[Football Manager 2024 Official Feedback Thread]

Since it came in a few editions ago, the centre back dribbling possibilities and "brings ball out of defence" trait have clearly been absurdly overpowered. The player will just get it and rampage forward in a straight line, whilst you get the sense that there is some sort of exclusion zone forcefield in place around them that prevents the opposition engaging them and the path remains clear for them to keep going.

When these sorts of possibilities came into the game, I envisioned/hoped it would just be doing away with what FM'ers called the "invisible wall" for centre backs which stopped them doing anything once they hit a certain point on the pitch - and so just more aggressive positioning in possession (eg. pushing way up the field beyond the halfway line) or when carrying the ball just shuffling forward 10-15 yards situationally if space was available. That's more like real life happenings. Instead it's been over done in my opinion and you can link it back to the general problem with over aggressive wide play/dribbling/directness. The new era with FM25 needs to fundamentally rewrite how why and when players travel with the ball and not some arcade-y all or nothing roadrunner type stuff where every player with a role that encompasses dribbling tries to and can be Adama Traore.

[Football Manager 2024 Official Feedback Thread]

Obviously on some of these issues things need improving, and I've had my say on the topics over the years, but at the end of the day you do have to remember it is a game and SI simply have to make it entertaining and attractive (i.e. promote and build around "attacking football") in order for it to be commercially viable.

I would say though there are some things to consider:

Now look I am an anomaly, I watch full matches, even for my youth teams, but 99.9% of users - whether that's casual players, through to the expert tactics guys - play matches on reduced highlights. Tactics/AI therefore simply have to be more forgiving. Plus lets be honest, the vast, vast, vast majority of a football match is boring, nothing really happening and the key/decisive/exciting moments a sporadic and tiny percentage of the whole game. If real life was enacted this would mean a handful of key highlights at most, and user complaints. So to give them plenty of highlights and bits of the match to watch, it has to be geared towards the unrealistic(ally attacking) to give the user his moneys worth and to feel involved.

Mentality is a fundamental problem in tactics in my opinion. It is not well used by the system/AI, it is even less well used by the average user. In real life if you watch a standard match across any league and you'll see the same thing. The top sides, being the attacking/possession team, would play in an FM equivalent of balanced, at the highest, and probably more akin to something like cautious (with certain select players then given more freedom, eg. passing or forward runs). If you want realistic football and outcomes/stats then you need to be prepared for the big chunks of games where possession is just recycled, teams go nowhere, and nothing happens. That isn't done by clicking Positive, which is what most AI or human systems just default to in FM. Needs a complete revamp, and better user understanding.

I also saw it summed up once, whether that's accurate or inaccurate, fair or unfair, that for the all the adding on to it with certain roles or things like positional play, FM was built with 80/90's English football influence and does reflect that. Which brings me to my last talking point, and favourite topic over the years - wideplay and behaviour. This is the biggest cause of the problems and why attacking is considered overpowered and unrealistic. Basically all wide behaviour, roles, duties are too direct and completely OTT compared to modern 2020's football - before you even get to any instructions added by the user. If you wanted to pick one aspect in the game to take a wrecking ball to, it would be this.

[Frustrated by inability to comprehend MLS Salary Cap]

As everyone will tell you, there are a myriad of problems when it comes to MLS saves and how the AI interprets and implements the various salary rules (plus the AI squad building effects these rules then impact). To be fair I'd say in general this has got better (for long term users who might disagree with that, remember for example there were some editions years back where the financial/salary rules interpretations made signing anyone for a transfer fee totally impossible), but the foibles are plenty noticeable and often very frustrating. As for the rules, they are complex and take time to understand but you do start to get the hang of them eventually.

However I still think depending on the type of user you are, it can be a good league to play. Particularly from an educational perspective and seeing what you can do on FM, especially with lesser/smaller teams and players and less money to throw around.

Straightaway you should forget about signing wonderkids etc. Also I'd say signing players from Europe or star Designated Players has always been much harder to do than IRL (though not impossible). This is a "development league" where you should be mostly getting by with domestic players, newgens out of academies, or mining the America's (load the league/players from these continents, for much better game playability) for cheaper unheralded talent and this includes for Designated Players. Sign, develop, sell. I do think the MLS is a good league to actually learn the game of FM because you'll be using "bog-standard" players mainly - whether that be training and player/youth development, realistic squad building and no hording umpteen players, tactics, scouting and transfers, etc. All depends on how you play the game though really.

