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Everything posted by Pilcs

  1. Hey O-zil, big fan of your work. Just to give my thoughts regarding your points: 1. Agree completely with this. I'm actually still using @fmFutbolManager's mentality calculator from FM18 when creating my tactics on FM20. It might not be 100% accurate but I still find it very useful. 2. As for the auto-assignment of Team Shape, part of me actually agrees with this. Granted my understanding of the ME isn't that great but to put it simply: - Structured: Defenders defend, attackers attack (midfielders midfield ). So in my mind it makes sense that if you put a back line of defenders on defend and attackers on attack the Team Shape will be auto-assigned to Structured. - Fluid: Defenders can attack, attackers can defend, the team does both together. With the majority of the team having support roles not one person/s is responsible for attacking or defending therefore the whole team must do it together. Unfortunately, as you have noted, your new found joy over disciplined tactics, using duties rather than shape to create compactness is definitely a banana skin when it comes to FM20. Especially considering that using the Very Attacking (Overload) mentality seems to move the Team Shape away from Structured. What might be a Structured Team Shape when using Balanced could be a Flexible Team Shape when using Very Attacking. To get the disciplined tactics that you are after it would definitely seem like you would have to use shape rather than duties, in order to create that compactness. That being said I (like most of the other people on this site it seems) would love to see you push the boat out and pick up FM20. I would be particularly interested in seeing how you used the new training, mentoring groups and obviously the tactics creator. P.S. My O-zil inspired flat 4-3-3 is going particularly well in my FM20 Mallorca save and has just moved from the Flexible stage to the Very Fluid stage .
  2. Interesting at 1:13. "Gomez on Busquets, Ribery and Robben follow the fullbacks. Schweinsteiger follows Xavi and Muller again steps out with covershadow". This is roughly what I was going for by using a pressing forward, setting the wide players to man mark their opposite fullback and by using tighter marking for the AMC and 2 DMs. You could argue I should be using tighter marking along with pressing for the central players but I think that's something i'll experiment with to see how well it works currently.
  3. I don't suppose you know when that was said in the video? I must have missed that.
  4. Cheers. I'll be recreating this with a completely different team. I'll be adapting the tactics to the squad at my disposal, all will be revealed in the third post. I'll be honest, the Champions League instructions were mainly based from the two Barcelona games I remember watching back then. I'd almost have to agree with you in a way with the fact they never played "deep" as such however I seem to remember it was more they sat "deeper" and then pressed after certain triggers. Also I think in terms of replicating this in FM in order to be able to counter-attack effectively opposition teams will need to push forward, so the deeper line encourages that therefore leaving space in behind. Appreciate the comments though, maybe i'll experiment with leaving the defensive line and line of engagement as standard in the future. You're absolutely right... Maybe I'll end up removing that but in my head if say my Anchor Man decided to take things into his own hands and burst forward into the box, that'd leave me massively exposed at the back. If however though it blunts my attack more than helps keep my players in check I'll definitely be removing it. Cheers!
