FM 14 - Werder Bremen 4-1-2-2-1 review and constructive feedback

[Dreyer1991]

Hi all

I'm looking for some constructive feedback on my Werder Bremen tactic. I'll start by going through the tactic, then I will talk about what my thinking behind the tactic is. Last but not least I will go through what kind of players I have at my disposal and what kind of role I see them playing. I'm not exactly struggling ... yet. But I'm not entirely happy with how the tactic plays and I'm hoping the forum can help me out. At the end of the thread I point out what sort of problems I'm having, but they won't make much sense unless I explain the tactic first, I think. I realize I've written a lot, but I really hope you will take the time to look at it. I've tried to keep the information relevant.

The Tactic

Team Instructions

Okay, so first of all it's a very aggressive tactic in defense. When the ball is lost I want the team to push on. That's why I've chosen the "Much Higher Defensive Line." I've also chosen "Hassle Opponnent" because I believe that if the team doesn't close down aggressively then the high line will result in disaster (e.g. fast strikers and wingers tearing me apart on lofted through balls). The reason the "Stay On Feet" instruction is on there too, is that I don't want my players attempting any risky 50/50 challenges because when I push up so high a missed challenge could leave me incredibly open to an attack.

Strategy

I have chosen attacking because I want some incisive and purposeful passing when we get the ball. Especially because I hope that we sometimes will win the ball high up the pitch and in those situations I want my players to make passes and runs that make sense and not move the ball around pointlessly.

Fluidity

The reason I have chosen Rigid is that I believe that the mentality structure it provides is the best for this kind of system. I want my defenders to be close to my midfielders and my midfielders to be close to my striker. I believe Rigid does this, but I could be wrong. In addition to the mentality structure the Rigid philosophy limits the amount of creative freedom my players get. The reason I want to limit them is that very few of my players make good decisions on the pitch. In my ideal line-up the only two players with some decent creativity and decision making are Aaron Hunt with 16 for creativity and 14 for decisions and Albin Ekdal with 13 for creativity and 15 for decisions.

Player Roles

Raphael Wolf

GK - Sweeper Keeper - Defend

I have chosen this role because I play with such a high defensive line. I don't want my keeper to be afraid to venture out of his box to clear those long lofted through balls that I inevitably will face from time to time. I believe he has the ability to do this as he is relatively quick and adept at rushing out. I have chosen a defend duty because I don't really fancy his playmaking abilities or distribution for that matter. He has personal instructions to distribute to defenders. The player has no PPM's

Theodor Gebre Selassie

RB - Full Back - Attack

This is a vital player in my tactic as his primary duty is to stretch the play when the Advanced Playmaker tucks in. I have considered making him a Wing Back but I think there is a bit more defensive stability to a Full Back. The player is very quick and pretty good technically so he should be able swing in a good cross from time to time. He quite a few PPM's. They are Runs With Ball Down Right, Gets Forward Whenever Possible, Plays One-Twos, Does Not Dive Into Tackles, and Likes To Switch Ball To Other Flank. He's trying to unlearn that last one.

Sebastian Prödl

RCB - Central Defender - Defend

This one is pretty basic. He's a good player defensively but hopeless in his passing. I have chosen Central Defender because I don't want him wasting possession constantly by either trying to clear the lines or making something happen. He has the PPM's Gets Into Oppossition Area and Tries Long Range Passes. I am eager to get him to unlearn the latter.

Luca Caldirola

LCB - Central Defender - Cover

Again pretty basic and he has the same basic skillset as Prödl although Caldirola is a bit better at passing out from the back and has better positional awareness. Caldirola is not as strong or quick as Prödl though. I have chosen to switch his duty to Cover because I hope that it will make me less vulnerable to those lofted through balls. The player has four PPM's: Plays Short Simple Passes, Tries To Play His Way Out Of Trouble, Stays Back At All Times, and Does Not Dive Into Tackles

Santiago García

LB - Full Back - Support

The left backs job in this tactic is to offer an easy outball on the flank when we attack and help stretch the play becaus the inside forward infront of him will tuck in. He should also offer some stabilty. I think the left side would get torn apart if the left back attacked too. That is why i have chosen a support duty. He has one PPM: Dives Into Tackles

Peer Kluge

DM - Defensive Midfielder - Defend

The primary function for him is to protect the back four and cover for the Right Back when he ventures forward. He has four PPM's: Plays Short Simple Passes, Looks For Pass Rather Than Attempting To Score, Plays No Through Balls, and Stays Back At All Times.

