The Manchester United thread 2005/06 - Way Past It's Sell-By Date

[Coldberg]

Also what's with Sunderland being on general sale but if you are a member you have to ring up rather than apply on the site?

Boro on general sale too Our first 3pm Saturday kick off for ages & it goes on general sale

[14AlanSmithifb]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Coldberg:

Also what's with Sunderland being on general sale but if you are a member you have to ring up rather than apply on the site?

Boro on general sale too Our first 3pm Saturday kick off for ages & it goes on general sale </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Won't the Boro game get change with FA Cup semi final being the same day?

[Terry Cheung]

Apparently Fergie almost named Gaby on the bench vs the Arse.

I expect he will come on as a sub against Sunderland rather than start, which will be fb.

I hope he's not being rushed though. I would rather he take it easy for the rest of the season, but Fergie probably promised him some games so that he can prove to Pekerman that he's fit.

[Andrew Drinkwater]

As your recent provider of Glazer stories, here's another:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The Glazer family have revised their business plan for Manchester United following concerns within the club, says chief executive David Gill.

"The board had concerns before they took over, but they've demonstrated they will listen," Gill told BBC Sport.

"Their business plan clearly allows for investment in the product - the team.

"They share the vision we have as a club and want to be the best football club in the world on and off the field. Man Utd have a very rosy future."

The Glazer family borrowed heavily in order to complete their estimated £800m buy-out of the club last June.

And there have been fears among supporters' groups that the club will be plunged into massive debt, leading to a big hike in ticket prices and a cap on money spent on new players.

On Monday, the club announced a 12.3% average rise in season ticket prices for next season, although a seat at United will still be less than seven other teams in the Premiership.

But Gill said: "Man Utd has always had sensible ticket pricing and we will continue to have prices that reflect demands for the tickets, the fantastic facilities and fantastic team.

"The debt within the club is serviceable and, what with stadium expansion and sponsorship deals, our income streams are in good shape."

Last week, United announced a £56m four-year shirt sponsorship deal with finance company AIG and next season Old Trafford's capacity will be 76,000, comfortably the biggest in the Premiership.

"There are funds there and if you are investing in the product - the stadium, the training grounds, the players - then you're going to get return.

"On the football side, the Glazers have been very supportive, for example buying Patrice Evra and Nemanja Vidic in January.

"I spoke to Joel (Glazer) and said, 'these are the players the manager is interested in' and he just said 'go do it'.

"They are prepared to take a long-term view on things - they're prepared to invest in order to get a return in years to come."

Meanwhile, Gill categorically denied the club could consider renaming Old Trafford.

When Malcolm Glazer took over American football side the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, he rebranded the ground as Houlihan's Stadium to promote his restaurant chain, as well as changing the team's colours.

"We're not going to rename Old Trafford," said Gill. "We can go on record and say that won't happen. I don't think there's value there and it's not something we, or they (the Glazers), want to do." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Keyser]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Father Senegal:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Keyser:

Arsenal Munich songs /o\

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What? There werent any ffs.

BTW everyone, Keyser joined in with quite a few Arsenal songs, seems your suspicions were correct </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

2, both in response to Wenger is a paedo chants.

the guys understand it was to maintain cover

[James07?]

Was Rich shaking his extra strong mints in the direction of K stand?

[Scatter]

still grinning. what a performance.

arsenal didn't have one shot at goal from within our 18 yard box in the entire 90 minutes.

THAT tackle by vidic to set up the first goal.

park being forty metres out when neville played in rooney and covering the distance in less than two seconds to score the tap in. uber

mickey being so fine again.

it's all good.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nick OGS20?:

If they were going to drop the necessary points, this certainly wasn't one of the most likely fixtures. It's more the manner in which they won today rather than the fact they did </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i didn't think chelsea played all that well at all tbh. in fact, they were very ordinary. it's just that west ham were totally dire. any half decent side would have taken points off of chelsea the way they played tbh.

i agree that if they beat bolton it's most certainly all over...

