JEinchy

November 11, 2022

My two cents on the tactic:

Low block/High defensive line is asking for trouble. You're inviting teams up the pitch while leaving space in behind. By the time your players engage, the opposition will have played a pass into the space, and you'll spend more time chasing back towards your own goal than attacking.

If the goal is to get the ball to the forwards quickly, you should first identify where you want to win the ball as this will define where your attacking transition will start. For example, you can drop the CMs to DM, then use a combination of OIs and PIs to funnel the opposition into the middle where those DMs will snap and win the ball back.

DMs/CMs work a bit differently this year. You'll notice most AI tactics using double DMs when they used to use CMs. That's because they push up higher now and act more like pivots. You can easily play a 4-4-2 DM, which would help you defend that space, AND you can use a more aggresive role in the centre.

In general, your role choice, while simple, is too conservative. Your relying a lot on the forwards getting onto longer passes and holding it up because the FBs and WMs aren't going to bring the ball up that often. Good teams will pin you in.

November 11, 2022

Aggressive attacking tactics have always done well on FM, but you can dominate on lower mentalities as well, ESPECIALLY this year. They've tweaked how mentalities work. Whereas before you had no reason to play on anything other than Positive, you can now play on Cautious/Defensive and still be attacking with the right roles roles/duties.

Every new FM has a learning curve for me. What seems like a small change often proves important long term and requires subtle adjustments in approach year on year. Once I've come to grips with the ME, I feel in control of what my team is doing. There's an element of playing to the meta since it is just a game, at the end of the day, but every year it comes down to simple football logic.

I'm playing as Braga right now. I started out using a high block 4231 but the performances were patchy and things just didn't seem right. Turns out a bunch of my attackers had low work rate, teamwork and bravery, so we simply could not maintain a high press, on top of low composure and decisioms, so we couldn't camp and keep the ball well. Switched to a mid block and everything clicked into place. It's not because mid blocks are meta or OP or any other gamey thing like that, but because it suited my team better. Now they're more solid and have space to attack during transition when they have fewer decisons to make.

Once you've settled on an approach that works, it's then just about making small adjustments depending on game state.

I look at those "magic" tactics and just think half of those instructions are unnecessary.

November 12, 2021

17 minutes ago, Marinho said:

What's a good way to utilize AMCs that are not very athletic or not good dribblers ? AMC(S) and then custom instructions to play more like a playmaker ? (wasn't the Enganche still a role without hard coded "dribble more" a version or two back ? Was kinda surprised it isn't (anymore ?) )

I'd go for a role which drops deep into midfield, rather than tries to get into the box. AMC(S) and Enganche seem the best choices, though the latter requires an intelligent player and a specific tactic to pull off well.

For an AMC(S) role, since you've got a Mez(A) behind him, having someone there who can contribute in defense would be useful. So decent attributes for bravery, work rate, concentration and positioning, if you can find them.

24 minutes ago, Marinho said:

Is he utilizing his insane Long Shots ? Never really found a good was to consistently make use of that ...

He does score some bangers, but it's not something I actively try to exploit. If anything, he's more likely to smash one into row z than the top corner, due to his traits.

It happens more often in transition, after we've won the ball back. That's when he has the clearest sight on goal.

If I wanted to make more use of it, I'd go with a role that hangs around on the edge of the box more, instead of one that attacks it. From there, he could benefit from pull backs and pick up short clearances.

November 11, 2021

Suffice to say my AMC is having a fun time:

https://ibb.co/KwwZ9TV

On top of that, he's averaging 42 pass attempts and 5.5 key passes per 90.

I started out using him as a Treq in a 3-4-1-2 but found him to be inconsistent and not enough of a goal threat. I switched him to a SS and saw him running beyond my strikers, getting onto through balls from deep or out wide, which was more what I was looking for. I reckon someone with better off the ball and acceleration would score more.

He's playing behind a DLF(A) and AF. I love this combination because they work the channels and pull defenders in different directions, often creating a big gap in the middle for the SS to exploit with late runs or by providing the killer pass.

in the beta, I had reasonable success with a 4-2-3-1 using a front four of AP(S)-SS-IW(A)-DLF(S). Similar idea to the 3-4-1-2, except this time the AP is drawing players towards the flank in tandem with the DLF moving into the channel. Haven't tried in the full game yet but can't imagine it not working still.

In both cases, the two mids behinds the AM are more industrious than creative. BWM, BBM, CMs, CMd, etc. I try to avoid using a DLP or RPM there because they want to play longer passes out to the flank or over the top, often bypassing the AM altogether. Some players also come with PPMs like dictates play, switches to other flank, stop play etc. which are great for DLPs, but not ideal when you want an AMC to be the star of the show.

