mind that most of the players will approach a cup match differently from a league match as far as mental state is concerned. Some will find cup matches more stressful, others will get complacent , all depending on a number of factors. I have just been reminded of that. My team is strolling through the league, 5 wins 1 draw in the 6 first games, 23 goals scored... And guess what, we play what should be an easy cup match, and although we play fairly well, we lose 0-1 after a 93rd minute goal which was questionably allowed to stand (haven't watched the replay but both my centerbacks got booked for arguing with the ref for offside). **** happens. But only in cup matches it seems, as the next league game we play is against the same opponent, though now with the same tactics we win 4-1 and create 11 CCC's in the match.