[Come on seriously. Half the squad spitting their dummies out]

I don't see much wrong with that example really. You're at a big club, with ambitious players hoping (and maybe even wanting and expecting) to win trophies, you've not done that plus been eliminated by a team (Liverpool) who would be expected to be one of your main competitors when it comes to winning..... It could be worded much much better, but that is basically the players having a wobble and doubting whether you're the guy who can get the job done and the trophies won.

@herne79's example is a much better example of an underlying issue that needs looking at, along with the much publicised examples where users are getting hammered for eg. lack of options in defence when they have 6+ centre backs already on the books, the OP scenario in my opinion just needs SI to polish the interaction.

[FM24]

To be fair to SI that is maybe the most comprehensive feature announcement in many a year.

The tactical stuff is exactly the sort of thing long overdue, here's hoping it works as advertised. Would say though, as a couple of others have mentioned, quite disappointed if this doesn't (yet again) include a fundamental reworking of goalkeepers and the possibilities for them to join in with possession. I know this requires getting it right and so it doesn't lead to frequent Match Engine howlers, but changes to how the GK works has been needed for about a decade plus now (it's been that long since you saw eg. Valdes and Neuer in the mainstream acting virtually as outfield players) and is one of the biggest oversights of the game tbh.

The motion capture/physics/mechanics look massively improved. Not perfect of course, but on first look that's like a generational leap overnight and at last something resembling actual people playing actual football. Might even tempt me to give a chance to something other than 2d mode.... 

[FM24]

Sounds promising on the whole, and continued work on the AI aspect is what everyone asks for, so far so good.

But then you get things like this, which I'll hold my breath on:

Quote

That improved logic also applies to outgoing transfers, with AI clubs now making much more considered and contextual decisions concerning loans for young players. If it was felt that a player was lacking in terms of physicality, the club would try to facilitate a move to a more physical team to improve the aspect of the player’s development.

 

Yeah since the dawn of time one of the main reasons for loans is to give youth players the experience of adult football and toughening them up a bit, and I'm sure you can pick out individual examples where a loan for this purpose happened... but just seems very unrealistic to me for eg. a top team to have some precocious wonderkid playmaker, and basically conclude he's a great footballer but a bit weak, better send him to Tony Pulis!. I'd worry about the AI decision making here - both the teams sending, and team receiving on loan - and don't really want to see playmakers being sent to hoofball teams, or meathead centrebacks to tiki taka sides, en masse because of what the system interprets as their weak spots.

 

On a related note I would hope for AI improvements when it comes to newgen development and the type of players that come through. This is still way too undercooked in my opinion, where clubs with renowned playing styles aren't well replicated. Every edition still you'll see things like Barcelona newgens coming through with rock bottom attributes for touch, passing, technique, composure, etc. I think newgen "templating" could be better to produce players (and groups of them) that no matter what their CA/PA/potential is they reflect being brought through a specific play style be that tiki taka, gegenpress or whatever. At the moment the newgen individuals "make up" and attribute distribution is still for me far too chaotically random.

[How would you create Ange Postecoglou's Tottenham tactic in FM 23]

It's definitely a 4-3-3.

Sarr plays as a box to box midfielder. Bissouma is the pivot but has a lot of freedom as the ball progresses up the pitch to go where he wants and join in with play, in FM a DM(s) is probably where I'd start from. Maddison as an AP, he has freedom working in the left channel to roam deeper/wider/higher.

Fullbacks a little trickier to get right I'd say. Right back is definitely inverted, defend duty for Emerson whilst Porro is maybe a support. On the left Udogie does invert but it's not as pronounced as on the other side. He also makes more forward runs and you should definitely be using underlaps as an instruction on the left. I'd be experimenting with the WB roles until I found role/duty/instruction that could replicate this best.

Up front I'd say Richarlison is a PF(s), Kulusevski is playing as a winger (not inverted, but as leftie on the right you'll get some natural variation), Son has been at times winger, inverted winger, and at the weekend was more inside forward.

Centre backs nothing too outlandish, Keeper is SwK(d) I'd say.

Positive Mentality, Play out of defence, Shorter passing, Counter Press I'd say would be cornerstones of your instructions. Defensive line starts at default, and would be maxed out against a team that sits back.

