Please Can I Have Some Feedback on the Failings of my Tactic

[joebailey141]

I am playing in the Championship with Boro in season 3. I have an excellent squad but keep losing to dire teams and am often unable to score against teams that sit back. 

 

In my mind, the tactic is logical and balanced with threats out wide and through the centre. Can anyone spot anything obvious that is a problem? I cannot put my finger on what is going wrong using the data or watching matches. I just lost 3-0 to a hugely inferior Portsmouth side and I could not get a foothold in the game. My players are fit and morale is largely good.

 

Thank you.

[Cloud9]

6 hours ago, joebailey141 said:

I am playing in the Championship with Boro in season 3. I have an excellent squad but keep losing to dire teams and am often unable to score against teams that sit back. 

 

In my mind, the tactic is logical and balanced with threats out wide and through the centre. Can anyone spot anything obvious that is a problem? I cannot put my finger on what is going wrong using the data or watching matches. I just lost 3-0 to a hugely inferior Portsmouth side and I could not get a foothold in the game. My players are fit and morale is largely good.

 

Thank you.

Looks good to me! A couple quick suggestions:

• DLP(d) annoys me as a role, DLP(s) also gives hold position w/a bit higher positioning. Downside to DLP is he can be a ball hog + get targeted and won't try to break the lines too much. I like to spread the progressive responsibility across several non playmaker roles in a tactic via PI tweaks to make your ball progression a bit more dynamic. 
• Looks like a counter attack based on the roles? Adding "pass into space" + "Counter" can help things run smoothly. 
• Defending on wide can leave big gaps, making defending on a midblock tricky. Unless the boys outside are proper rapid I'd dial that back in a bit.
• Most of your play might progress down the left side of the pitch w/the WB(a) + DLP. Angelo may find himself isolated and struggle (but check the pass maps). This is compounded by a IFB(d) on his side. That's a role I've mostly had success w/ in possession tactics, so you might consider a FB(s) + WB(s) combo for your midblock. 

[FeyenoordKings]

Can you smh upload the save? Would like to play and see how my kind of tactics that do good work.

In general I'd guess you are too cautious with everything so you'll lose the ball to people pressing you. I played with Leicester early in FM trying to play like they do in rl with massive possession and it was impossible to do, got wrecked every away game when people pressed. And Leicester squad ofc should be op for Championship.

[joebailey141]

8 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

Looks good to me! A couple quick suggestions:

• DLP(d) annoys me as a role, DLP(s) also gives hold position w/a bit higher positioning. Downside to DLP is he can be a ball hog + get targeted and won't try to break the lines too much. I like to spread the progressive responsibility across several non playmaker roles in a tactic via PI tweaks to make your ball progression a bit more dynamic. 
• Looks like a counter attack based on the roles? Adding "pass into space" + "Counter" can help things run smoothly. 
• Defending on wide can leave big gaps, making defending on a midblock tricky. Unless the boys outside are proper rapid I'd dial that back in a bit.
• Most of your play might progress down the left side of the pitch w/the WB(a) + DLP. Angelo may find himself isolated and struggle (but check the pass maps). This is compounded by a IFB(d) on his side. That's a role I've mostly had success w/ in possession tactics, so you might consider a FB(s) + WB(s) combo for your midblock. 

Thanks for the feedback Cloud.

 

Yes, I have been a little frustrated with the DLP(d). I have more direct passing and take more risks on his PIs but he is still a little too safe in possession. I have tried him on a support duty but that takes away my logic of having someone cover the attacking fullback by sitting deep. Perhaps I will try a DM and play around with duty.

 

I was aiming for a balanced tactic and style as oppose to counter attacking. As a better team in the division, I wanted to be controlling things a little more but have struggled to do this. I am also trying to avoid the obvious high tempo, counter, counter pressing, high press etc. I have actually just won promotion now so can maybe transition to a more counter attacking approach as I will be a weaker side now.

 

Playing on wide: I wanted the WB(a) and the winger(a) to make the pitch as wide as possible, to stretch the pitch. Most teams sat deep and narrow against me so this seemed logical. Perhaps it left me a little too open on the counter?

 

I was having problems with Angelo being isolate, you are right. I chose the SV role and put him on 'move in to channels' and this has helped narrow that gap and progress the play there. I also want to keep the IFB(d) role as I want a 325 shape in possession.

 

I think a may need more of a second goal threat and am thinking of changing the attacking left midfield slot to an IF(a) leaving space for the wing back to bomb forward. The middle role will stay as AM(s) or AP(s) and I will have a winger on support on the right with instructions to keep the width. Something like the picture below:

 

What I am looking to do (always) is get tactics working that that make sense football-wise.I don't want to just tick boxes because they work on FM. I'd appreciate any more thoughts 

Edited March 10 by joebailey141

[joebailey141]

44 minutes ago, FeyenoordKings said:

Can you smh upload the save? Would like to play and see how my kind of tactics that do good work.