  5. Bayern Munich's Treble Winning Team Roles GK Sweeper Keeper Attack | Manuel Neuer None No explanation needed. The role made famous by the German keeper. DR Wing-Back Support | Philipp Lahm Close Down More Wing-Back to take advantage of the space vacated by the inside forward ahead of him and whilst Lahm did get forward often I think the support duty balances well with Robben’s attack duty on the same flank. He is also encouraged to close down more to press heavily in the wide areas. DCR & DCL Central Defenders Stopper | Jerome Boateng & Dante None Stopper duties have been used to promote the central defenders pushing ahead of the defensive line and sticking close to the opposition attackers. I did think about Ball Playing Defenders but I think Central Defenders with traits such as Likes To Switch Ball To Other Flank (like Boateng and Dante have) then I think that suffices. DL Wing-Back Attack | David Alaba Close Down More I’ve gone with the Attack duty here as Alaba regularly bombed forward and even got amongst the goals during the season. Like Lahm he is also encouraged to close down more to press heavily in the wide areas. DMCR Anchor Man Defend | Javi Martinez Mark Tighter I think you could argue he was a Defensive Midfielder Defend however I think this role will offer that screening and occasional dropping in front of the defence that the DM wouldn’t offer, tough one though. DM strata has been used as it offers the screening in front of the defence that CMs just don’t offer. DMCL Segundo Volante Support | Bastian Schweinsteiger Mark Tighter To me I think this role perfectly sums up Schweinsteiger’s role within the team. He was like a Defensive Midfielder, Deep-lying Playmaker and Box-to-box Player all rolled into one. Mark Tighter has been used to cut off passing options when the flanks are being pressed. AMR Inside Forward Attack | Arjen Robben Stay Wider, Close Down More, Mark Specific Position D (L) How many times have we seen Arjen Robben hugging the touchline out wide, receive the ball, cut inside at pace and curl one top bins? To me this was an obvious choice. He is encouraged to close down more to press heavily in the wide areas as well as sticking closely to his opposite full back. AMC Attacking Midfielder Support | Toni Kroos Mark Tighter Wasn’t too sure with this role so I’ve gone with a pretty blank canvas. He will drop deep and support the DMs but won’t be a focal point like an advanced playmaker would be. He will also get into the box from time to time and crack a long shot in. Mark Tighter has been used to cut off passing options when the flanks are being pressed. AML Inside Forward Support | Franck Ribery Roam from Position, Close Down More, Mark Specific Position D (R) Could argue that his role is more of an inverted winger but as I went with the AM strata for the wingers (to promote pressing higher up) I’ve gone with Inside Forward on support and will work well with the overlapping DL. He is encouraged to close down more to press heavily in the wide areas as well as sticking closely to his opposite full back. He is also allowed to Roam from Position along with the STC as these two often end up in each others position and to create variety in our play. STC Pressing Forward Attack | Mario Mandzukic Roam from Position He will be a nuisance for the opposition defenders and constantly put pressure on them. Roam from Position has been added as mentioned in the AML role. Mark Tighter has been used to cut off the closest passing lane if the wide areas are being pressed. Subs: AMR Raumdeuter Attack | Thomas Muller Close Down More, Mark Specific Position D (L) Thomas Muller was a massive reason for the success of this team and to call him a rotation player wouldn’t do him justice. Preferably I would play him in this role however he could easily play in the STC position and if I did play him in the AMC position I would play him as a Shadow Striker or Attacking Midfielder Attack. STC Poacher Attack | Mario Gomez Mark Tighter This man would come off the bench to do one thing, score. Apart from that, other players such as Shaqiri, Luiz Gustavo, Van Buyten and Claudio Pizaro in my opinion would come in and play pretty much the same roles as the player they replaced. Bundesliga Possession Team Instructions Play Out Of Defence and Work Ball Into Box have been used to promote possession of the ball. Pass Into Space has been used as if we win the ball high up the pitch we want to punish the opposition by quickly taking advantage of the space left behind by advancing players. Counter-Press has been used along with the individual player instructions to try and replicate the pressing Jupp used. Much Higher Defensive Line, Much Higher Line Of Engagement and Prevent Short GK Distribution have all been used to try and win the ball back as high up as possible in dangerous areas. Champions League Counter-Attacking Team Instructions Work Ball Into Box has been used to encourage the chances we do make on the break to be as clear cut as possible. Pass Into Space has been used as when we win the ball back we want to punish the opposition by quickly taking advantage of the space left behind by advancing players. Counter-Press has been used along with the individual player instructions to try and replicate the pressing Jupp used. Counter has been used to promote countering at every opportunity. Be More Disciplined has been used so that the team keep their shape and stick to their jobs. We want this deep defensive unit to be hard to beat with no gaps. Lower Defensive Line, Lower Line of Engagement have been used to keep the team deep, compact and hard to break down.
