Incubus89
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Posts posted by Incubus89
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Haha probably the first time I've ever really tried to do it properly and not just bung in wonderkids wherever. The two strikers I've got coming through are both really promising, stats look awesome but seem to struggle to get going. The defenders and centre mids have been outstanding. A class of '93 is what I'm aiming for definitely.
Yeah just really random. Real sold Rodrygo and Vinicius Junior and loaned in Liam Delap (who has not developed at all) and then bought Lewandowski (physicals are pretty much all under 10) to replace them. Barca sold everyone and just kept loaning in players from City and Liverpool, which maybe why they've finished 7th twice now.
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Thanks mate, I'll have a go tomorrow when I get back from work. Currently navigating a transfer window on my Sociedad save. Just transitioned by letting pretty much all my first team players except Oyarzabal, Le Normand, Remiro and Merino go and letting my wonderkids come through. Fingers crossed we're still going to be dominant in Spain. Also, if you've played in Spain, have you noticed Real and Barca make some really weird transfers?
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Yeah it does suck but it's well paid so I'll take it for now! Do you have a link to how to create gifs to put on here btw?
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If I get the chance this weekend to work out how to do it I will! Working four 12 hour shifts in a row (on day 2) so will do it asap.
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Ok so an update with the Wycombe save. We finished 9th in the first season in the Prem which I was really happy with. In our second season Ryan Gauld had just been relegated with Bournemouth so managed to pick him up for £11m and Mitrovic from newly relegated Fulham for £9m (thank god for relegation release clauses). Switched the tactic to have a trequartista (Gauld) behind an AF and they have formed such a deadly relationship between Gauld's creativity and Mitrovic's finishing and heading. Thank you for bringing Gauld to my attention!
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I went to see if I could pick him up for my Wycombe side as we attempt the Prem after going on a Scottish shopping spree. His value has shot up to £33m so might have to cool it on that one.
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18 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:
Lukaku & Werner at Chelsea could be interesting in FM22
Definitely! Feel like Firmino and Salah should work but then again pretty much anything does so not really a fair test!!
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1 minute ago, Johnny Ace said:
I think so, absolutely, just PF's & DLFs are loads easier to find but even having a season to play about in, it's finding a team with a suitable AMC.
Oh those are the exact players I'd play there 🤣. What kind of team are you looking to play?
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5 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:
Just the same one as before, in the Premiership now & the AMC's are all doing pretty bad with the AF(A) thriving. The IF's got his act together this season too
Yeah, a big, strong, grafter DLF(S) or PF(S) paired with a fast & skillful SS(A) or AM(A) is the plan. I suppose it's not something you see in real life, I just thought it was interesting
Would a CF(s) work? I sometimes use the role on players I know aren't quite up to it because it results in some different behaviours than you'd expect. I did it in League 2 on a slow player but with good technicals and mentals for the level. His movement was so weird but did the trick.
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12 minutes ago, Tsuru said:
Normally I like to have two strategies: an attacking one and a counter one. This is for bad moments during the season, bad moments during a game or even for harder matches, and it is a simple of way of surprising our opponents. It is much easier to play against us when we have only way of playing. So I will use your TI ideas for the 4-2-3-1 and build a 4-2-2-2 counter one, I think this plan B can suit us very well.
I never used Positive with HIgher DL+LOE, but maybe without pressing instructions (TIs or PIs) we will do fine, I will go that way.
Honestly you could use the same TIs but drop the midfield back, so a 4-2-2-1-1. I used that instead and it works great. Picked off City, United and Liverpool with that.
Overall, I think they work well as a combo, especially with players dropped back. It's a defensive formation but still gives the players a bit of freedom to be adventurous enough to try a few different things.
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15 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:
The far post headers are deadly
Pretty good over a season, instead of the SS getting the lion's share of goals like an AF(A) they're shared between the SS & PF but overall, it scores less. The ideal combo I'd imagine here is like a Diego Costa & Messi, imagine the carnage with a pairing like that
I've been trying an AMC(A) with PF(S) in FM11, Lampard & Drogba & that was fun, but that's the sort of system I want to get running. It worked terribly in FM21 with Melbourne so it put me off a bit but the players were no where near that quality so I'm not surprised
They really are, whoever plays there just seems to ghost in and knock it in. I played a 16 y/o regen called Moussa Sow there on his Sociedad debut and he netted a hat trick! It was like no one cared he was there.
That's a shame because I love a shadow striker! That pairing would cause chaos!
What are you using at Melbourne at the moment?
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2 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:
I can't remember to be honest, I think I kept the save so I'll post the result later if I can
I used to love a W(A) & AF(A) in 4-2-3-1, it's like playing with two strikers at times
Exactly, like I said to @Tsuru it can be tailored depending on your players. I've been trying to flip the 9 & 10 so it's a bit more adaptable to teams with a slow striker, use him as the 10 & have a deeper number 9. I think the SS(A) & PF(S) is the best combo but not as effective as the original.
Honestly I love the W(a) and AF combo, especially if it's a winger who cuts in or with decent heading, they are just never picked up!
