Tacticos vs Freedom.. Go out and play!

[roquesantacruz]

I have seen this debate a couple of times in the last few weeks on X. It seems to have stemmed from The Overlap podcast where Roy Keane and Gary Neville said in their time tactics were never spoken about, it was more on the players to react to situations as a team. It has also been mentioned by Ole Gunnar Solskjaer who wanted the players to express themselves with more freedom later in his tenure at Manchester United, after signing Ronaldo, Varane and Sancho. 

As one user put it better than I could ever regarding Sir Alex Ferguson approach and Roy Keanes comments 

“Someone that gave his players trust & freedom to play football & take risks. Understood the players played the game and not him. 

Letting them create a natural understanding and ability solve problems through their own creative processes & sócio affection. 

Proper manager”

It has also been mentioned as well as Sir Alex Ferguson, Carlo Ancelotti, former Brazil boss Tele are believers in this way of managing and dont hold tactics in as high a regard as some. Wayne Rooney has been quoted as saying the manager (Sir Alex) often told us to sort it ourselves, Graeme Souness famously told many signings ‘if I need to tell you how to play Football I shouldn’t have signed you!’. Ashley Cole said of his days at Arsenal it was often ‘off the cuff’ we just clicked and played naturally.

I find it a fascinating debate and in my opinion, its all open to interpretation, there are definitely a new wave of people especially on social media who seem to over complicate some pretty simple concepts with new terminology to make it sound like they’re a genius. Football will always come down to the players who cross the white line. There is a lot to be admired about carefully constructed tactics in the modern game but I feel it has taken away a lot of individual magic from the game, it has become almost robotic. 

As well as the debate itself, I don’t have much time on my hands for Football Manager these days, parenthood and work has taken over a lot of free time, which if it’s ever for gaming I just want to plug and play something, I used to spend hours and hours on the old games. 
 

But the old Football Manager/Champ Man addict is still in me somewhere, as it made me think how would you implement the Ancelotti/Ferguson freedom, go out and play sort of approach on FM? Would you use any instructions, none at all? What sort of player roles would you think would give that responsibility to the plaits on the pitch to make decisions and work together? 

 

 

[Cloud9]

5 hours ago, roquesantacruz said:

I have seen this debate a couple of times in the last few weeks on X. It seems to have stemmed from The Overlap podcast where Roy Keane and Gary Neville said in their time tactics were never spoken about, it was more on the players to react to situations as a team. It has also been mentioned by Ole Gunnar Solskjaer who wanted the players to express themselves with more freedom later in his tenure at Manchester United, after signing Ronaldo, Varane and Sancho. 

As one user put it better than I could ever regarding Sir Alex Ferguson approach and Roy Keanes comments 

“Someone that gave his players trust & freedom to play football & take risks. Understood the players played the game and not him. 

Letting them create a natural understanding and ability solve problems through their own creative processes & sócio affection. 

Proper manager”

It has also been mentioned as well as Sir Alex Ferguson, Carlo Ancelotti, former Brazil boss Tele are believers in this way of managing and dont hold tactics in as high a regard as some. Wayne Rooney has been quoted as saying the manager (Sir Alex) often told us to sort it ourselves, Graeme Souness famously told many signings ‘if I need to tell you how to play Football I shouldn’t have signed you!’. Ashley Cole said of his days at Arsenal it was often ‘off the cuff’ we just clicked and played naturally.

I find it a fascinating debate and in my opinion, its all open to interpretation, there are definitely a new wave of people especially on social media who seem to over complicate some pretty simple concepts with new terminology to make it sound like they’re a genius. Football will always come down to the players who cross the white line. There is a lot to be admired about carefully constructed tactics in the modern game but I feel it has taken away a lot of individual magic from the game, it has become almost robotic. 

As well as the debate itself, I don’t have much time on my hands for Football Manager these days, parenthood and work has taken over a lot of free time, which if it’s ever for gaming I just want to plug and play something, I used to spend hours and hours on the old games. 
 

But the old Football Manager/Champ Man addict is still in me somewhere, as it made me think how would you implement the Ancelotti/Ferguson freedom, go out and play sort of approach on FM? Would you use any instructions, none at all? What sort of player roles would you think would give that responsibility to the plaits on the pitch to make decisions and work together? 

 

 

Often times the media spin a narrative around a manager and Ancelotti is frequently (and incorrectly) seen as a man motivator only, overlooking his tactical ability. He builds his setup around his best players, preferring a flexible tactical style compared to an indoctrinated approach (ie. a manager who imposes his own tactical style upon the team like a Mourinho or Pep). 

• You can see this in the last year where he changed the formation to build around Bellingham, who is now pulling up trees at Madrid. This is reflected throughout his career and at the big clubs he's managed (Milan, Madrid, Chelsea etc.) where he's adopted different approaches to get the best out of his best players. He's also Everton's statistically best manager since the 90's, who certainly didn't have the quality of players to just succeed only through pats on the head.

This is as much to do with his understated persona as anything else. He's happy to let the player's take the limelight, whereas Mourinho will be crying on the pitch holding up his own number of European trophies on his fingers to remind you he's the main attraction (not the players).

The game is far more tactical than it used to be and any top coach or team has to be tactically proficient to be successful. Top teams don't carry passengers anymore.

Anything Souness or Soulskaer believe to be essential to run a successful team are likely best ignored. 

Edited March 7 by Cloud9

[R0ca]

@Cloud9when is your comprehensive tactical thread coming? Been reading a lot of your great contributions. 

[NineCloudNine]

It you were to make a clean sheet tactic with basic roles and put players in those positions with no instructions, they will be perfectly able to play football. Defenders will defend, midfielders will run about and pass, wingers will dribble and strikers will try to score goals.

What you will notice then is the importance of PPMs and personality attributes. A CMs with gets forward and shoots from distance will not play the same as one with high aggression and dives into tackles.

This is what the older managers you are referring to paid attention to. So players with the right personalities, skills and tendencies were put into positions where those exact things were needed.

It’s hard to do this in FM because so many roles have fixed instructions. Some if these - like playmakers shooting less - enrage me! But it can still largely be done and it’s a very rewarding way to play because the emphasis switches entirely to training, team cohesion and smart recruitment.

[Cloud9]

21 hours ago, R0ca said:

@Cloud9when is your comprehensive tactical thread coming? Been reading a lot of your great contributions. 

I will try to put something together when I get a moment  

[R0ca]

1 hour ago, Cloud9 said:

I will try to put something together when I get a moment  

I can’t wait

[roquesantacruz]

On 07/03/2024 at 10:59, NineCloudNine said:

It you were to make a clean sheet tactic with basic roles and put players in those positions with no instructions, they will be perfectly able to play football. Defenders will defend, midfielders will run about and pass, wingers will dribble and strikers will try to score goals.

What you will notice then is the importance of PPMs and personality attributes. A CMs with gets forward and shoots from distance will not play the same as one with high aggression and dives into tackles.

This is what the older managers you are referring to paid attention to. So players with the right personalities, skills and tendencies were put into positions where those exact things were needed.

It’s hard to do this in FM because so many roles have fixed instructions. Some if these - like playmakers shooting less - enrage me! But it can still largely be done and it’s a very rewarding way to play because the emphasis switches entirely to training, team cohesion and smart recruitment.

Yeah this is the way I feel Football used to be played and how I felt setting up teams on the old games, so much was down to ability of the player and putting them in the right position rather than loads of instructions

I know the game has changed and has become very methodical. There are bits of that I like but I love players being free to express themselves and taking responsibility, I will give it a try the way you said some time, clean slate and generic roles 👍🏼