[mark g]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And there have been fears among supporters' groups that the club will be plunged into massive debt, leading to a big hike in ticket prices and a cap on money spent on new players. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, i hope we don't get plunged into massive debt. wtf?

[mark g]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If the young Rio Ferdinand modelled himself on anyone, you would imagine it must have been Franco Baresi, whose career as the incomparably calm and stylish pivot of the Milan and Italy defence was coming to an end when the Englishman was learning his trade as a West Ham apprentice. So it may have stung Ferdinand's ears when Baresi, now in charge of Milan's youth teams, came out with a few words of criticism at the weekend.

"Ferdinand has too much regard for himself," the great man said. "He plays as though he is looking at himself in the mirror. It is all very well to be elegant and to look good on the ball but you need to be aggressive and dependable. Ferdinand doesn't generate that sense of security and trust. He has the ability and technique but seems too preoccupied with the way he is looking to be a really solid defender."

Less qualified critics have been saying similar things for months. But perhaps it was Baresi's eminence that finally got the message through. The thunderous but technically impeccable sliding tackle with which Ferdinand thwarted an Arsenal attack in the 77th minute of Manchester United's 2-0 victory on Sunday seemed like an instant riposte, and just the sort of thing to warm Sven-Goran Eriksson's heart as he surveys his defensive options before the England squad set off for Germany.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was one of those sad moments when i was thinking of OTF, and all the people on here who think he can't defend.

[Saha]

I thought it was just BG who thought that?

[Keyser]

It was a cracking tackle, even the Gooners applauded it.

[James07?]

He’s certainly been getting his shorts dirty recently. Playing next to such a beast can only be good for him.

No offence to Wesley, but the Rio / Vidic partnership could verge on the perfect.

[mark g]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Saha:

I thought it was just BG who thought that? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have a look in some of the england threads sometime. The amount of people who would have preferred a Campbell/Terry partnership before (which was at least a credible argument while Campbell was on form and Rio wasn't, although i didn't agree with it), and now a Terry/Carragher one, was quite frightening.

[mark g]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by James07?:

He’s certainly been getting his shorts dirty recently. Playing next to such a beast can only be good for him.

No offence to Wesley, but the Rio / Vidic partnership could verge on the perfect. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Vidic has looked good so far, but he's not yet reached the level Wesley has been playing at all season.

[James07?]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mark g:

Vidic has looked good so far, but he's not yet reached the level Wesley has been playing at all season. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hence the could

I guess given that Vidic is two years younger and new to the country the potential is there for him to surpass Wesley...but to do that he needs to be in the team.

[mark g]

I've been thinking of our team for next season. I've come to the conclusion i wouldn't do this (and Fergie definitely wouldn't anyway), but i thought i'd throw it out there for a bit of debate to see what everyone else thought anyway, and it was more a thought that occurred to me when i was trying to crowbar Rio, Wes and Vidic into the team

Given the fact that we've now got three excellent centre backs, and we may only be able to afford one top player this summer, how would everyone feel about going to three at the back, something like this (I'm putting in Diarra as the new midfield general, but just include whoever we buy there, as we must get someone )

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">

VDS

Vidic Rio Wes

Neville Gaby

Diarra

Ronaldo Scholes

Rooney Ruud</pre>

If you want a more attacking option at wing back, you can switch Gaby into the back 3, and have Evra or even Giggsy there. You can also play Diarra and Scholes as more of a two with Ronaldo having more of a free role behind the front two. Rio has the protection of two CB's to be allowed to step up and play far more, which makes the best of his attributes.

The biggest problem in terms of cover is right wing back, as Wesley can cover a normal full back position but isn't attacking enough to cover wing back.