Albin Ekdal

RCM - Deep Lying Playmaker - Support

I want this player to be my secondary attacking outlet. When we get the ball he should be the player who shifts the ball around the park until spaces open up and there is room for that decisive through ball. The reason he is on the right is to create balance when the Right Back pushes on. His PPM's are Dictates Tempo and Dives Into Tackles

Cédric Makiadi

LCM - Central Midfielder - Attack

In attack this player's job is to offer a goal scoring threat by supporting the striker in the box. He is a decent finisher and quite composed. In defense he should harrass the opposition when they are on the ball. The reason i placed him on the left side is that my Advanced Playmaker is a left footer on the right side. In theory this should make it easier for the LCM to be in the blind spot of the defender when the AP plays angled through balls. He has the PPM's Gets Forward Whenever Possible, Places Shots and Dictates Tempo. I'm not to keen on the last one for his role, but I don't know exactly what it does. He is to old to unlearn it.

Aaron Hunt

AMR - Advanced Playmaker - Support

This is my main creator. He should tuck in early on in an attack then he is the best position to carve the opposition open and play the through balls for my striker, the onrushing midfielder and the Inside Forward. He has the PPM's Cuts Inside, Plays One-Twos and Avoids Using Weaker Foot

Eljero Elia

AML - Inside Forward - Support

Elia is a wonderful dribbler and very quick but beyond that he is pretty daft. I want him to run at defences and I believe the best for him to do that is if I help him find the space. I have tried to do that by putting him on support, which should mean that his starting position is a bit deeper and thus further away from a defender. This should give him space to turn and start running at defenders. He has personal instructions to dribble more and shoot less. His PPM's are Runs With Ball Down Right, Runs With Ball Down Left, and Cuts Inside.

Nils Petersen

ST - Advanced Forward - Attack

This is probably the position I have struggled with the most. My best striker is Nils Petersen. He is very good at finding space, good in the air and a terrific finisher. He does, however, have rather poor technique and I don't think there is much sense in getting him too involved in the build-up play because he's just not good at it. He is a pure finisher. I have chosen Advanced Forward because his main duty will be to score goals but I'm afraid the role could see him isolated. He has the PPM's Plays With Back To Goal, Moves Into Channels and Shoots With Power.

Problems

The manager

I watch my games on Full Match and I really try to spot if there are glaring issues but I struggle sometimes because I get frustrated and then tactics sort of goes out the window and the thoughts that go through my head at that point are something on the lines of "PLAY BETTER YOU STUPID GERMANS! IF I CAN DO IT ON FIFA YOU CAN DO IT HERE" and that never seems to help. I'm afraid to chop and change because I truly believe I am on to something with this tactic. The reason I am posting this is that I hope some of you can help me point out if there are some bigger issue with my tactic and point out if I am wrong in some of my assumptions. I should mention that my team is not yet fluid in the tactic because I trained a tactic that turned out to be horribly wrong for most of pre-season. Also, there has been a bit of adjusting in my first games. The strikers role has shifted a couple of times. The duty of the left back and the left wing has also shifted around a bit.

Defence

Although I'm doing okay in the league (W5-D3-L2 and 5th after 10 games) I'm not entirely happy with how the tactic plays. I have some problems in defence. I give away a lot of clear cut chances from through balls. I believe that the issues could be that my two central defenders are pretty slow especially on the first few meters and they have low agility too so turning and chasing after a fast striker is a problem. I'm considering playing a defender who is quicker but much less positionally aware. Another way to go could be playing the Offside Trap but I've just never been a fan. A third option could be switching the Defensive Midfielder to Half Back to add stability. At times my entire team gets pinned back almost in their own area and if they win the ball they just panic and hoof it. The opposing team then picks it up and pin me back again. I think the hoofing has something to do with my defenders composure - or lack of composure. But maybe it's something with my tactic I just can't seem to spot it.

Attack

In attack there are som problems too. My striker gets pretty poor ratings and he has only scored one in eleven games. My reasoning behind playing him as an Advanced Forward is that he should mainly focus on trying to get himself into a position to score goals but I want him to move around to make sure he doesn't get isolated. I've also had some problems with my two playmakers who, at times, seem to play with very little purpose. They will just play the ball amongst each other a couple of times and then when I think something good is going to happen they knock it back to the defensive midfielder.