Pressing shape would be more difficult, it's a 4-4-2 where Maddison joins the striker as the "2", but as has been frequently discussed this is hard to replicate on FM - different shapes in and out of possession.

Those would be my starting points though.

[How to make players play backwards and recycle possesion]

No offence to the OP, but that seems a set up that will naturally produce a direct approach whatever the instruction.

Positive is a high mentality that will look to take risks and "play forward" even with the modifications via TI's.

All the individual player roles will be looking to go forward. Sweeper Keeper on attack & BPD's with that mentality will likely launch it forward. You then have two midfield runners, two wide players who on auto with that mentality will be running and playing forward, the playmaker in the No.10 role so the "ball magnet" is further forward, plus two striker runners looking for the ball knocked into space.

Plus I note the TI of run with the ball, which will especially effect the wide players I'd have thought.

The instructions can only do so much, the mentality/roles/duties, to me, make direct play fairly inevitable.

[I think Football Manager's formation system needs to change to keep up with modern football.]

There definitely needs to be more option available. The implementation in recent years of the different sub-screens for your attacking/defensive/transition instructions is a step in the right direction but it should go further. I'm not saying you should be able to instruct each player where to stand exactly at every moment of the match, but to reflect football you should be able to split the tactical instructions further for different phases, both with and without the ball.

- The "John Stones role" is a brand new trend and would be unfair to criticise FM for not having in the game... But the fullback inverting to DM, whilst the rest of the defence shuffles across to make a three, has been around years now and still no mechanism to do it naturally without the user trying their best to shoehorn it via instruction.

- Sometimes players have different instructions depending on where the ball is on the field. Let's take a fullback again for instance, some teams will have them "invert" or narrow to help with the initial build up, and then when they have reached advanced positions will expect them to be back up the flank overlapping. You can't do this in FM.

- Again on a related note, the relationships between players and maintaining a positional structure. Eg. between a wideman and his fullback/central midfielder team mate.... If A is holding the width, B will position in the channels/halfspace. If B is wide, A will play inside. In FM players don't dovetail, they'll just stand next to each other...

- The defensive formation might not be the same as the attacking formation. Loads of teams you'd say are eg. a 4-3-3 with the ball, but when they defend it will be a 4-4-2 shape. Now on the forums you'll get told well yes so just set your formation as 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 and get the attacking movement from that, but again that's doing some really shonky workarounds via what instructions you have to use.

- And there are some tactical examples where that advice just doesn't work very well, and the ability to have split tactics is needed. Conte's "3-4-3" system, where they defend in a 5-4-1 shape but then with the ball the wide players become dual 10's floating about in the pocket has never been well replicated in FM, no matter what any user tries to claim in the Tactical Recreations threads. Simeone's approach is another, FM'ers have always been puzzled how to play 4-4-2 with his certain instructions, such as the wide players and getting the forwards back in to defend really deep.

- And again without the ball, teams will be in a different shape depending on where the ball is on the field. The "formation" (plus things like width, spacing, etc) they press in might be different to the shape they drop in to to consolidate. Yeah some might argue this can be achieved somewhat by role or instruction, but I'd say it's still in way too limited fashion.

 

Those are just some examples, you could add many more. Some may be sorted about by Role tweaks, or the additional instruction, but I think really it needs an evolution of the tactical possibilities available. I doubt we'll see it happen though, certainly in the near future. The AI needs to be able to compete and keep up with this, and it's clearly not in the position to. And in any case I think SI (and many users tbh) are scarred for life by "WIBWOB" and the previous dalliances at stuff like this in the old game.

[How much Attention do you pay to your youth teams/The youth system?]

Always do it myself - above everything it's something I enjoy doing and I'm a slow and immersive player on all my saves, but also I don't trust the AI to either a) maximise development or b) do it in a way to suit how I want the football to be played. I will manage the training/development at a minimum for all teams and very often manage my B/reserve/youth teams or feeder affiliates myself.

Actually been revisiting an old Bilbao (a team where obv you're forced to take an interest in development)  save on FM15 currently where I'm managing the first team in the top division, the B team in the second tier, the C team in the third tier, plus the U19 team as well. From 15-21 I'm effectively with every player at every step along the conveyor belt.

[More dodgy data hub stats. Or if true, what is going on???]

Worst in the league, or best in the league?