One thing I noticed while using a Treq was that he can drop deep between the two CMs when they split. For example, if you use a Mez and a Car together, they'll leave a big hole in the middle that the Treq (AP would do it as well) to drop into and receive the ball in a lot of space. I reckon this could work really nicely in a 4-4-2 diamond, with an Anchor Man holding the midfield down.

EDIT: Just wanted to add, the AMC can really benefit from a good pressing set-up. If you can regain possession in midfield, the AMC can either pick up the ball and launch a pass through to a striker, or make the run himself and be found by someone else.

September 20, 2020

3 hours ago, Cleon said:

Why focus on the rating above what he actually offers the team? Mezzala's are great but they have to fit and have a purpose in the side to bring the best out of them. I've used a Mez for 13 seasons on my Crewe save since League Two. But my system is set up to utilise his running from deep. He scores a lot and creates a lot.

And currently this season he's again the heartbeat and driving force of our attacks.

He doesn't take set pieces apart from the odd penalty if striker is out injured which you can see. The reason he is so involved is because the team as a whole with the system we use suits him and allows him to be a goal threat. The system isn't anything special, just a logical 4-1-2-2-1

Can I ask what the thinking behind using "waste time sometimes" is?

Is it just to spoil the game, or does it slow things down to allow more support in possession?

June 14, 2020

It's not "bad ME" as such but I have reported this issue in the bugs forum and it's been acknowledged as a problem the ME team are looking at. For me (and they agreed), the issue was pressing not disrupting their play often enough. Players will often run around like crazy trying to close down but the opposition defenders and midfielders are seldom flustered and always play the right pass. On top of that, the user team doesn't squeeze up to mark or block passing lanes when a high press happens, so there's always an option for the opposition.

The issue is exacerbated by Cautious and lower mentalities being risk averse, therefore encouraging teams to pass around their backs and two DMs with no intention of moving it forward. Teams on these mentalities can be too passive and not even launch counter attacks. Obviously, it's ridiculous that a team can play so much in their own defensive third without making a mistake or being forced into one.

One solution I did see, though I've yet to try this myself, is to play an attacking line of AMR-AMC-AMC-AML-CF and man-mark the two DMs, full backs and one centre back. This seems to help your players get closer to theirs and force more mistakes, though there's an element of brute force about it.

Otherwise, you have to lower the tempo, discourage dribbling and play on a narrower width so your team keeps the ball away from them, but potentially weakening your own attack.

I just ignore it, tbh. As long as I'm making good chances and winning the game, the fact the opposition doubled my passing count and the game thinks I was "under pressure" throughout the game are just weird curiosities in my eyes.

June 9, 2020

It's not "exaggerated" because even the AI with their wonky set-ups can get strikers scoring regularly. In my recent save in Holland, Dusan Tadic scored 33 goals and Myron Baodu scored 25 under AI management. I had a season where Lacazette scored 45 goals for Arsenal under the AI's management. In most of my saves, Aguero, Suarez, Kane, Lewandowski, etc. bag 20+ most seasons.

So if you're having recurring issues with strikers scoring consistently, the issue is unlikely to be with the game. It'll be more down to your system or your man management. The latter is often overlooked imo. If you have a system that's working well enough but your striker isn't scoring and putting up poor ratings, have you tried criticising their form at all?

Having said that, if the issue is recurring every season then I'd say it's a tactical one. You say you're making good CCCs but what the game classes a CCC isn't necessary the best chance your striker have. For example, nearly all 1v1 chances in the game as classified as a CCC even when most of them favour the keeper. You have to examine whether the shot is being taken from a good area (usually the centre of the box), how many opportunities he's getting in those areas, whether he's under pressure from defenders, and what foot he's striking it with to get to the bottom of the problem.

June 8, 2020

The 4-4-2 is just a fun formation to work with because it's easy to customise depending on the sorts of players you have.

I had a much more adventurous variation in my Sevilla save. Same roles and duties for the backline, but a midfield and forward line of:

WP(S) CAR(S) MEZ(S) IW(A)

PF(A) T(A)

Which looks a bit nutty on paper but the same principles of Overload > Switch > Penetrate apply. WP(S) works together with the CAR(S), the MEZ(S) plays closer to the IW(A) so he's not isolated, and the IW(A) penetrates the space. PF(A) and T(A) attack the box but can also drop off to support the midfield. I only played that way because I had Vision and Flair in abundance, whereas at Feyenoord I didn't so I simplified it.

I had an even simpler variation at Southend:

WM(S) BWM(D) CM(S) IW(A)

P(A) DLF(S)

Again, it's the same principles. One hard-working side to accommodate a more aggressive full-back, the other side is more creative and attacking, and the pairing up top is typical big man-little man.

If you're looking for something simple to work that can teach you about creating and using space, I highly recommend 4-4-2.