I guess that's it. This is my first post and it's a bit longer that I would have liked, so if you have read all the way down to here and plan on commenting with some constructive criticism then you truly are a hero.

[RonnySanchez]

I think that your record of 5 wins and 3 draws and 2 losses is good, given the team at your disposal

Your setup is logical and I think that you have got the most of your team

If you want to keep playing attacking, which by the nature of it is prone to leaving space for the counter then what I would do I this situation is to go even more attacking, put that guy Elia on IF(a), switch the position of Ekdahl and Makiadi. Put Aaron Hunt in a Central AP(s) position and put Selassie on a CWB(a) or WB(a).

But i think that is necessery that you develop a defensive tactic also, with this tactic you might go 3:0 up and then let in 4 goals afterwards, it seems dangerous

[Guest]

Are you conceding a lot of goals over the top? Attacking with a very high defensive line and Caldirola(Who I believe is painfully slow) and Prodl whose acceleration is poor might be asking for trouble.

Edit: Just read you are having issues with defensive pace, this will continue tbh till you find players who suit your high line, but tbh will happen anyway. I know how frustrating it can be to have 5 ccc's and then get beaten by the one ball over the top the oppo seem to get.

Nils is tall with a great jumping ability and heading and yet the only person who will put a cross in regularly is the right back. Have you got anyone who can play as a winger? Or have you tried hunt on an attacking duty? He can cross he can dribble and on attack he might try and put the odd cross in too. Also Nils plays with back to goal? Does that suit him as an advanced forward?

Also does Makiadi and Elia not operate in the space?

[Dreyer1991]

Thanks for the reply

RonnySanchez, good point about going even more attacking, and it would make sense to move Aaron Hunt to a more central are. The reason i haven't done it is that I think it could result in my team being very vulnerable down the right side because I'm not sure Hunt would track the opposing left back, but it is certainly worth considering. I think you are right that I need to develop a more defensive tactic too.

Crazy_Ivan, so far this season I have conceded 14 goals. 3 came from a through ball from a counter attack and 2 came from a through ball following a prolonged build up play from the opposition. So it doesn't look too bad. That being said I really do look quite vulnerable especially down the channels between centre backs and full backs. I have tried removing the Much Higher Defensive Line and Hassle Opponnents but there still seems to be a lot af space to exploit in the channels. Maybe it has something to do with my full backs positioning. Very good point about Nils Petersen. I hadn't really considered what sort of impact Plays With Back to goal had on an Advanced Forward. I will try changing Hunt's duty and maybe find a more stationary role for Petersen.

[Dreyer1991]

Also does Makiadi and Elia not operate in the space?

The channels? Or are you asking if they operate in the same space as each other?

[Guest]

The channels? Or are you asking if they operate in the same space as each other?

I meant Elia will cut in a lot and with support duty possibly end up taking up a space Makiadi might want to move through? To be honest you imo you have laid out your vision quite nicely and you can't argue with your results. Keep up that pace and you will lose around 7 to 8 games in the season and I think that's very good with what you have. A few tweaks here and there and maybe some individual instructions to try and achieve what you want.

To be honest your goals conceded from your high line seems very good. It must be from you being pinned back that you are finding the problems. I have started trying to focus the attacking threats down areas where the oppo are weakest and am doing a lot better because of it. If the oppo are using two strikers then personally I would get a dm to take up a half back role and help out your defence.

[Dreyer1991]

I think you're right about Makiadi and Elia and maybe I'll switch the two central midfielders. I've experimented with the DM position playing as Half Back. It seems to give some defensive solidity, but then he doesn't really offer much going forward. When we attack the Half Back stays so far back that he basically plays as a third centre back. Sometimes when I'm hit on the counter it looks like I'm playing with a flat back three, the half back being the third center back. And they are easy to exploit when they have people running at them. I'm happy to hear that the tactic seems decent. It's important because the players really aren't very good.

[Dreyer1991]

I have started trying to focus the attacking threats down areas where the oppo are weakest and am doing a lot better because of it.

Do you use the "Exploit the x flank" shout or is it a question of player roles and/or players?