[mark g]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by James07?:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mark g:

Vidic has looked good so far, but he's not yet reached the level Wesley has been playing at all season. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hence the could

I guess given that Vidic is two years younger and new to the country the potential is there for him to surpass Wesley...but to do that he needs to be in the team. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's possible. But given the time Wes has had out, he's still improving as well. Is there that much more potential in Vidic than Wes that he deserves to be in ahead of him, given that Wes has barely put a foot wrong all season?

[foobR]

four four ****ing two

[mark g]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

David Pleat

Tuesday April 11, 2006

The Guardian

Watford have benefited from Manchester United's generosity this season by taking two young players on loan from Old Trafford. The goalkeeper Ben Foster and midfielder Chris Eagles have been important components in the team's terrific campaign under their impressive manager Adrian Boothroyd and his wily, experienced assistant Keith Burkinshaw.

Foster is a highly promising custodian fighting to establish himself among a big group of goalkeepers at United, and I think he is on the right lines. No one can say at this distance whether he will take over from Edwin van der Sar but he has a chance. A full season in the Championship will prove a wonderful career progression.

He was signed by United last summer from Stoke, I think after being spotted on loan at Wrexham, and was sent straight out to gain experience. He is an excellent kicker, has a good frame, safe hands and is brave, and that gives confidence to the defenders in front of him. I have watched him closely on three occasions and also like his attitude and organisational skills.

The wonderful Peter Schmeichel years at United and the subsequent shrewd signing of Van der Sar disguise the club's disappointing recruitment drive with goalkeepers over recent seasons. Massimo Taibi, Mark Bosnich, Ricardo López, Tim Howard, Roy Carroll and Luke Steele are among those who have joined and failed to succeed, but Foster may have more joy.

I saw him against Luton Town on Sunday in a tense local derby and he was alert from the first minute, anticipating a long pass by racing to the edge of his box and gathering. He made a couple of mistakes because of misjudgments, including with one clearance from a backpass, but they didn't seem to worry him. All goalkeepers make mistakes and the thing is to keep calm afterwards, and Foster seems to have that good temperament.

Blustery conditions and a bobbly pitch on Sunday were not ideal for a goalkeeper but he made a couple of superb interventions when Watford came under pressure. He took an excellent catch while rotating across his goal to snatch a high, hanging ball from Carlos Edwards and made a wonderful push-out from a Warren Feeney shot low to his left. When Ahmet Brkovic equalised for Luton, Foster had been left exposed and had no chance.

Foster's concentration and talking could be observed when Luton were on top, and his bossing of the experienced Malky Mackay and the other defenders was obvious. His kicking reminds me of Paul Robinson of Tottenham: long with a low trajectory and arrow-like.

This season has been a big one for him and he may need another year on loan in the cut and thrust of competitive football. Reserve games bear no comparison because of their relaxed atmosphere but it will be a sign of the confidence United have in him if he is recalled. When he does train there, the goalkeeping coach Tony Coton has the teaching quality to help Foster towards that precious No1 spot.

Age 23

Born Leamington Spa

Position Goalkeeper

Height 6ft 2in

Weight 12st 8oz

From Manchester United (loan)

Organisation 7½

Bravery 7½

Crosses 7½

Agility 7½

Kicking 9

Shot stopping 8

Cost £700,000

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[JulesMUFC]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by foobR:

four four ****ing two </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

whs.

I'm sure if we just sign one big name central midfielder we will manage with a 4 4 2, with JOS coming into some sort of ability. Jonah coming back with new founded european experince, Smithy returning from injury if thats what Fergie still see's him as, Giggsy not playing too badly in the middle, Scholesy returning from injury. I'd still like us to sign Nolan as well as I think he is a better option than most we have at the moment. Wouldnt say no to an extra winger too.

[James07?]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mark g:

It's possible. But given the time Wes has had out, he's still improving as well. Is there that much more potential in Vidic than Wes that he deserves to be in ahead of him, given that Wes has barely put a foot wrong all season? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, there's only one person to answer that.