  6. Quick disclaimer, I am still learning here. Even though I've been playing FM for a few years now I am by no means an expert so any advice is more than welcome! Also I am not saying this is exactly how the treble winning team played, I am simply putting together my version. Before reading this post I highly recommend watching this great Tifo Football video on Bayern Munich & Jupp Heynckes’ Treble winning season. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLjkWniuBII That season he built a team that dominated the Bundesliga breaking numerous records including the most points during a season (91), fewest goals against (18), highest goal difference (+81) and many more by playing an attractive possession based style of football. During the Champions League the team showed their tactical flexibility as they produced devastating counter-attacking performances such as the famous 7-0 (agg.) demolition of Barcelona in both legs of the Semi-Final. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012–13_FC_Bayern_Munich_season Introduction One mistake I've made throughout my time playing FM is not appreciating everything that goes into recreating teams of old. Simply creating the tactic isn’t enough. Playing someone as an Inside Forward isn’t going to make them Arjen Robben. Playing a high line with a high press isn’t going to be successful with Per Mertesacker and Daley Blind at the back. A counter-press isn’t going to work if players don’t have high work rate and stamina. Likewise how are players expected to play in this way if the training schedules don’t regularly include sessions which improve these attributes and work on these things. Therefore recreating this will be a process; getting the right players in to suit the system, training the players to play in this way and creating a realistic version of the tactic that the current players can actually play. As a result throughout this topic I will be covering the following: Post 2 will cover my interpretation of the roles and player instructions used in Bayern’s treble winning team, the team instructions used for the possession football in the Bundesliga and the team instructions used for the counter-attacking football in the Champions League. Post 3 will cover the club choice for recreating Jupp’s treble winning team. I’ll go over a realistic (with the players available) version of both the possession and counter-attacking tactics as well as the relevant training schedules. Post 4 will include season updates.
  7. Thanks man. It's something I was a bit unsure on myself. Agree with you in that I don't think I've seen a "radical" press at all from England. One of the reasons I've kept the defensive line / line of engagement default is because as you say they usual fall back and press from there. I think at times you see notions of a counter press but it never seems to be a particularly well structured (or successful for that matter) press. I imagine this is mostly down to the fact that international managers just do not get the time with players to really drill home every tactical aspect coupled with the many different systems players are used to in club football.
  8. Could well be the answer. For the time being I'll keep things as they are but if I concede chances from this scenario again I'll look at removing the counter-press TI and adding individual player pressing settings - if this is what you mean?
  9. Smashing thread. I particularly like the 'first 15 minutes' analysis, been using that a lot and it really is spot on. Cheers @Cleon.
  10. Cheers. That's the plan. I've been given a bit of cash by the board so I'll look to bring in 2 or 3 young English players for the season. Will do. There were definitely games this season where the system struggled so I'll make sure to analyse them next season. I'm sure I'll have more games like that in the prem... I'll be honest, I think you're right. It's a difficult one as when my team lose the ball higher up the pitch I want them to counter-press, however when my team is defending a bit deeper I don't want my anchor man venturing too far from his position. The times I conceded chances from this was when my line was slightly deeper and all 3 were focused on 1 player leaving all kinds of space in front of my defence. I wasn't really sure what to do with this as I don't want to lose the counter-press so I settled with setting the anchor man to close down less. I think scenarios like this though are where there are slight limitations in FM i.e. I can't set it to only counter-press when I lose the ball in the opposition half.
  11. Nope. I've thought about using them to try and force players into certain areas of the pitch but I'll leave that for another time / different system. Also I'm not sure how the OI's would effect my Anchor Man closing down less.