June 8, 2020

Used this in my first season at Feyenoord. Won the Eredivisie unbeaten and reached the semi-finals of the Europa League.

It forms a lop-sided 4-3-3 in attack. The WP(S) combines with the CM(D) and CM(S) to circulate the ball in midfield before switching it to the W(A) on the other side, who usually has a lot of space and gets 1v1 with his full back. My W(A) got 16 goals and 14 assists in all comps.

The WP(S) also has the option of the longer pass to the AF, or slipping the FB(A) in down the flank. The FB(A) can then cross for the two strikers of the W(A) coming in at the back post.

Right FB(S) told to Overlap so the W(A) doesn't become isolated.

I use High DL/LoE out of preference but you can easily lower them to turn this into a counter-attacking tactic.

June 7, 2020

The issue can be two-fold:

AI changing their mentality in games against you, and sometimes adjusting their formation;
Complacency coming from a wining run.

In the first case, the AI may use a Cautious mentality instead of a Balanced or Positive one. When they do, they tend to keep the ball better because they're taking fewer risks. This makes 4-1-4-1 and 4-2-3-1 trickier to play against due to their midfield numbers. If you're playing an aggressive, high-tempo system, you may end up with less of the ball than normal, less play in the opposition half and more bodies for your attackers to play through. This is why teams find scoring harder.

Meanwhile, while the AI won't create as many chances because of the lower mentality, it's more careful usage of the ball can help craft high quality chances. They can put together some impressive passing moves. Of course, aggressive systems are always vulnerable to counters and an AI Advanced Forward will exploit this on occasion.

The solution isn't to change tactics entirely, or to "confuse" the AI. It's to tweak your Team Instructions if Plan A isn't working.

Attacking Width. Wide will see more balls to the flanks and crosses. If the opposition have good defenders who can head the ball well, is crossing going to be that effective? Maybe trying narrower attacking width will work better against them. On the other hand, teams with poor defenders who can't deal with crosses well can be vulnerable to teams who play with more width.
Tempo. Higher tempo can hit teams fast and early, but it can also rush the play. Your attackers may take shots from poor positions because they're trying to do everything quickly. Sometimes, slowing down, waiting for a good run to be made, and making more considered decisions are the way to break a team down. If you're playing too slowly, then increasing the tempo can help.
Line of Engagement. High LoE is common for pressing teams but if the opposition can't come out, there's less space for your attackers. Sometimes, easing off the high pressing to let the opposition out of their defensive third helps create space. Let them out, win it back in midfield, then attack the space afterwards.
Counter-Pressing. Similar to above, do you need to be putting the opposition under pressure all the time? If they're poor on the ball, they'll give it back to you regardless. Sometimes, it's better to let them have it and make a mistake on their own than to force the mistake.

Sometimes, the issue isn't even tactical.

Mid-season is when the fixture list gets busier, so you rotate more. But are the players you're rotating in right for the roles they've been given? Are they as effective in your tactic as the first choice? This can lead to a reduction in performance. If this is the case, you have to be careful about your rotation policy and ensure your key players are fit for the right games.

Complacency is also an issue. Winning breeds over-confidence and your team talks/press conferences contribute to that. If you praise every win, morale goes up but effort goes down. If you lay into a team after every under-performance, the message becomes less effective. Varying your team talks and press conference responses can really help. If I'm on a winning run, I often say nothing at all and let the morale do the work for me. If we're under-performing, I might encourage instead of criticise. Or say nothing and let them sort it out on their own (you'd be surprised how often that works; sometimes your team is just unlucky in a game and needs a bit of time to correct it). Playing against a minnow you expect to beat? You can use Assertive or even Aggressive tones to get that point across.

How effective team-talks are depends on your starting eleven, too. Players who haven't played often can be more determined to prove a point. Young or out-of-form players can be more nervous and need encouragement. Telling a winning team to not be complacent for the next game can work when you're a few wins into a winning run.

So there's lots you can do to change it up, without having to completely reinvent the wheel. Even then, you can opt to do nothing. Sometimes, your team just goes through a blip but if your team, tactics and management are all good, things tend to right themselves with time.

June 4, 2020

12 hours ago, dekzeh said:

This thread has got me thinking about the teams that were successful while using 10's in real world, modernish, footbal, and my mind immediately went to Mourinho's Real Madrid (with Özil as the n10) that won La Liga with over Pep's Barcelona in 2011/12 breaking all sorts of records. That team played some beautiful football, deadly counter attacks and just super quick transitions in general. I'm trying to find some videos or articles on it but it seems there are very few and not much depth in the ones that exist. Anyone know where I can find some, or even some full match replays?