In general I'd guess you are too cautious with everything so you'll lose the ball to people pressing you. I played with Leicester early in FM trying to play like they do in rl with massive possession and it was impossible to do, got wrecked every away game when people pressed. And Leicester squad ofc should be op for Championship.

Yeah, being pressed off the ball is an issue in away games but then I struggle to create enough when teams sit off

 

It is frustrating that a squad as strong as Leicester cannot implement a slow possession game effectively in the match engine...

 

If you can tell me how to smh upload a save then I can do it for you! 

[FeyenoordKings]

Just use a site like this file-upload.net and then send the link here.

[herne79]

36 minutes ago, joebailey141 said:

It is frustrating that a squad as strong as Leicester cannot implement a slow possession game effectively in the match engine...

Of course you can .  If you want to know how start a new thread, show your tactic and someone will be able to help.  There are also plenty of guides on the forum to read.

[HanziZoloman]

@joebailey141 I‘ll add some thoughts as well but @Cloud9 already gave some good advice. 
I‘d watch closely if you really achieve what you want. You mentioned a 235 build up and I wasn‘t sure if it’s a mistake and you meant 325 (?) but with a IFB(D) and two CD(D) you‘ll create a 3ATB lopsided. The DM(D) will be close maybe almost forming a back 4 in rest Defense (?) you‘ll need to check. If the DM were a HB he‘ll drop deep sometimes switching roles with a BPD who carries the ball out of Defense. Then you‘ll be able to play the WB(A) if you like. 
In Attack you ply on the counter, you‘ll need player who wait on the break to attack. The feeders could be the HB and the BPD. I‘d say either a WB(A) or a W(A) on the left, putting the other role on (S). Maybe a W(A) or an IW(A) on the right and of course an AF up front. Speed and dribbling on the flanks the AF should complement the play with good movement and pace as well. The SV arrives a bit later. 
At the moment I don’t see that attacks on the break, I imagine the IF(A) being a bit isolated and no penetration from the right wing.

[joebailey141]

14 minutes ago, HanziZoloman said:

@joebailey141 I‘ll add some thoughts as well but @Cloud9 already gave some good advice. 
I‘d watch closely if you really achieve what you want. You mentioned a 235 build up and I wasn‘t sure if it’s a mistake and you meant 325 (?) but with a IFB(D) and two CD(D) you‘ll create a 3ATB lopsided. The DM(D) will be close maybe almost forming a back 4 in rest Defense (?) you‘ll need to check. If the DM were a HB he‘ll drop deep sometimes switching roles with a BPD who carries the ball out of Defense. Then you‘ll be able to play the WB(A) if you like. 
In Attack you ply on the counter, you‘ll need player who wait on the break to attack. The feeders could be the HB and the BPD. I‘d say either a WB(A) or a W(A) on the left, putting the other role on (S). Maybe a W(A) or an IW(A) on the right and of course an AF up front. Speed and dribbling on the flanks the AF should complement the play with good movement and pace as well. The SV arrives a bit later. 
At the moment I don’t see that attacks on the break, I imagine the IF(A) being a bit isolated and no penetration from the right wing.

Thanks for your thoughts Hanzi.

 

Yes, that was a typo!! I of course mean a 325 build up shape.

[FeyenoordKings]

vor einer Stunde schrieb herne79:

Of course you can .  If you want to know how start a new thread, show your tactic and someone will be able to help.  There are also plenty of guides on the forum to read.

What is your mission here? As I said I played it and no no it's impossible in this way, I played Enzo Maresca real 3-2-5 tactic with possession instructions and every away game you get pressed to trash and ok got 2nd because Leicester team has top top players and wins when it's 1.5 to 1.1 xG. Good tactic should get like 115 points with Leicester. Same thing this thread here top top team for Championship but sensible tactic with DLP to pass loses.

[herne79]

1 hour ago, FeyenoordKings said:

What is your mission here? As I said I played it and no no it's impossible in this way, I played Enzo Maresca real 3-2-5 tactic with possession instructions and every away game you get pressed to trash and ok got 2nd because Leicester team has top top players and wins when it's 1.5 to 1.1 xG. Good tactic should get like 115 points with Leicester. Same thing this thread here top top team for Championship but sensible tactic with DLP to pass loses.

No mission?  You stated it’s impossible to play a possession game.  I’m merely saying it’s not impossible at all and if you would like advice you should start a new thread, post your system and someone will help improve it.  Further, there are plenty of threads which already explain how to do what you say is impossible.

[FeyenoordKings]

vor 54 Minuten schrieb herne79:

No mission?  You stated it’s impossible to play a possession game.  I’m merely saying it’s not impossible at all and if you would like advice you should start a new thread, post your system and someone will help improve it.  Further, there are plenty of threads which already explain how to do what you say is impossible.

what is possession then? if you try to play real 3-2-5 tactic with like DLP and F9 like you should with the Maresca replication and then use the instructions it is not possible as you can see here, some threads here I can't see anyone showing that?