  12. During the World Cup Gareth Southgate's England side set up in a 3-5-2, making use of their ball-playing defenders and relying heavily on set pieces, defying all odds and managing to reach the semi-finals. However, what's impressed me most during Southgate's reign as England boss has been what he has done after the World Cup. Introduction Since the World Cup, Southgate has favoured a 4-3-3 formation with the following concepts that stick out to me: Positive football, keeping the ball and controlling the game Playing out from the back Counter-pressing in a mid-block Patient build-up play at the back, springing into life when in the final third Fast, direct and exciting wide players Harry Kane dropping deep to create space and play in teammates Kyle Walker's 'Man City' role Trust in young English talent Tactic Not far from what I started with however after a season of small tweaks this is the tactic that I've settled on: As you might have guessed I've gone with a Positive mentality (I did actually begin the season on balanced...) We are playing out from back with Play Out Of Defence and Distribute To Centre-Backs I am counter-pressing in a mid-block with the use of Counter-Press and no alteration to the defensive line or line of engagement Both the wide players have been given an attack duty to encourage them to be more direct after the patient build-up play from the back Counter and Pass Into Space have been used to encourage the 'springing into life when in the final third'... that's the idea anyway Focus Play Through The Middle was something I added towards the second half of the season to make use of our numbers in there and the space created by the strikers movement To control the game I have used Shorter Passing and Work Ball Into Box to reduce long potentially risky passes and to encourage the players to remain patient for their chances Due to our slow build-up play it can often be the case that the two midfielders will take a number of long shots, you could try putting shoot less often on however both of my midfielders (especially the mezalla) scored a fair few from distance If you have the personnel to do so, you could also use player instructions to ask the two wide players to swap positions. Sancho and Sterling swapped sides a few times during the recent friendlies which could cause problems if the opposition team is man marking One thing I haven't really gone into is set pieces. These have been massive for Gareth Southgate's team. I found it hard to replicate the 'train' that's used in real life, in the end I settled with aiming corners into the 6 yard box... Player Roles and Instructions Goalkeeper Defend | Jordan Pickford None I've gone for a classic Goalkeeper in this role, I could have gone for a sweeper keeper on defend duty however with the fact we're not playing with a higher line I didn't feel it was necessary. Full-Back Support | Kyle Walker Hold Position When watching Kyle Walker play for England I feel his role is similar if not the same to the one he plays at club level for City, highlighted even further when Raheem Sterling is playing ahead of him. Rather than constantly bomb forward he tends to sit in line with the defensive midfielder offering a constant option when playing out of defence and being on hand to use his electrifying pace to snuff out counter opportunities when England lose the ball. You could argue that his role is more of an inverted wing-back however I personally feel he holds his position in a more natural full-back position rather than constantly cutting inside acting as a midfielder, could be wrong though. Central Defenders Defend | John Stones & Harry Maguire None I've gone for a bog standard defender here. Again you could definitely argue that both of these guys are ball playing defenders however when reading the role description the part about 'launch defence splitting through balls from deep' doesn't really appeal to me. With the team instructions used along with player traits such as Brings Ball Out of Defence these guys will still build up from the back but without the long through balls from deep associated with the ball playing defender role. Wing-Back Support | Ben Chilwell None With the inside forward ahead of him vacating the space on the left I decided to go for a wing-back here. The support duty has been used to again encourage the patient build up play from the back and to not leave us too exposed on the counter. Anchor Man Defend | Eric Dier Close Down Less For me this was one of the easiest decisions to make when choosing the roles. If you read the role description for the anchor man I think you'd find it hard to disagree that this is the job both Eric Dier and Declan Rice have done for England. They sit in between the defence and midfield, intercepting moves, winning the ball and laying off simple passes to the rest of the team. Close down less was added after I kept seeing all 3 of my midfielders pressing the same player, leaving all kinds of space in behind. Central Midfielder Support | Jordan Henderson Stay Wider In the initial version of this tactic I used a deep lying playmaker for this role. With a playmaker in the side the team will naturally look to pass to him as often as possible in order to let him dictate play. However I don't really believe that play goes through one particular player in the current England setup. Another reason for the change was due to the fact that I already had the right full-back holding his position so it didn't feel right having a midfielder in front of him doing the same, prompting me to switch it to a central midfielder on support who will 'balance his attacking and defensive responsibilities'. Stay wider was added as even though I want to focus the play through the middle