I never really got how to tailor it until these last few saves. But this works a treat. How is that combo getting on? I only ever got it working how I wanted it by offsetting the AM and ST.
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2 minutes ago, Tsuru said:
Yes, this is the kind of thing you say "hey, why I never thought about it?". It makes a lot of sense as it looks a very simple strategy to open space with smaller teams which lack technical resources to do that.
Another question, did you ever feel defensively unsafe with your team using Positive mentality plus Higher DL/LOE? I mean, when you play like that you expect to suffer some goals from a high line, but sometimes FM is harsh about that and your team looks very vulnerable. I suppose this was not a problem as you had a lot of success...
That was the plan, keep it simple and get it to the more creative players and try and open up source then pray they are smart enough to make that move!
I won't lie occasionally we'd occasionally get battered by bigger teams so that's when I dropped the midfield back a strata. It really helped with minimising goals. It would sometimes feel shaky but then again I was playing as not so good teams so never sure if that is tactic, player or morale.
Positive with high LOE and DL felt solid with the players dropped back and felt mostly fine with standard 4231.
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8 minutes ago, Tsuru said:
Thanks, I will test with the focus, I think it makes sense as we play with CM-D/CM-S, which are not very creative roles. Then I will give a feedback here about how it went.
With Newcastle as the example it meant Fraser and Saint-Maximim were getting on the ball more and creating space by dragging people around, cutting it to their full back to cross or pass and move or they would find Almiron in loads of room who had time to shoot or play in Wilson.
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10 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:
I feel boring when I see the systems put together by some, I like the simple stuff
It was very similar to what I used in FM20 so it should hopefully continue
Though, I did try something with Bayern, accidentally left Muller as a SS with Rob as an AF on a holiday run & they both absolutely blitzed the league. I felt like I cheesed the ME a bit but I suppose with Bayern, they have the players to deal with an overly risky setup
I'm glad this thread has helped you with some FM success @Incubus89 How did you set your wing players with your Trequarista?
I'll do it again for FM22, hopefully the AMC can still live strong(ish)
Definitely! It does get boring, with this being so simple you can make little tweaks that make big differences!
I mean Bayern is so strong that like you said you can be that little bit riskier with what you're attempting. What were you gonna set them to?
The wingers were an IF(s) which sometimes became an IW(s) depending on the player and then a W(a) which is normally my second highest goalscorer. Oyarzabal gets 20+ a season from there. Then an AF in front.
Really hoping it is because I plan on taking forward! Was pretty much always plug and play before this but now feel I can create and adapt!
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2 minutes ago, Tsuru said:
Thank you very much for your ideas, this is exactly what I am looking for. I will test it here for sure.
Just a question, is there any specific reason to use Focus Play? Maybe it is an open space strategy, I was just curious about it, it would not be something that I would set up from the start
Honestly it was because my wingers were slightly more creative and midfielders were more ball winners so seemed to fit. Plus like you said it stretches the play which seems to give the AMC more room. Let me know how it works for you! You could definitely change the focus, that was the only bit that was team specific.
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Just now, Johnny Ace said:
That's fantastic @Incubus89! I'm just hoping it transfers over to FM22
Me too!! I've never been able to get an AMC to work in FM but now every save I try I seem to be able to get some level of overachievement by using things from this thread!
With Newcastle got 4th first season and 2nd the next. Almiron was awesome as a trequartista but got forced out in end by some ridiculous regen. Then my Sociedad save I've stopped because 5 La Ligas on the bounce felt like enough!
I think I read something that said if the tactic is based on sensible football theory then it will transfer. Only seems to be if you're trying to break/game the ME.
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40 minutes ago, Tsuru said:
Hi @Johnny Ace, I came back to this topic looking for specific help not to use the formation but to create a more specific playstyle. And as you are kind of an AMC/4-2-3-1 specialist here, maybe you can help me
Of course that anyone that want to help and/or play on a similar way can also help me.
This the base set, simple as we have discussed before:
I want to play an intense, quick and fast attacking football - more Klopp than Guardiola, if we can resume
I prefer 3, 4 quick passes instead of 40. I know I have to start from the scratch as I am playing lower league, so the system will have to develop besides I can hire better players (so maybe I will have to refine it step by step). And also I think we cannot afford too much risk, because although our defence is good, it is of course not a world class one.
I thought about Balanced mentality, Higher Tempo, Counter/Counter-Press, Higher Defensive Line and Higher Line of Engagement with a split block (the 4 men at the front with "Press More" PI). Maybe it is too risky? Would you go another way?
I can also consider a 4-1-4-1 DM Wide too, with the AP-At being the third man in midfield, a DM and more adventurous fullbacks.
Thank you for your all ideas and help, this thread is quality.
Hey, I know I'm not @Johnny Acebut I have just been doing a save in the lower leagues like this. Same set up as you but different TIs.
I use: positive, play out of defence, focus left, focus right, counter, sometimes counter press, roll out, higher LOE and DL. Only thing I change against stronger opposition is dropping the CMs to DM and AML and AMR to the ML and MR positions.