[alilaw]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mark g:

I've been thinking of our team for next season. I've come to the conclusion i wouldn't do this (and Fergie definitely wouldn't anyway), but i thought i'd throw it out there for a bit of debate to see what everyone else thought anyway, and it was more a thought that occurred to me when i was trying to crowbar Rio, Wes and Vidic into the team

Given the fact that we've now got three excellent centre backs, and we may only be able to afford one top player this summer, how would everyone feel about going to three at the back, something like this (I'm putting in Diarra as the new midfield general, but just include whoever we buy there, as we must get someone )

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">

VDS

Vidic Rio Wes

Neville Gaby

Diarra

Ronaldo Scholes

Rooney Ruud</pre>

If you want a more attacking option at wing back, you can switch Gaby into the back 3, and have Evra or even Giggsy there. You can also play Diarra and Scholes as more of a two with Ronaldo having more of a free role behind the front two. Rio has the protection of two CB's to be allowed to step up and play far more, which makes the best of his attributes.

The biggest problem in terms of cover is right wing back, as Wesley can cover a normal full back position but isn't attacking enough to cover wing back. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We're too toothless down the left wing there imo. Gaby's crossing is dire at best, and we all know what happens when Scholesy drift's out wide. I know you're saying Ronaldo could go occupy a free role and drift either way, but he's still not hugging the touchline as he's been doing so effectively for us.

Alternatively as you say, we could start with Giggs there... but then you've removed the only reason for starting with that formation in the first place - giving Wes, Vidic and Rio a place in the first XI

Moreover, it's not really in the spirit of United to start the match with 5 defenders and a defensive minded midfielder is it?

Still, in the interest of debate...

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">

VDS

Nev Vidic Rio Gaby

Scholes Diarra

Ronaldo Rooney Park

Ruud

</pre>

(please work).

Similar to the end of 2003. Rooney, Park and Ronaldo have the talent to switch positions there, with Giggs and Ole (;**)) providing back up. Saha covers Ruud, naturally. Scholes can occupy a Pirlo-esque deep playmaker role (which Carrick could also do if we're lucky enough to get him). For more defensive situations... (big breath) bring in Wes and move Rio into Scholes's position. I know he c0cked it up big style in his last game there, but I still don't think we've given him enough of a chance.

Naturally, O'Shea to choose his own position and play whereever he likes.

[mark g]

I like that formation ali, but i'm not sure it works for our personell now. Personally i believe the whole point of setting it up the way you have, is that you allow your wide players much more freedom, and tell them to play as out and out wingers. If you do that, i feel you need two mobile, tackling type players in the midfield to compensate for the fact you've got less cover out wide. For that reason, you can't play Scholes that deep. So you either have to drop him, or play either him, or more likely Rooney, wide in the Park role, which again isn't ideal.

Having said that, the personnel you have there but in a straight 4-4-2 looks great, and will probably be our first XI next season (obviously with the same proviso as i said for mine, Diarra means whoever we get in). The only real weak spot is Park, as he's still not been convincing yet, although i still have hopes for him. Also, sacrilege as it may be, we still have to see if Scholes comes back on form when he's back in a 4-4-2 or similar. He's spent more time in the last two season off form than on.

And a big no-no to Rio in midfield for me.

[JulesMUFC]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The only real weak spot is Park, as he's still not been convincing yet, although i still have hopes for him. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont really agree with that, Park has been great in alot of games, and the games where he has been awesome have out weighed the games where he has been ineffective at best. I think its a bit harsh calling him the weak spot, he has been alot more productive on the wing than Giggsy has been. Just an extra winger as cover/differnt option would be marvelous.

[Saha]

I'd like to see alilaw's tactic if we got Diarra and Carrick, not so sure I'd have Scholes there. That is if Scholes comes back anyway.

[pjburrage]

If we but Diarra, we better hope he's not like our last midfielder we brought from France. But we do need someone in that role. But we must play 4-4-2 with Rooney roaming around.