This tactic you mention is high press. I've just noted your other thread on the stats subject where you have a heavily possession-based approach so going to assume the same in this instance..... Why are you wanting more blocks and clearances!??? We need more context here but if results are good, and your goals against tally is reasonable, then surely you're doing alright and you're not doing blocks/clearances because your tactical aims of pressing and possession are...... working.

Sorry, but can't see how you're coming to this interpretation.

The only problems I see here are, as per usual, questionable advice from the AI through your Assistant (it doesn't say outright this is a problem, but telling you it should be looked into suggests it's a negative issue and maybe has led OP down the path), and also whether it should be possible for human-controlled teams to be such statistical outliers against a small cluster (caused because AI teams don't really play a hugely variant style), but then that's always been the case on FM.

[*Official* Football Manager 2023 Feedback Thread]

On 23/11/2022 at 10:00, DAZZ67 said:

Hi everyone,

I subscribe to most things that have been said about the ME, and am currently waiting for it to be fixed before engaging in a new save. It's really the worst ME we have seen in years imo. Also, most of the new features introduced in this year's edition, I find them purely aesthetics rather than impactful.

But I think that what makes this game less and less realistic is transfers, and I'll explain why.

1. Real club patterns are not replicated in the game. Most clubs have profiled the type of players they want in general or for specific positions. Yet in the game, you'll find the big guns battling it out for the same players, while irl they would not. You'll see PSG piling up left backs while they have Nuno Mendes, you'll see Arsenal recruiting over 30 year old players, you'll see average players from Spezia being wanted by Tottenham and MU, etc.

2. Transfer values are unrealistic. Players from second or third tier markets should be worth far less, even wonderkids. Players from Scandinavia, second tier South America, Central Europe, etc, they cannot cost anywhere above 10M€, yet you see it very often in the game. And I won't even engage in our own players' selling prices, which are a joke.

3. 90% of scouts in the game have below-par attributes. Very often you will need to revamp your scouting department because no-one has more than 10 or 12 in player profiling. For instance, Brighton is a club now revered for its scouting system, yet in the game the scouts have dreadful grades. Also Brighton is known for its advanced use of data, while in the game, their scouts have an average of 7 in data analysis...

I should point out that it's a valid point for other positions too. There must be 5 or 6 people with correct grades for loan management, 90% of directors of football have below 12 in negotiation, 90% of head of youth academies have terrible, terrible grades - look at the ones at Club Brugge, Porto, Salzburg,... all Youth League winners irl.

4. The game should give us the possibility to define the profile we want for each position and where we want to scout as 2 different things. As of now, it doesn't really work that way. Most of the times, your scouts will suggest profiles that don't fit your tactics at all, while you have asked them to, and very often out of the scouting zones you have asked. It's not realistic when you take charge of recruitment, and even worse when you delegate.

5. The notion of cycles is somehow absent as regard transfers in the game. After 3, 4, 5 or 6 years, a player or a staff member might want to test himself somewhere else. You see it sometimes, but too rarely, and not realistically imo. For instance in the game, never ever would have Michael Edwards left Liverpool, let alone for a new cycle and in a less popular club. 

6. Your scouts give too many bad suggestions, it's almost boring at times. Whatever the saves, whatever the staff members, you get the same suggestions. I begin to wonder if staff grades have any impact at all.

 

That alone could lead me to stop playing the game I've been playing for the last 20 years.

Yeah, very good post.

As said, the problem here is two-fold - both in the data, and then how the game AI joins it all together.

On the data, as you say for a lot of clubs, ones with specific transfer policies or have a reputation for good youth or scouting, the game doesn't really reflect it in the staff attributes. Also for a game that made it's mark largely on the back of it's comprehensive player database there are actually massive gaps in many areas. Anyone who fiddles about with the Editor knows that a lot of things - eg. transfer preferences - are for the large part left completely blank/basic/neglected and attention to detail in this area would substantially alter the FM world and AI behaviour. Now I know I know, getting hold of all this data, accurately, and making it work stably in the game takes a lot of time and effort on behalf of SI and researchers. But when you see what one or two committed passionate FM'ers can do with the "realism" editor files by taking it upon themselves to fill quite a large number of gaps, I don't think it's unfair to say that the developers could show quite a lot more focus on this.

But then the second part is, that the AI still needs to be able to take this and use it properly. As you mention, particularly in scouting and transfers it just doesn't seem to work very well. SI have introduced in recent years expansion to things like manager tendencies/traits, and club philosophies, but you still see them acting in total contrast to what their in game profiles suggest, and maybe more importantly as to how they go about things in real life.