The one thing that sticks out to me is a very deep and safe double pivot in Khedira + Xabi Alonso, which goes hand in hand which what seems to work best in FM. I'm particularly interessed by how the fullbacks acted. The left side in special seems very offensive with Marcelo + CR7, whilst Arbeloa at RB was more conservative and di Maria was very hard working, if I tried to translate that to FM terms it'd end very lopsided I think. It also might be worth looking at his Inter side which had Sneijder doing a similar job.

If I were to make a very lazy attempt at recreating it, it'd be something like (from right to left): SK-De; FB-Su, BPD-De, CD-De, CWB-Su; BWM-Su, DLP-De; IW-Su, AP-At, IF-At; and then the Benzema/Higuaín role which I have no idea, but I'd start with CF-At.

I was curious about this and checked out a video of Ozil's assists while he was at Madrid. It's not a complete picture by any means but it gives us a rough idea of how that attack moved and linked-up. The way Benzema moved to make space for Ronaldo suggests a support role for him, so possibly a Complete Forward (S) or a Pressing Forward (S). Ronaldo was an Inside Forward (A). Ozil's role is trickier because I'd suggest Trequartista, but you know a Mourinho team wouldn't have allowed for one of those, so maybe an Attacking Midfielder (S) with Moves into Channels? That'd leave the right side being an Inverted Winger/Winger. I would have one of the full backs on a defend duty, because Mourinho in those days loved to have one full-back who bombed on (Marcelo, Cole, Maicon) and one who tucked in to form a back three (Arbeloa, Zanetti).

I'll try an experiment later to see what this kind of set-up can do for the AMC.

June 3, 2020

11 hours ago, Big Yellow said:

Mind posting your TIs?

11 hours ago, Jack722 said:

And what is the thinking behind the TI's? Do you think that AMC's play best in more possession based lower tempo sides like yours is? I feel like work ball into the box helps with trying to work a through ball oppertunity, but I'm not sure what else I'd use if I were to build a tactic for the AMC.

I'll answer these together.

The only TIs I'm using for this particular tactic are:

Shorter Passing - I want the midfield to see the ball as much as possible.
Play Out of Defence - My team has good ball-playing defenders and midfielders with good composure and passing, so using this helps me draw teams out.
Overlap Left/Right - Encourages my full-backs to be more aggressive while also curbing some of the reckless tendencies of the Inside Forwards in front of them.
Distribute to Centre Backs - Goes hand-in-hand with Play Out of Defence. Has the secondary effect of moving my midfield deeper during the build-up phase so they get on the ball sooner.
Counter - To increase our attacking threat and ensure we're not just all about passing.
Higher Defensive Line - To help us win the ball higher up the pitch and to get my full-backs joining the attacking transition sooner.
Offside Trap - To condense the space between the CMs and the backline.

Other TIs I like to add at some points during games:

Work Ball Into Box - If my team are taking too many shots from outside the area or from poor angles. This encourages them to slow down and look for better options, if available.
Lower Tempo - If my team is rushing their play too much and we're struggling to hold possession in the opponent's half. Slowing the play down can promote better usage of the ball.
Narrow attacking width - To encourage more passes inside rather than to the flanks. Again, used mostly to encourage better retention of the ball.
Dribble Less - If the Inside Forwards are getting too adventurous with their dribbling and ignoring better options, I'll use this.

If I have all four of those on, I'm looking to either see a game out or choke a team to death with passing.

From what I've experienced, the AMC has better ratings when he's involved a lot in the passing. I'm looking for 50 passes from him at least. If he's having a poor game, that number goes down to 20. That's when I know he's not getting the ball and have to assess why. When I checked out how the AI used the position, the best performers all had high passes per game. De Bruyne at Barcelona was getting 90+ passes from the AMC position, which just seemed

crazy to me.

This isn't to say the position won't work in a different type of system. The AM(A) or SS can be potent in high-pressing or counter-attacking set-ups where he'll have space to do his thing in the final third. The AM(S) and even Enganche can work in higher-tempo systems so long as there's movement around them. What I think is important is to identify what you want the position to do and then pick the surrounding roles to accommodate that. So if you want him to be the main creative hub, it might not be such a good idea to use a playmaker or Mezzala behind him because they'll attract more of the ball. If you want him to be a scorer, you have to think about who services him.

The TIs are secondary to this imo. They're not a magic bullet for making the position to work and you'll usually be fine by choosing sensibly for your playing style. All you need for a through ball is a player with the right attributes (Passing, Decisions, Anticipation, Vision, Technique) and a runner into space, which you can achieve in any set-up.

11 hours ago, Jack722 said:

I've noticed that you have used a conservative midfield 2, which seems to be the way to go when using a creative AMC. I also feel like it seems important to use an attacking striker. But what about your wide players? And what is the thinking behind the wide players? I worry about using inside forwards and inverted wingers due to them taking up the AMC's space.

