zonalmarking.net Discussion

[Jenko_EFC]

I thought we could keep all zonalmarking.net discussion in one thread . We could also try and replicate what they're saying into Football Manager. For those that don't know zonalmarking, they produce alot of articles based on football tactics. I know it's not the latest article but I thought Diego Maradona's was a pretty good one. Always amazes me how some managers would go to some lengths to ensure their key player has everything possible to succeed tactics-wise.

Higuain has performed very well for Real Madrid so is a definate starter, 4 at the back with no attacking fullbacks and Gutierrez dropping back to help defensively means he has the whole right-wing to attack, Mascherano and Veron controlling the centre with Di Maria being the threat on the left.

[SFraser]

That was a good read.

It will be interesting to see how Maradona's defensive fullbacks actually pan out. Obviously the defence will be more solid on the counter and the opponent will have to play infront of a back five with little opportunity to get in behind the central three players, however his attack will have far fewer numbers which will mean it is easier to mark and deal with Messi, while also producing far less problems of overloading critical areas of the pitch and freeing either Messi or whoever is playing off Messi.

As the article says attacking fullbacks are arguably the most important part of the team, able to overload wide positions in attack and construct attacking play through the channels between Fullback-Centreback-Defensive Midfielder. In FM these zones are particularly ripe for attack, with good passes from midfield into strikers running the channels creating chances, or good runs from Wingers/Inside Forward into the channels creating chances. The attacking Fullback essentially pulls across the opponent Fullback, which lets Wingers/Inside Forwards attack the Centreback, which in turn creates space for runners from midfield or the opposite flank or good movement from strikers.

Playing defensive Fullbacks doesn't negate this threat from the opponent. As Manchester United v Bayern Munich and Inter v Bayern Munich shows you need disciplined and well organised and aggressive Wingers working in conjuction with your Fullbacks to nullify this threat, keeping your Fullbacks free to defend the channels or to prevent overloading of the flanks, and by playing defensive Fullbacks you lose your own ability to overload the flanks of opponents.

And again Inter v Bayern showed that if the opponent attacks you, has undisciplined Wingers that do not track back, you can counter-attack and expose the fullbacks using a traditional number 10 without using your own fullbacks, but only if the opponent is comitted to attacking you and you break with pace and accuracy. Argentina's system looks solid and lethal for this kind of play, but how many sides are going to attack Argentina and over-commit players and leave gaps or play with undisciplined Wingers?

I can see many of Argentina's matches playing out like the second leg between Inter and Barcelona, wasteful or ineffective wideplay from the Argentina fullbacks, facing a packed defense with Messi nullified through the centre through sheer quantity of opponents and lack of wide options. Alternatively everyone could think Maradona is off his dial, attack his side relentlessly and be exposed brutally on the counter, but that seems highly unlikely.

[fmguy]

I'm looking forward to the France tactics.

[Jenko_EFC]

When your group consists of Nigeria, Greece and South Korea you won't worry about them attacking for obvious reasons, should they counter the most likely place would be down the wings as Mascherano and Veron's presence in the middle should neutralize any attacks there, with defensive fullbacks and wingers you have stability down both sides and although Di Maria is on the diagram I believe he could/should play Tevez, a more hard-working, better defensively but still good offensively player.

Looking at one of their opponents' shape Greece:

Read about here.

The 'Messi' area is well covered as we see but the ability to 'flip' the formation would be a possibility and the multi-functional Messi can play many positions too meaning the possibilies are almost endless! Greece's shape with attacking fullbacks will leave lots of room for Messi and Di Maria to attack and with Higuain in such form they will not strugglle for goals I feel.

Teams parking the bus is the major concern but when Argentina have so many players back it's going to be hard to counter and will get many 0-0's as well. Higuain's role is important, he could be used as an advanced player and hope to replicate his club form or 'take one for the team' and play deeper providing through balls to Messi/Di Maria. If the latter Sergio Aguero could come in and would do better I feel.

[Lightig]

@fmguy

Well, after playing during two years with a 4-2-3-1 which was unefficient, it seems that we are heading to a quite offensive 4-3-3. But this tactic has only been played in two friendly matches so far. As a french guy, I'm glad Domenech finally does something offensive but I just hope it's not too late

[SFraser]

Aye but the problem is that Messi cannot play all those roles at the same time, and if you look at the Greece formation, if the two wingers man mark the Argentina wingers then Greece have SEVEN back to deal with Messi and Higuain. Getting a point off of Argentina puts the rest of the teams in a very strong position to qualify, and if Argentina get two draws, two stalemates they might not even qualify for the next round.

Argentina might look strong for the knockout stages, but there is a league to get through first and they cannot afford to be playing cat-and-mouse against teams that are hoping for a point off Argentina and then a win against someone else to qualify. They need to go out and win two matches against sides that are going to park the bus.

[Jenko_EFC]

Aye but the problem is that Messi cannot play all those roles at the same time, and if you look at the Greece formation, if the two wingers man mark the Argentina wingers then Greece have SEVEN back to deal with Messi and Higuain. Getting a point off of Argentina puts the rest of the teams in a very strong position to qualify, and if Argentina get two draws, two stalemates they might not even qualify for the next round.