[Red Bull and City Group model]

Yeah, I have attempted an epic Red Bull save a few times (but not for a few editions now).

Disclaimer: It took quite a bit of use of the pre-game editor to set up. The affiliations between all the various Red Bull clubs need(ed) correcting/strengthening. I would also go through each club and key staff (Chairman, DOF, HOYD, etc) and make sure all the club vision, person tactical attributes and tendencies, etc, were the same. The first Red Bull Brazil team had to be edited into the bottom playable division. Plus tidied up a few other bits and pieces.

The aim was to emulate the whole of the Red Bull philosophy. Trying to replicate that fast aggressive football Rangnick introduced, press to the max, 4-2-4, etc. Scouting and buying and developing athletic hardworking young players to fit this style of play. And also try and sell eventually and make massive profits and keep the conveyor belt going.

From that template you have options how you approach it. You can choose "DOF mode" and assign all the coaching stuff to assistants. You can choose just to be the coach and let the existing DOF handle the transfers and see what you get given to you. You can attempt to develop young coaching staff and indoctrinate them in the playing style (as Red Bull do irl). You can manage maybe just the European clubs, or all of them, what about the youth teams.....

Personally I jumped straight in at the deep end and took over them all and micro-managed everything  - Leipzig and it's youth team, Salzburg, Liefering, and the youth team, New York, and Brasil and it's youth team (and nowadays I might consider cheating and have Bragantino in A league and editing the original Brazil team into C league as your reserve/development team).

Tactically I developed a set of tactics in the style I wanted that each team used.

For transfers I tried to approach it true to life: The Americas were obviously mining for players from their domestic markets, plus the odd continental gem. Leipzig you obviously have a bit more free rein, domestic or European gems. Salzburg targeted a wider range of players from more obscure leagues and continents eg. Africa. In terms of age profile, predominantly youth signings. I'd try to limit the Americas to 19, maybe 21 in the US. Salzburg I tried to limit to 17 for European players, 19 for the wider world. Leipzig you do need more established players to compete, so allowed myself a max. age of 23 but trying to make that the exception rather than norm.

As for moving the players between clubs, I'd personally try to keep it true to life. Only get the player if there is a spot available for him, eg. selling someone else first. Don't just stockpile at the "top club" and neglect the others. Pay a fair price. If another club is offering more than you would be willing to, let him go there. As mentioned, developing and selling players should also be a big priority, so others can come through. I'd also try to stick to a method of aged 15/16 plays for youth team, at 17/18 if you have a reserve team eg. Liefering they're playing competitive games, then into the first team at 19 latest. 

An added challenge on top of all this is whether you play with attributes masked or not. With it you rely on your scouting networks and is probably the best way to play. In a save like this I preferred not to, because I found the deficiencies of scouting on FM meant they would never find the sorts of players with raw materials I would want. I wasn't after obvious wonderkids, I wanted those with my key DNA attributes, Natural fitness, Aggression, Work rate, etc. and often see some totally unheralded youth player with these attributes and think hmmm, wonder if I could do something with them?, which if left to my scouts I'd never be aware of.

Has to be said, it's a mammoth undertaking. I am a very slow player anyway, but this was extreme in the time it takes to progress. I remember the Americas teams in particular took ages to overhaul squads etc. But it was fun to refine the tactic and optimise it, whilst also having such choice and opportunity to scout and buy young talent from across the globe and see what could be developed. Unfortunately I've only ever got about a year or so into these saves. One time life simply got in the way, another the file got corrupted, but never been able to see this "challenge" play out. Maybe this year.....

[FM23 Headline Features Revealed]

Some small things I still hope for '23:

- "Brings ball out of defence" is toned down a bit and refined. In real life this is almost always situational and defenders will carry the ball/shuffle forward when space is ahead of them. In FM it seems like they just put their head down and "charge!" forwards with mazy runs, and sometimes you feel as if there is a barrier around them preventing the opposition engaging them.

- The bands and spacing between the lines. I know modern football squeezes the space available, high defensive lines, etc, but I thought on FM22 this was a bit extreme. You'd often get the game played in the middle of the pitch with like 20 metres max. from one defensive line to another with everyone squeezed in between. Consider this, and it made the issues with pressing centre backs and their pass completion even more odd.