In both examples I posted, I was playing with two Inside Forwards on support with overlaps (which puts their individual mentality down to Attacking instead of Very Attacking). This was because I was using an Enganche, who has Holds Position as a hard-coded PI, so he's going to stay central all the time while the IF(s) work the wide and half-spaces. I probably wouldn't use a Winger with one because there'd be nobody in the half-spaces.

Generally, the majority of wide roles will stay wide unless you've told them to roam or sit narrower. The IF and IW might dribble inside and leave the AMC in their dust as per their instructions, but I think you're fine going with whatever suits your team best.

11 hours ago, Jack722 said:

Also, which version of FM are you using? I'm using 19 and I wonder if the natural frequency of through balls occur any more or less depending on the version you use.

FM20. It's been a while since I played FM19 but I don't remember there being a massive difference in through ball frequency.

11 hours ago, Jack722 said:

Another common thing I have noticed when people use AMC tactics are the use of one striker dropping deep in a 4312 or diamond. Surely it would be best to have 2 attack duty strikers? This would mean that you have more runners for through balls and less crowding of the AMC area. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

In a narrow formation I'd usually have two attack duties up-front. However, you can play one on support, tell both your strikers to play wide and have the AMC come in through the middle.

June 3, 2020

I've been messing around with the midfield three in a 4-2-3-1 and managed to get the AMC to produce a couple of great through passes.

First example was a CM(D)-CAR(S)-ENG(S) combination. The Enganche had no PPMs.

Second example was a BWM(S)-DLP(D)-ENG(S) combination. The Enganche had the Tries Killer Balls Often PPM. I was also using low tempo, shorter passing and work ball into box during that game.

June 2, 2020

While the 10 position is trickier to get working this year, a look at the AI shows it still very much works. In my save, Arteta's Arsenal have had three separate players (Ozil, Otavio and Fekir) record double-figure assists as an Advanced Playmaker (S). In Spain, De Bruyne and Havertz have 18 and 16 assists respectively, both from the 10 position. Even smaller clubs are getting success out of the position - Morgan Gibbs-White has 10 assists for Wolves and Yacine Adli has 10 assists for Brentford.

From playing that Arsenal team, I know their AM drops deep in midfield and spreads the ball to their aggressive attacking players. To do that, the double pivot behind him were always industrial, physical players who, while good on the ball, weren't primary distributors of it. Crucially, this meant their AM wasn't receiving the ball on the edge of the opponent's box with his back to play, where he's more likely to get clattered by a defender.

The most common reasons the AM struggles to perform in FM20 is a lack of service (resulting in low passing numbers) and frequently losing the ball as a result of central crowding. So you have to either move him away from that area by encouraging him to drop deep, or open that area of the pitch by luring the opposition out.

May 31, 2020

42 minutes ago, camoulton21 said:

If I've understood correctly, O-zil has used the Very Fluid team shape to give his players the creative freedom to play a free-flowing style of play. How would you replicate this in the latest editions of FM? I want to base a tactic around a less successful Total Football inspired Arsene Wenger team, the post Invincibles Cesc Fabregas team which would obviously mean giving my team the freedom to improvise, move and express themselves

To focus on those three traits you mentioned, the Be More Expressive TI would be a good start, imo. Be More Expressive increases creative freedom by an unknown amount and also encourages more roaming.

Apart from that, I'd look to use as many roaming roles as possible, though which ones would depend on if you're going for the 2008 last hoorah of the 4-4-2 or the post-2009 4-2-3-1.

So for 4-4-2 maybe you'd have a Roaming Playmaker, a Wide Playmaker, a Wide Midfielder who can roam from position, a Complete Forward and a Deep-Lying Forward. This, I think, gives you an approximation of the roles Fabregas, Rosicky, Hleb, Adebayor and Van Persie played respectively.

4-2-3-1 is trickier. The AM would need to be very traits driven to get the same movement of Fabregas. The AML would probably be an AP(S) with roaming. AMR would be a Winger or Inside Forward on attack.

In both cases you're looking for a lot of support roles.

May 31, 2020

I'll focus on your 4-1-2-3 for now.

It looks fine. Since it's gotten you results there's no need to make major changes to it. You can try the following tweaks if a game isn't quite going your way:

Lower the tempo. High tempo is useful for hitting stubborn defensive teams before they can settle into shape, but it can result in your play being rushed. A more patient build-up can allow for support to arrive, your attacking players making better runs, and your team taking better care of possession.
Remove Hit Early Crosses. This encourages your full-backs to cross from deeper positions, just as the opposition defence steps up. It's a good instruction, but if the opposition have defenders who are strong in the air, is encouraging crossing really the best way to break them down? Sometimes, leaving it ticked off is better.
Change the attacking width. Similar to above, encouraging your team to play wide leads to a more cross-heavy approach. Playing narrower encourages your team to look for passes inside which gives the opposition something different to think about.
Pass Into Space. This is a very situational instruction because it's most effective when a) you have a good percentage of possession and b) there's space to pass into. It encourages riskier, progressive passes but it can result in careless use of possession, which isn't helpful if you have a low percentage of possession.
Change mentality. Positive is a good mentality to use, as it encourages more risk without being too gung-ho.