[Jean-Luc]

Fluidity

The reason I have chosen Rigid is that I believe that the mentality structure it provides is the best for this kind of system. I want my defenders to be close to my midfielders and my midfielders to be close to my striker. I believe Rigid does this [...]

As far as I have understood, no, it doesn't.

Others please correct me if I am wrong, but the Rigid command tells your players to stick to their assigned roles like "DLP" and "AP" and so on. If the guidline is more fluid, they will interprete these roles vaster. It seems to me almost as if a Fluid play basically overrides the assigned roles and turns them into simple "attack"/"defend" roles.

I think to have your defenders close to your midfielders, you should have something like "Play more narrow". Or, indeed, actually the high defensive line should work for you quite well already.

@ Attack

I think your problem might be that you have two people in wider roles who both are not really suited to play wider roles and both want to cut inside. This is by the way one of Werders real problems: There's too little impact coming from the advanced midfield. Hunt is in a certain way a playmaker, but he prefers to roam around instead of playing decisive passes forward or through balls. Not sure what his stats are - maybe you can train him the "Tries killer balls"-PPM?

In any case, I wonder if the Diamond might not be more suited for Werder. You could play Hunt in a central position then and he might have more impact, and you coulp put Garcia on attack which is something he should be quite nicely capable of (if his FM-stats resemble his real ones).

Also: Maybe the "Advanced Forward" is what it says - too advanced?

Have you tried tinkering around with that role? A Deep Lying Forward or a Complete Forward instead? Then you might create more often situations, where all 3 offensive players arrive at the box at the same time, in the best case supported by your attacking fullbacks.

@ Defend

My guess might be that the hoofing has to do with very poor passing and creativity abilities of your Central defenders. Which again, is one of Werders real life problems. So if they get under pressure, they neither have the skill nor the imagination to pass the ball to another player. I personally have also had some problems dealing in the past with a "Cover" and a "Defend" position. It created a lot of situations where attacking forwards whizzed through, because the defence was not on the same line. But that might be me and my tactics.

Half Back (or Anchor Man) would, in my opinion, be a very good idea. You don't really need the role of DM there, your creative game opener should come either out of defence or from your DLP in any case. So the role of Kluge in your case is purely defending. If at the same time, you have Full Back who love to strive forward, why not support the defence with a third man? Where's Kroos by the way? Have you sold him? I think he plays this role at the moment in real life. Makiadi should also be an option, he's not the most forward-creative person anyway.

[Dreyer1991]

As far as I have understood, no, it doesn't.

Others please correct me if I am wrong, but the Rigid command tells your players to stick to their assigned roles like "DLP" and "AP" and so on. If the guidline is more fluid, they will interprete these roles vaster. It seems to me almost as if a Fluid play basically overrides the assigned roles and turns them into simple "attack"/"defend" roles.

Okay, I just think I read somewhere that Balanced is the philosophy with the biggest gap in mentality between attacking and defending duties. That is something i would like to avoid. I think that would be more suited to a Counter strategy.

In any case, I wonder if the Diamond might not be more suited for Werder.

Funny you should say that. Since posting the thread I have moved on to two new tactics, both contain a diamond. I have a classic 4-4-2 Diamond and a 3-5-1-1. My reasoning was that Hunt should be in a more central area to cause trouble for the opposition. He plays Advanced Playmaker - Attack in the AM spot. There's also the added benefit of having to strikers. Franco di Santo is the other striker. He plays a Deep Lying Forwad - Support to Nils Petersen's Target Man - Attack. The team has really improved, they create more CCC's and they seem way more solid in defense.

García is very capable going forward and depending on the opposition he does play on an attacking duty. I agree that a lot of the hoofing could be down to defenders not being able to pick out a pass. But in the 3-5-1-1 we more often than not have a spare man at the back who gets time on the ball to start attacking moves.

Where's Kroos by the way?

He starts out in the reserves on FM. I've moved him up, but his FM-stats are not really anything worth mentioning.

[Double0Seven]

I run almost the same tactic. I also like to hunt for the ball. I play as Newcastle United and use a BWM and a stopper defender. Both have excellent ratings and have high tackle success %. This helped me a lot to prevent high through balls. Creative enemy mids never get enough time to pass the ball unless they are very good. I also like to play with Fluid mentality. Don't know why but it works.