- A decade long held view.... complete rework of wideplay. Just because they play on the flanks doesn't mean they have to run with ball and cross often.

- Another long held view, adding some much needed depth to the goalkeeper and it not just being a semi-ghost object blocking up the goal. Fundamental reworking or scrapping of the existing roles, having some sort of collision detection and them being able to tackle or foul or whatever defensive work, and completely revolutionise their possibilities with the ball and them being able to contribute to possession and playing out from the back. 

[Problem with Pep/Barca style 433]

It remains that playing in this style on FM is extremely tough. We've all tried to recreate it a lot over the years. There is a lot there that I'd personally disagree with, especially when emulating the Pep-Barca side you mention. Obviously that team was now over a decade ago, but from what I'd recall I'd say:

- I don't think the mentality was that high. Others will disagree.

- Get rid of underlaps (This wasn't a specific of their play). Get rid of play narrow (I don't think they did). Get rid of focus through the middle (I'll come back to this).

- Definitely not two BPD, arguably zero. Puyol/Mascherano role was just to simply pass the ball to better players. Pique maybe but again he mostly used the ball simply and I think traits cover his licence to be a little more adventurous.

- Wingbacks. Abidal was largely much more conservative and some games sat and made a back three. FB (support) for me with situational instructions. Alves role very difficult to replicate. Probably needs an attack duty but on FM they're all to one-dimensionally run/cross spam.

- Others have always disagreed on this, but I personally play a flat midfield three. I can get depth/staggering in the midfield via roles/instructions. I have always found it drags the defensive line up even higher (which I'm ok with, especially replicating this), and playing a three means the outside midfielders are pushed wider into the half spaces naturally. Busquets was only Halfback in certain games/situations.

- Xavi and Iniesta.... Iniesta wasn't a playmaker for me, I also don't think he's a Mezzala, I've always played him as a CM (attack) but this is now far too aggressive a role in the last edition of FM. Xavi no way was a RP, maybe a DLP (but did get forward more than that role does), and personally I have always used a CM (support) with tonnes of freedom to dictate the play using his absolutely god-like technical and mental abilities.

- Pedro and Villa roles are, and have always been, impossible to recreate on FM. But both spent large parts of the game pinned to the touchline providing lots of width. Helped rotate the ball and picked their moments to dart in behind or attack the box. On a lot of FM editions I have found the WM role arguably provides the best variations/possibilities for their play, but that really is too deep for how they did play IRL.

- Messi. I am in the camp of AM strata with an attack duty.

 

Don't think you need to set up with loads of playmakers, if any, to get the desired play. The right roles and instructions and I have always found the play will go through the midfield quad with lots of passes and involvements.

Also think that Barca team did have a bias/tilt towards the right hand side. Messi-Xavi-Alves with Pedro and Pique supporting, the play and combo's were often on that side. Iniesta tried to hold wider and exploit the left half space, whilst Villa was used to switch the play or find on an out-to-in run in behind or attacking the box at the back post.

 

[*Official* Football Manager 2022 Feedback Thread]

I know modern football has trended towards being compact and not leaving space between the lines, but I can't be the only one thinking that on FM22 this is being represented over and above real life? All the players from both teams seem to squeeze/merge together very regularly into a narrow band maybe at max 20 metres wide. Makes the issues with pressing even more bizarre. 

[*Official* Football Manager 2022 Feedback Thread]

Very undecided about FM22 after the last couple of editions, plus work is pretty hectic till Xmas, so for now went with the demo..... My initial thoughts on what has changed after exploring it for a few hours:

 

Manager Avatar/Newgen Faces - As usual, for me deeply unimpressive. The tech, the choices and options available.... basic is not the word. And lets not get started on the eyebrows(!)

General UI/Skin - Nothing earth-shattering in terms of changes, but on the whole a more polished/cleaner/refined evolution on last year.

Various meetings - whilst we all know improvements could be made - are easy to navigate and to me the presentation/layout is an improvement on the previous.

Graphics/Animations - TBH I am not the target audience here, I am a 2D player and will be as long as it remains possible, but you can see the changes that have been made to the animations. Others will argue that the 3d stuff should be a lot better, but this is a step in the right direction.

 

Match Engine Thoughts:

- Only watched a couple of matches on full but as of yet haven't noticed any terrible bugs. The "running the ball over the touchline" non-stop has gone it seems, thankfully.