I guess what I'm saying here is that sometimes, a more considered approach to attack is more effective than trying to play hard and fast all the time. You can play the same way all season and be successful, but for me, tempo, width and approach play are things you can tweak based on the opposition.

Defensively, there're a couple of things you can try:

Change the defensive width. Defending narrower means giving up your flanks, which means your defence needs to be very good to deal with crosses into the box. They need to be strong in the air, especially. If you happen to be suffering from opposition crosses, this is likely why.
Line of Engagement. It's on standard at the moment, but it's worth thinking about the effects changing it can have. High Line of Engagement is good if you want to play the game in the opposition's half. Lower Line of Engagement is good if you're looking to draw a team in and counter-attack. You might want to try going higher or lower depending on the match; a stubborn defensive team can be encouraged up the pitch if you player lower, whereas a team that isn't good at playing out from the back can be forced into mistakes with a higher line.

Hope some of this can help you.

March 31, 2020

There are a couple of ways to go about this:

1) Brute force it - Hit Early Crosses + Run at Defence. The goal here is to unsettle the opposition by dribbling at them at pace, forcing them into fouls and giving you valuable set-piece opportunities. Hit Early Crosses encourages the ball to come into the box from a slightly deeper position, before the opposition can settle into their shape. Essentially, you put the ball into the box as much as possible and wait for the chance or mistake to come.

2) Let the opposition out - Lowering the Line of Engagement (but not the Defensive Line) will tell your team to allow the opposition into your half before pressing. A bottom-heavy team focused on defence will lack the offensive support to sustain possession in your half, and will eventually lose the ball. This is when you can a hurt them in transition. Pass Into Space, Hit Early Crosses and maybe even More Direct Passing can help take advantage of those scenarios.

Apart from that, the only thing I can suggest is changing up the roles.

If the double IF(A) isn't working, change one to an IW instead. Maybe have an attack duty in midfield to get someone attacking the box from deep. Or change one of the full backs to an Inverted Full Back to get them cutting inside rather than going on the outside all the time.

If the striker isn't getting involved, give him Roam From Position, or change his role to a more roaming role such as the Complete Forward or Trequartista. This can help vary his movement.

March 25, 2020

I'd recommend against trying this all at once, but here are a few things you could try:

Changing the mentality from Balanced to Positive. This would encourage your team to move the ball quicker and take more risks. Forwards love receiving the ball as early as possible, no matter the roles/duties they have.
Having only one of Distribute to Centre Backs or Distribute to Full Backs. With both of them + Play Out of Defence, your whole backline and midfield three are going to be in your half during goal kicks. While this gives you plenty of support during the build-up phase, the ball will spend a long time circulating in your half before it reaches your frontline. By that point, the opposition will have settled into their shape.
Remove Work Ball Into Box. The trade-off for reducing long-shots is slower play in the final third + increased risk of being countered (any loose pass in this scenario is dangerous since your players will be bunched up on the edge of the opponent's area). Unless you have a team with great passing and composure (relative to your level), I'd recommend leaving it off, and only using it if your side is taking too many long shots.
Changing the DLF(A) to a PF(A). The Pressing Forward will still offer himself as a passing option but attacks the box more aggressively than the Deep-Lying Forward.
Alternatively, swap out the Winger for an Inverted Winger and change the IF(S) to an IF(A). You need players attacking the box if want to score goals besides long shots and set-pieces.
Other useful instructions: Run At Defence, to encourage dribbling if the passing game isn't working; Hit Early Crosses, to get in behind deep defensive blocks before they have a chance to settle; and Be More Expressive, if nothing else is working and you need a boost in creativity.

March 24, 2020

On 22/03/2020 at 22:26, JEinchy said:

I'll report back when I've got a bigger sample size.

Just to follow up on this.

This is what I came up with after spotting a few problems with my original version.

Firstly, the original tactic used More Urgent pressing, which saw a lot of players run around like school kids without actually accomplishing anything. This allowed opposition teams to have comfortable possession and create more chances against us than I would have liked, so I toned it down. The impact has been dramatic: a far more solid defence, fewer chances conceded, and plenty of traps being set for the opposition.