I still want to make use of the spaces on the pitch, again one of those ones where I've added it after seeing my midfielders step on each others toes a bit at times. Mezzala Support | Dele Alli Take More Risks When watching England, the combination play on the left side between the midfielder, inside forward and wing-back is clear to see. Dele Alli will often drift out wide when the inside forward comes inside to combine with the wing-back. I've gone with the support duty to again encourage the slow build-up play until the ball reaches the wide players. The mezzala role along with take more risks however will still get forward, make things happen and support when necessary as well as get into the box for some chances. Winger Attack | Jadon Sancho None One of two attack duties in the whole team. I want him to make runs in behind and when he receives the ball I want him to be direct and attack the opposition defenders. He will stretch the play on the right hand side and provide crosses for the striker and opposite inside forward. Inside Forward Attack | Raheem Sterling None The other attack duty mentioned. When he gets the ball I want him to be direct, this time driving inside to create space for the overlapping wing-back and to potentially find the striker or the winger in space. Deep Lying Forward Support | Harry Kane None As mentioned previously, I want my striker to drop deep in order to create space for the two attacking wide players. Sometimes this guy plays like a deep lying playmaker in that he will drop deep and find the two attacking wide players making runs in behind much like we saw Harry Kane do in the recent friendlies. Season To develop this tactic I decided to start a Bristol City save. A mid table championship team with a strong English core and some talented youngsters on loan. Please note that I mainly played a mirrored version of the tactic due to the personnel available. I had a physical left-back and a typical left winger so it made sense to mirror it, making use of the teams strengths. For a team predicted to finish 13th, finishing 2nd has proved to be a brilliant season. Aston Villa have absolutely romped the league and proved way too strong to compete with. However we were the best of the rest by some distance. In terms of team stats we had the best average possession in the league finishing on 57%, scoring 80 goals (3rd) and conceding 43 (5th), not bad. I rotate quite heavily when playing mid-week games in order to keep the players fresh, especially with the counter-press. Eliasson played the left winger role pretty much all season with Lloyd Kelly playing behind him, a 6'3" physical player who can play both left-back and centre-back. My other option was Jay Dasilva who is a quality full-back but at 5'4" and not being physical at all, he's not really in the Kyle Walker mould. It meant when I played Dasilva I made sure I played the system where the left-back was the wing-back. I could play Tomas Kalas in the full-back position, another centre-back / full-back with good physical stats. Kasey Palmer had a strong season playing in the mezalla role, scoring plenty of long shots and direct free-kicks. You'll see from the stats I had a hard time getting the best out of my striker, starting the season with Matty Taylor, he didn't really set the world alight as you can see. This caused me to turn to a young prospect who if I'm honest didn't really have the passing to play the role as I wanted, but did a job nonetheless. One thing the stats don't really show in regards to the striker is the space that he creates which I'll go onto later. A special mention has to go to Andreas Weimann who played the right inside-forward role excellently, the amount of times Eliasson assisted him was exactly what I wanted. Transfers Not a huge amount of activity regarding transfers although I did make a one bit of smart business during the January window. Jack Hunt (28) who was having an average season as our starting right wing-back was sold for £3m. To replace him, Jayden Bogle (18). 10 years his junior, he was brought in for same price at £3m. Not afraid to give youngsters a chance, I've effectively swapped my ageing right back for a better, younger model. Happy days. Analysis Just a few screenshots of a couple of scenarios that I was pleased with. Counter: A long ball has been played to the back post by the opponent, Kelly has won the header due to his positioning and physicality (Dasilva would have undoubtedly lost this header). Kelly's header falls to Eliasson who has space to turn and run at the defence. With his attack duty and the counter team instruction he won't be wasting any time. Fast forward and Eliasson has travelled with the ball some distance, attracting the attention of 4 opposition players in the process. With his winger duty he has swung a cross into Weimann, who scores tap in. Striker Movement: Eliasson has received the ball on the left hand side. Eliasson has dribbled forwards into the space and Matty Taylor has made a run towards the ball, creating a gap between the left centre-back and left-back. With the space created, Eliasson has now played a through ball into Weimann's path who slots home. Our striker's stats perhaps weren't the best but the space that he creates isn't reflected in those stats. Conclusion This save has been a lot of fun. It's been particularly rewarding attempted to translate the football I've seen from games in real life into FM. Southgate has done wonders for England and with the young prospects coming through, we have exciting times ahead I'm sure. This is my first tactical post, so any feedback regarding the writing style or the tactical decisions would be greatly appreciated.
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