- Touchwood, those dreadfully unrealistic "backwards cross-field diagonals" have largely disappeared after blighting the last two editions. I've seen a few happen, but it now seems to be a rarity instead of the norm.

- The Pressing issue that has been much talked about... This is a problem, and from what I have seen seems to be down to the Transition aspect rather than Defensive aspect. When the ball gets turned over counter-pressing doesn't seem to happen, allowing teams to secure the ball, and that is where the problems mainly stem. I think after that the general defensive play looks fairly realistic, it is maybe a bit stand-offish and SI possibly need to look at the distances involved but they get into shape and wait to press at the right moment which is what happens in football. For me it is the counter pressing that on initial observation where issues lie.

- Early days but I think central play and general passages of play seem alright. Players will be patient and knock the ball around, still too much launching the ball to the flanks for my liking but it's been toned down a lot.

- Some aspects, mainly around wing play and running,  remain way too overpowered, for me unrealistic, and a bit arcadey. Wide players who just get ball and run and cross. Too many roles hardcoded to produce this type of behaviour. Brings ball out of defence trait being OTT. Wide centrebacks I haven't mucked around with too much yet but look like they have the potential to go down this track.... I know why SI go down this route, they need to produce an entertaining game with lots of attacking football, but personally I don't like wideplay and running/dribbling on steroids which is what plays out.

- Some aspects remain basically an afterthought. Set piece options are so limited and as I've said before I think they're worse than was in game 5+ years ago. Goalkeepers..... could be so much more. We've had at least a decade now in modern football where goalkeepers contribute more and more to outfield play and build up, will join in the play and position themselves accordingly, etc. None of this is reflected in the FM GK and roles. Change never happens.

 

Overall - Some bits going in the right direction, some bits urgently need a look at, some bits I wish SI would one year look at. Undecided if I I eventually buy...

 

[Playing with 2 coaches in one save]

Yes but not in a random "I'll manage someone from here, here, and here" type way. There will be some link between the clubs.

Generally I do it by default, as each club I'm at I will manage the Reserve & Youth teams as well to ensure I have full control on player development etc. Sometimes this means having to set up a second manager profile if the B team is considered a separate entity.

I also sometimes do it with affiliate clubs. One day I decided that if I was eg. a PL club loaning out half a dozen hot prospects to a League One team for experience, I may as well manage that team to oversee things. I can then take it further, with things like selling average youngsters to them with a buyback in case they do come good, and effectively end up with a B team in the English League system.

Most ambitious one I have tried a couple of times is to manage the Red Bull teams in all four countries as a pooled scouting and development mega save. But for various reasons never got too far into it. Something I might try again in the future, though it appealed to me a bit more when Leipzig were working their way up and the Brazil team were lower leagues.

 

It does take time to play this way, but then I'm not trying to whizz through seasons/the game.

[Football Manager 2022 Live Stream - 15th October 7pm BST]

Haven't got time to watch it yet, but in terms of the M.E. can anyone tell me if there are any signs of those absolutely bizarre backwards cross-field diagonals that have been a blight on the last two editions? That was the first thing that needed eliminating 

[Football Manager 2022 Headline Features - In The Studio Part 2]

I think you do it through a combination of more text, better text, and the variety of it and also AI.

Dealing with the media and all that crud is a big part of the managers job. Like it or not it is a big part of football and drives the stories and narratives. And almost certainly could and should be represented a bit better in FM even though it will be way down the list of anyone's priorities.

You don't see any variance in behaviour or "culture" and it's all identikit. You get a bit more press stuff at the top levels compared to the bottom but that is it. There is scope though to do more:

- Different countries have different media behaviour. The British press build people up to knock them down. Listen to Gary Neville about his time at Valencia and the Spanish press would interrogate you about tactics etc. and call you useless if you didn't have the answers for them. You could build in cultural Press differences that managers have to navigate, and can build pressure on you amongst fans and ultimately board.

- Big clubs with big demands, eg. Barca, Real, etc. you're under immense press pressure and to provide soundbites.

- If you are building a name for yourself, eg. a tactical innovator then people want to hear what you have to say - a tactics podcast, Sky Sports, MOTD, whoever. Builds your profile and possibly clubs notice you in this fashion.

- Transfers: your star player wants out for example and you're asked about it all day, every day. There is no escaping it.