Argentina might look strong for the knockout stages, but there is a league to get through first and they cannot afford to be playing cat-and-mouse against teams that are hoping for a point off Argentina and then a win against someone else to qualify. They need to go out and win two matches against sides that are going to park the bus.

Agree totally but Di Maria, Gutierrez, Veron will all presumably be involved in the attack leaving 5 vs 7, a perfect time to call-up fullbacks but with defensive ones, it is going to be hard to beat them, Messi can't play lots of roles at once obviously but what he can do is feature at different games differently giving a new dimension to each game, I highly doubt Maradona would be foolish enough to play this system in the group stage or against small teams but is their probable plan A.

Plan B, may well be overload, replace Veron, Mascherano and Gutierrez for Tevez, Milito and Aguero and you get a host of attacking options and overload them. You won't dominate the midfield as much but will not need to against teams playing seven defensive players. That would be my plan B and possibly Maradoana's!

[Jenko_EFC]

Found this about Holland on zonalmarking.

Back to a back four according to the website. Looks an amazing front line with Kuyt on the bench if needed. The back line will be interesting due to the number of goals they conceded in previous World Cups.

They had amongst the most impressive results of any of the 31 sides who qualified for this tournament. In an admittedly weak group, they had a record of eight wins from eight games, 17 goals scored and two conceded.

Pretty good eh, don't see the need to go defensive but they did have an easy group and played 4 up-top I believe. Very attacking fullbacks though which could be key when opposition park the bus and play narrow.

[SUCK IT]

This Holland formation is one I am looking forward to seeing in the World Cup. Robin Van Persie seems as if he will have alot of freedom to roam to find space and exploit any frailties at the back. He will also provide support for the extreme powerhouse engine of Robben to run onto the ball. He will also have the option of the extremely creative and exciting Van der Vaart. This guy as we all know has a great shot on him and Van Persie is someone he needs around him to lay off the ball. This attack seems as if it will be very potent. Van Bommel and De Jong contrary to what zonalmarking says, I believe will play as two defensive midfielders, with Van Bommel being given the option to push up in the attacking phase. De Jong will stay back primarily in my opinon as an Anchor man, and then lay it off to Van Bommel or Sneidjer. Sneidjer as we all know can pick a pass from anywhere, through ball, lofted through ball he can do it all. Sneidjer has three outlets open to him all with extreme creativity. It is something I believe he and the Holland fans will be licking their lips at and just dreaming of the posssibilites that will be available to Sneidjer

I hope you enjoyed reading my insight

Regards Alex

[Jenko_EFC]

Alot of creativity in the side, may be biased but Heitinga could be useful. This season we (Everton) have finally stopped 'hoofing' the ball due to his immense passing (FM rates 14), his ability to pick out the likes of Steven Pienaar and Landon Donovan while he was here was superb to watch and very refreshing. He could be useful when finding the likes of van der Vaart, Sneijder and the like. Kuyt is also an option when attacking and could provide something different!

[zychan1]

Yes, Heitinga can pick a good pass and he is also an option for RB or DMC. Unfortunately I can't see how Kuyt can contribute offensively, especially with Afellay, Elia and Babel waiting on the bench. For me he provides balance to the team with his hard running up and down the flanks, but nothing more. Upfront, Van Persie is a much better option, and even as a target man, Huntelaar offers a better goal and aerial threat. Still his stamina and workrate is admirable, but sadly he is not somebody you would turn to to change a game.

[Jenko_EFC]

I'm looking forward to the France tactics.

Here.

Gone with a 4-1-2-2-1 apparently with Anelka playing a 'false 9' role, attacking fullbacks, Ribery cutting in and Malouda playing a sort of deep-lying playmaking role.

[Kawee]

Yes, Heitinga can pick a good pass and he is also an option for RB or DMC. Unfortunately I can't see how Kuyt can contribute offensively, especially with Afellay, Elia and Babel waiting on the bench. For me he provides balance to the team with his hard running up and down the flanks, but nothing more. Upfront, Van Persie is a much better option, and even as a target man, Huntelaar offers a better goal and aerial threat. Still his stamina and workrate is admirable, but sadly he is not somebody you would turn to to change a game.

Despite all that, now that Robben is injured, I expect to see Kuyt playing the right-winger role.

[Jenko_EFC]

Despite all that, now that Robben is injured, I expect to see Kuyt playing the right-winger role.

Or not, van Persie could play as a second striker with Huntelaar up-front which would be pretty good. Kuyt as I said is an option when you're after a defensive forward/winger. So many options for the Dutch!

[zychan1]

Or not, van Persie could play as a second striker with Huntelaar up-front which would be pretty good. Kuyt as I said is an option when you're after a defensive forward/winger. So many options for the Dutch!

I think I would rather Afellay play at AMR and leave van Persie alone up front. So far he's been excellent playing in that lone striker role for Arsenal and Holland and they've looked much more menacing with him than with a conventional target man striker like Bendtner or Huntelaar. Like I said despite his obvious qualities, I am not a fan of Kuyt and if Holland are going to go with 2 defensive midfielders, I would prefer more attacking options like Afellay, Elia and Babel. Maybe he can come on to protect a lead, but definitely not to start.