Secondly, the original had a CF(A), but I dropped him to the Attacking Midfielder role due to this:

Ideally, I wanted my CM(A) to be higher up, closer to the front-line, because I already had plenty of players back to help with the build-up phase. Unfortunately, the only way to do this was to stop playing out of defence altogether, which kinda defeated the purpose of this tactic. Switching to a 4-2-3-1 would have solved this quite easily, but I wanted to stick with the 4-1-4-1 shape because it suited my midfield better (I lack the all-round midfield presence for a good double pivot). I could have changed one of the wide players to a playmaker role, but again, personnel dictated I use wingers or forwards. Hence, I went strikerless.

Possession-wise, this approach achieves about 51%/500 passes in most games against all types of set-ups, so it's not a true "tiki-taka" approach. That said, there's plenty of movement and overloads going on.

The CM(A) (with Move Into Channels) links with the IW(S) and the IWB(S) to create passing triangles on the right. Any one of these three can be in a position to play a killer pass or shoot.

The AM(A) and CM(A) can overload a lone DM, or occupy space behind the midfield to confuse an opposition defence, in turn creating space for the IF(A).

The IF(A) can overload an opposition full back with the WB(S) thanks to the Overlap TI. He, the AM(A) and CM(A) can all be targets for crosses as well.

March 24, 2020

24 minutes ago, retrodude09 said:

Besides removing "Gets Further Forward" from PIs, I'm not sure what the difference is between an Inside Forward on attack & support? Maybe a slight mentality decrease under the hood.

From what I see, there's a subtle difference in their positioning and aggression. The IF(S) receives the ball a little deeper and will look for runners before going to goal, whereas the IF(A) receives the ball higher and is more likely to dribble someone or shoot. The IF(A) is a little lazier coming back for defence, too, but balances that by being a great outlet during transitions.

The "Very Attacking" mentality is there to distinguish the role from the Inverted Winger. How we used to use an IF(S) is now done by the Inverted Winger, so the IF(S) is now closer to a forward (as his name suggests) than a winger.

The Overlap/Underlap TIs reduces the IF's mentality, so there's at least one way or curbing their aggressive tendencies.

Incidentally @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! I've been experimenting on FM20 with the Be More Disciplined TI on Attacking mentality and have been seeing a structured style of play. I've no idea how much this TI changes Creative Freedom but I do obverse a significant difference in playing style with it on. For instance, playing an Attacking 4-1-4-1 with Shorter Passing, Higher Tempo and Be More Disciplined produced 700+ passes in a game (and 4 CCCs, so it wasn't all sterile). Granted, I'd only do this with a team packed with flair and creativity, and not with a team of kids like you've been doing, but it's been an interesting experiment in balancing high risk, attacking play with positional discipline and more considered decision making in possession.

March 22, 2020

I've spent most of FM20 playing more direct football with rapid transitions (lots of 3ATB and two forward formations), but I had the urge to go back to a more possession-heavy 4-1-4-1/4-3-3 thanks to this thread.

I'm trying something a little different to @crusadertsar set-up, but we're off to a good start:

The pick of the goals:

Girona were playing a 4-1-4-1 as well, but with a MR and ML. I've found this to be one of the most stubborn defensive formations this year, especially combined the big passing numbers you can get on lower mentalities. Typically, a game like this for me might still end 4-0, but with 300-400 passes vs their 600+. For us to out-pass them and still create four CCCs is very encouraging, especially when two of those chances were tap-ins created by low crosses from the wingers and full-backs.

I'll report back when I've got a bigger sample size.

March 21, 2020

Depends on your players, but two ways I would approach this:

1) Direct 4-4-2

4-4-2 is one of the best defensive formations because of its even spacing across the pitch. If you have the right forwards, you can cause a lot of damage to opposition teams who will give you lots of space because they think you're easy. An example set-up would be:

Mentality: Positive
In Possession: Higher Tempo, Hit Early Crosses
In Transition: Counter, Regroup, Throw It Long
Out of Possession: Standard or Higher Defensive Line, Standard or Lower Line of Engagement, Get Stuck In

GK (D)/SK (D)

FB (S) - CD (D) - CD (D) - WB (S)

IW/W (S) - CAR (S) - CM (D)/DLP (D) - WM (S)

AF (A) - TM (A)/PF (A)

This system aims to draw teams in, force a turnover in midfield and then hurt them in transitions with a direct pass up to the two forwards. Even if you're forwards are on the slower side, they can still do damage in 2v2 situations during transitions. It's easily adjustable, too. The CMs can drop into the DM zone for extra defensive protection while the wide players and full backs can be made more aggressive by being given an attack duty, or by making use of the Overlap TIs.