 

Now obviously some people will read that and react with abject horror to a lot more media stuff, and would be a vast amount of work to make that weighty enough with enough depth that you weren't fielding the same two dozen questions every time, but that is one way of building some sort of variety to the game world through the text-based environment.

[Football Manager 2022 Headline Features - In The Studio Part 2]

2 hours ago, jcw163 said:

As ever the only question I want answered is "can goalkeepers commit fouls yet?"

 

39 minutes ago, DP said:

This really needs addressing. It’s not a graphics question, it’s a fundamental ‘what can happen in the engine’ question and that needs to be as reflective to real life as possible. This would be a nice step in the right direction. 
 

Without it, it pretty much renders sub goalkeepers useless which is a big shame. 

Yeah would be great if goalkeepers weren't so limited, and collision detection has always been a problem. It's been well documented on here and discussed.

I also hope for a complete rework of what they're capable of both with and without the ball - currently "Sweeper keepers" for as long as can be remembered rush out/sweep up intermittently at best and role/attributes don't make a huge amount of difference.

Then there is the massive limits as to how they can get involved in possession, in FM the different sweeper keeper roles have always got graded by how far they'll dribble out and then smash it up the pitch. If you look at what modern teams do involving the keeper it's needed revamping for several years. As an example off the top of my head I caught a bit of a Brighton game the other week, and in that time I saw the goalkeeper Sanchez 40 yards out fully involved in the ball retention/recycling, and at one point when stuck in their penalty area being pressed he even ran out to the side past his centre back on the ball(!!!) to make an angle and an extra man so they could play out.

As with everything I'm sure it's difficult to introduce to the game, in stable fashion. But a substantial reworking of goalkeepers is years overdue and would be a big change to trumpet. We can but hope though.....

 

[Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)]

One I've always been meaning to ask..... Can I get an accurate description in layman's terms as to what Transition-Press and Transition-Restrict do/is the difference?

 

The in-game descriptions are as follows:

T-P: "Specific work on transitioning from defence to attacking through pressing the opponent"

T-R: "Specific work on transitioning to defence after losing possession by restricting the space in which the opposition can play"

I think the wording could be clearer, for instance take T-R... Is that falling back into defensive shape or looking to counter-press? If you are looking for your team to counter-press in transition which of the two options is better? Bits of both descriptions could apply.

Or is there no tactical benefit/meaning to these training sessions, and they are purely for attribute development?

 

[Football Manager 2022 Headline Features - In The Studio Part 2]

Yeah I'm another who would hope we can do something different with set pieces. I get some will find it fiddly and far too time consuming to set up but the current options are fairly limiting.

I'm not even talking about necessarily wholesale improvement - for me I'd like back the ability, as you could do on previous editions, to just place your players in "default" positions ie. in formation. For instance if I wanted to take short corners, you used to be able to (without even selecting a short option) via just putting everyone on Default have your RW on the side of the penalty area, your RB for an angled pass back down the touchline, and your RCM towards the corner of the penalty area. So plenty of scope for short corner interchanges.

Or for throw ins you could send a couple short whilst everyone else stayed in formation.

Now that's basically impossible to replicate, as you're forced to put people in the few limited straightjacketed options (and that's even before the bugs of FM21 regarding what instructions were obeyed, eg. your DM always vacating the centre of the pitch).

Come on SI, I get a stable set piece creator that isn't massively exploitative is hard work and why you disappoint some who want massive evolution of it.... but give us/me back the old possibilities at least.

[Football Manager 2022 Headline Features - In The Studio Part 2]

Yeah, I mean in fairness I totally get and do actually agree with the various meetings they're introducing and making it a bit less of a 'point and click' text based soulless environment. Ok it might still be point and (even more) click, but at least trying to build some sort of game world and realism to it I see the thinking. Still though to trumpet what seem to be essentially just UI changes as a headline feature is a bit..... weak. And as mentioned numerous times already, what is needed more than this is AI logic and response to greatly improve and for it to integrate much better with your club vision, tactics, etc. That is the gamechanger, and without it no amount of UI changes will make any difference.

Won't even get started on Deadline Day                                                                          

[Training & Youth Intake - A Brief Guide **Updated for FM20**]

Cheers for the reply @herne79, that's good to know it wouldn't be a wasted effort. And yes I will also be using additional focus also to further shape them.

Now to whack the whole squad on playmaker roles