If you are not amater player you should win the league with Leicester 2nd season or even like here Boro too but this DLP and possession AI just presses you and players lose the ball...

[Cloud9]

15 hours ago, joebailey141 said:

I was aiming for a balanced tactic and style as oppose to counter attacking. As a better team in the division, I wanted to be controlling things a little more but have struggled to do this. I am also trying to avoid the obvious high tempo, counter, counter pressing, high press etc. I have actually just won promotion now so can maybe transition to a more counter attacking approach as I will be a weaker side now.

I'd try playing without the AF then, he will look to continuously run in behind which will cause attempted through balls which will result in a turnover in possession no matter the outcome (goal, goal kick, or cut out pass). AF are very strong as always but it might be nice to get away from the role anyways  Any spearheading forward will do the trick nicely in a midblock (you can use supporting forwards as well but it's trickier). The poacher is a great option for a more patient approach as he won't run the channels.

You can play on a midblock as a more patient style as well! I would be attentive to what your opponent is doing in such a style.

15 hours ago, joebailey141 said:

Yes, I have been a little frustrated with the DLP(d). I have more direct passing and take more risks on his PIs but he is still a little too safe in possession. I have tried him on a support duty but that takes away my logic of having someone cover the attacking fullback by sitting deep. Perhaps I will try a DM and play around with duty.

Yea they will recycle possession primarily even w/PI adjustments. The Regista will launch progressive passes if you want a playmaker role who can do this. DM(s) is always a solid choice as well. 

15 hours ago, joebailey141 said:

Playing on wide: I wanted the WB(a) and the winger(a) to make the pitch as wide as possible, to stretch the pitch. Most teams sat deep and narrow against me so this seemed logical. Perhaps it left me a little too open on the counter?

This can work! I would just consider dialing it back against particularly difficult opposition. 

15 hours ago, joebailey141 said:

I think a may need more of a second goal threat and am thinking of changing the attacking left midfield slot to an IF(a) leaving space for the wing back to bomb forward. The middle role will stay as AM(s) or AP(s) and I will have a winger on support on the right with instructions to keep the width. Something like the picture below:

That should work nicely. I'm running a 4-3-3 midblock in my own save with a off footed winger (a) w/pace (as the movement is more reflective of what you'd see from a wide attacker irl I think), a tall PF up top and a more technical (if slower) IF(s) on the other side. 

15 hours ago, joebailey141 said:

What I am looking to do (always) is get tactics working that that make sense football-wise.I don't want to just tick boxes because they work on FM. I'd appreciate any more thoughts 

You're in the right place  most of the recreations / guides on here are attempts to get the ME to reflect IRL football as much as possible. Watching the matches, checking your pass maps and making small adjustments is a good next step to the tactic from here. I'd think quite a bit about the profile of player you're going to recruit to do each role in terms of what you want out of them. That will make a huge difference to how your tactic plays out, esp on a mid block where the defensive aspect of the game is more nuanced. 

Edited March 11 by Cloud9

[joebailey141]

18 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

I'd try playing without the AF then, he will look to continuously run in behind which will cause attempted through balls which will result in a turnover in possession no matter the outcome (goal, goal kick, or cut out pass). AF are very strong as always but it might be nice to get away from the role anyways  Any spearheading forward will do the trick nicely in a midblock (you can use supporting forwards as well but it's trickier). The poacher is a great option for a more patient approach as he won't run the channels.

You can play on a midblock as a more patient style as well! I would be attentive to what your opponent is doing in such a style.

Yea they will recycle possession primarily even w/PI adjustments. The Regista will launch progressive passes if you want a playmaker role who can do this. DM(s) is always a solid choice as well. 

This can work! I would just consider dialing it back against particularly difficult opposition. 

That should work nicely. I'm running a 4-3-3 midblock in my own save with a off footed winger (a) w/pace (as the movement is more reflective of what you'd see from a wide attacker irl I think), a tall PF up top and a more technical (if slower) IF(s) on the other side. 

You're in the right place  most of the recreations / guides on here are attempts to get the ME to reflect IRL football as much as possible. Watching the matches, checking your pass maps and making small adjustments is a good next step to the tactic from here. I'd think quite a bit about the profile of player you're going to recruit to do each role in terms of what you want out of them. That will make a huge difference to how your tactic plays out, esp on a mid block where the defensive aspect of the game is more nuanced. 

Thanks once again for the great feedback.

 

I wanted to update everyone on this thread about what has happened since opening. For my maiden season in the Premier League, I decided to keep the same shape but press less, be more narrow and counter attack more against the better opposition. This is what I went with:

 

 

[joebailey141]

The results have been quite amazing......

[HanziZoloman]

Cool!!