2) Any variation of a back three

3-at-the-back is great because it's a bottom heavy system that provides defensive cover without needing to play on lower mentalities or load the team up with conservative roles and duties. This means you can play more aggressively in attack and still feel secure. Any back three you use requires good wing-backs with decent Acceleration for whatever level you're playing at. Here's an example 3-5-2 (or 5-1-2-2 as the game calls it) I've been using:

Mentality: Positive
In Possession: Fairly Narrow, Shorter Passing, Higher Tempo, Hit Early Crosses, Play Out of Defence, Overlap Left/Right
In Transition: Distribute to Centre Backs, Counter, Counter Press
Out of Possession: Higher Defensive Line, Higher Line of Engagement, More Urgent Pressing

SK (S)

BPD (D) - CD (D) - BPD (D)

WB (S) ---------- DLP (S) ---------- WB (S)

MEZ (A) - MEZ (S)

PF (A) - AF (A)

Similar to the 4-4-2, the goal is to get those two forwards facing the opposition with space, but we do this slightly differently. Rather than rely on transitions, we lure the opponent in with possession and then spring the two midfielders and forwards when the space opens up. This method needs good passing and composure.

Alternatively, if you're feeling adventurous:

SK (S)

BPD (D) - CD (D) - BPD (D)

DW (S) - BWM (S) - BBM (S) - DW (S)

PF (A) - P (A) - PF (A)

Gung-ho, get the ball into the box for three strikers approach. Not something I'd recommend normally but it's a fun and surprisingly effective way to play - albeit with more risks than usual. I used this a with team tipped to go down in League 1 and finished third.

Hopefully you get some inspiration from this. Some general tips:

Even if you're an underdog, you still need to score goals. The opposition will give you space, so seek to exploit it.
Two attacking roles in the front-line lead to more potent counter attacks.
Shorter Passing is handy if your team are poor passes, as it reduces risk and helps them keep the ball.
On the flip side, Direct Passing should probably be avoided because it'll lead to too many turnovers from poor passers.
Unless you have turtles in your defence, don't be afraid of high lines. The further you can defend from your penalty area, the better.

March 18, 2020

If counters are the problem, you can try:

Regroup instead of Counter-Press
Lowering the Line of Engagement
Changing the DM to a defensive role

One potential issue with your set-up is the number of players in advanced areas who, without the ball, will leave their positions to press. If teams manage to play out of this pressure, the lack of defensive cover on the flanks is ripe for exploitation. One good pass could cut out six of your players and get opposition forward attacking the wide spaces.

This is where Regroup/Lower LoE can be handy because it'll encourage your players to become a tight mid-block out of possession. With your players closer together, you're less exposed and have a higher chance of picking up second balls.

In theory - and I stress the theory part because FM doesn't always work as it does in reality - a DLP(D) with a back three should create a solid block of four behind the ball to safeguard against counters as well. As it is, you're leaving just three defenders to deal with it because the DLP(S) will push higher up the pitch. You've already got five players doing that - does the DM really need to as well?

March 18, 2020

I used this shape with Southend in League 1 and almost got promoted in the first season (bottled in the final day, sadly). I took inspiration from @Rashidi for the roles.

When I used it, I found it had a big weakness to crosses to the back post area, as the DWs won't always come around on the cover to mark someone. I don't know if that was a consequence of the players I was using or a limitation of the role itself, but it was nonetheless the most frequent method of conceding goals for me. The 4-2-3-1, in particular, gave me major headaches in those areas of the pitch.

On the flip side, we scored 71 goals with a group of teenage strikers barely League 1 level, so it was a potent set-up.

I'll echo the advice in this thread by saying those DWs need to be more like wing-backs than anything else. They're vital in providing crosses for the front three while also needing to cover their flanks defensively. Fortunately, a lot of full backs and wing backs already have this skillset.

I experimented with the roles up top. PF(A)-P-PF(A) worked well as the Pressing Forwards more out wide and into the channels a lot, so you don't just have three players waiting in the box all the time. I sometimes used an asymmetric front-line as well, with an IF(A) on the left flank, a PF(A) in the middle and an AF(A) to his right, with the intent being too generate different kinds of movement up there when the crossing wasn't working. I'm not a fan of support roles for strikers in this FM, but they can be good for getting them to help out more in defence.

March 15, 2020

Matches like this are the worst:

Sevilla won the game 1-0.

Playing on a Positive mentality with More Direct Passing and Higher Tempo (using a 4-4-1-1 with two DMs - far from a super tactic), Sevilla destroyed Getafe. 2 of those 3 CCCs within the first five minutes, hit the woodwork several times, squandered one on one opportunities... and the only goal coming from a set-piece.

Meanwhile, look at those passing statistics! At one point I was playing 25% of the ball. At home. To a relegation team basically playing anti-football.

Know what my ass man recommended I say to the players after the game? That their performance was disappointing. Because we didn't win the game 7-0 like we could have done.

I don't demand big wins, but it'd be nice to get one or two a season if my team is a) really good and b) playing really well.

(And before someone says it: yes, I know this happens in real life. It happens more frequently FM, with broken passing stats to boot)

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