With that I managed to get Wycombe promoted second season with no investment other than a couple of loans. And Grimsby to the championship (hoping to get the playoffs this season).
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36 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:
Yeah, sometimes, adding more threat to your team has you conceding less, not sure myself why either
Guess it stops the AI playing out from certain areas of the pitch or something
Re: the FB/ WB thing, I only play wingbacks with a DM, just as a rule of thumb thing for me but as player quality increases, you can "get away" with certain things & be more risky/ less solid without any hindrance. I was reading back some of the things I was doing in a 4-2-3-1 at Bayern in FM19 & because I'd built a ridiculously good squad, I could get away with most things
I was planning on staying in L1 another season or two but every other team lost the plot & I've ended up going up too early
I guess teams maybe get more wary about the higher threat and back off a little. With Sociedad my full backs are Junior Firpo who I kept getting on loan and then the original right back Gorosabel (who I never see talked about but he's fantastic!) and had them since season 1 but both get into double figures for assists and pin back the opposition, definitely not complaining though!
I only put the FB(S) on WB because I saw the opposition getting space on the flank because he was hanging back and leaving a gap. I remember that thread, was really helpful. Yeah it really doesn't help when you get promoted but haven't had time to set yourself up for that move. I always panic buy in that situation, almost never works out!
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2 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:
@Incubus89 It's my base 4-2-3-1, I revamped my FM20 tactic but dumbed it down for the Dynamo
AF(A)
IF(S) AP(A) W(S)
CM(D) CM(S)
FB(A) CD(D) CD(D) FB(S)
GK(D)
Positive vs the AI Positive & above
Balanced vs the AI Balanced & below
Narrow
Shorter passing
Counter
More Urgent
It's not P&P though, which is why I was trying a 4-2-3-1 DLF(A) because not all teams have a suitable AF. The AF(A) needs to be fast & tall, good finishing. Wide attackers fast & athletic, AP(A) fast, skillful, creative. The CM's solid, can pass defend, height & speed etc. Back-line fast, tall etc etc
I knocked down the pressing because It smokes the players, higher tempo was too much for the players & playing out from the back isn't the best of ideas & as above, hoofing it up-field, isn't always a bad thing
It's working alright, basically have a L2 squad at best in the Championship, 21st & above is the aim & try & up the Club rep to get in better players. Any 4 star player the scouts pick up are of a decent L2 standard
@Johnny Ace it looks really good mate, not too dissimilar to the one I play at Sociedad. Found that as I've got up the league I can turn the FB(S) into a WB(S) and it's actually made me more defensively solid (genuinely would love to know how this has happened as the defensive personnel haven't changed). Found the same thing with the pressing, they just get shattered, with the formation being top heavy I guess it doesn't need to be as intense as they're pretty much in the opposition defense's face and not letting the ball get through.
Sucks about the scouting though, had that last year with my Gainsborough save. Took such a long time to be able to get anything decent coming along.
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@Johnny Acewhat tactic are you using with Melbourne?
Also, with the help of this thread managed to replace Isak at Sociedad with the misfit that is Mariano and he just banged in 39 goals in a season.
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15 minutes ago, halfspace3000 said:
whats your formation looking like?
So currently the TIs are: Positive, play out of defence, focus down the left and right, counter, counter press, offside trap, high LOE, high DL, more urgent pressing. Play around with these depending on the opposition. Sometimes I'll play wider and pass into space and it looks like this:
AF(A)
W(A) TQ(A) IF(S)
CM(S) BWM(D)
WB(S) CB(D) BPD(D) FB(A)
SK(S)
The team has had to be gutted and rebuilt as the board sold off everyone who had a good season!
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This thread has come up with the goods once again. Playing as Real San Sebastien. Playing with a trequartista behind a AF, W-A and an IF-S and we won the league (thanks in part to Barca and Real having bad seasons). Isak with 29 goals, Januzaj with 6 goals and 17 assists, David Silva with 17 goals and 16 assists and Oyarzabal with 23 goals and 11 assists. Cannot believe how well it worked!
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On 27/09/2021 at 23:41, dactz said:
When I looked at the average position with the ball my players position stays roughly the same give your take a couple of yards forward or back. This is with the exception of my LW who for some reason has moved quite significantly infield in the game we underperformed in.
@bosque I assume so, OP was looking for explanation as to why he moves so far in with the ball and his left winger is right footed with cuts in from the left and I can't think of anything else to explain it really.
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It was very similar to what I used in FM20 so it should hopefully continue
The FM 2021 AMC thread
in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion
Posted · Edited by Incubus89
Honestly I always really struggle in Italy. As much as I've come to love the 4231 after the advice in this thread, the most success I had there was with a 424. Give the 3 at the back all kinds of problems.
Sticking to the 4231 though, I did Milan save after seeing @Johnny Ace's talk about it and the TQ and DLF(a) worked pretty well for me. Looked for the overlap on the flank with an IF and focus on the flanks to try and encourage more doubling up on the wing backs.