[Saha]

United chief Gill hails Glazers' ownership

David Gill feels Malcolm Glazer's decision to scale down his ambitious business plan is proof Manchester United's new owner has listened to pre-takeover concerns.

As Red Devils chief executive prior to the American's £790million buy-out last summer, Gill authorised the release of at least three statements warning Glazer his plans for the club were too aggressive.

The warnings did not put Glazer off and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers owner subsequently surprised many observers by opting to keep Gill in post and allowing him to control day-to-day operations at Old Trafford.

However, it now transpires Gill's cautionary words have had a major effect, with Glazer revising the business plan most financial experts agreed was impossible to attain, a view which led to fears amongst supporters about the club's owner's ability to pay off the massive debt required to complete the takeover.

'We did have concerns and we now have in place the business plan which was in place when they took over,' Gill told BBC Radio Five Live.

'They (the Glazer family) have demonstrated a willingness to listen to us. We had concerns and we articulated them publicly, as we had to do.

'We are going to do a new, long-term business plan. The debt is serviceable and with the stadium expansion and the sponsorship deals, we believe we are in good shape.'

Privately, sources close to the Glazer camp insist the business plan was always a `moveable feast', while a refinancing of the £275million borrowed from hedge funds to complete the deal is `conceivable'.

Having not been allowed by Gill to conduct a full examination of United's accounts prior to the takeover, there were bound to be some assumptions made, while the unexpected loss of the Vodafone shirt deal forced a hasty rethink of their plans to overhaul the club's sponsorship plans.

'Assumptions have to be changed and modified all the time,' added the source. 'What has happened at Wembley is a prime example of that - and that situation has a knock-on effect at Manchester United.'

The two most recent delays to the Wembley construction project means that Old Trafford will now host five England games it would not normally have expected to; the pre-World Cup friendlies against Hungary and Jamaica, two autumn Euro 2008 qualifiers against Andorra and Macedonia, plus a friendly in the middle of August.

While the details of Glazer's running of the club continue to be debated, they have pointed out that on the issue which matters most to United fans, funding Sir Alex Ferguson's squad, they have delivered.

The purchases of Edwin van der Sar, Park Ji-sung, Nemanja Vidic and Patrice Evra have all been sanctioned and while the search goes on for a key midfielder to replace departed skipper Roy Keane, the Glazer camp insist the cash for a reinforcement is there, as it has been since the start of the current campaign.

'The Glazers' business plan clearly allows for investment in the product - the team,' said Gill.

'They share the vision we have as a club and want to be the best football club in the world; on and off the field.

'Manchester United has a very rosy future.'

[Saha]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by pjburrage:

If we but Diarra, we better hope he's not like our last midfielder we brought from France. But we do need someone in that role. But we must play 4-4-2 with Rooney roaming around. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

tbf djemba never sonned ac milan

[alilaw]

Knew the Rio thing wouldn't get through

I'm not sure about the fact that the two deep lying midfielders both need to be hugely mobile - in 02/03 we had Pip and Keano in a lot of the time, with Roy coming back after that operation a much more reserved player. By playing Roony in behind Ruud you also give him the duty of tracking back a bit more (something the lad does anyway, to his eternal credit) which should take the strain off Scholes and AN Other a bit. The two potential problems I see are that (a) this may limit Rooney's creativity and, yes, I suppose (b) consequently Ruud might suffer from lack of support - although this didn't hinder him in 03.

I can't believe you think Park's not convincing! I think he's desperately unlucky not to start every week - he's excellent with the ball at his feet running at opponents, get's into to good positions and is a very intelligent passer of the ball to boot. If the lad could finish he'd be one of the best premiership players around.

I completely agree about Scholesy. A lot depends on who we get in during the summer, but we have to accept the fact that his bursts into the box may be gone from his game. He's still probably going to be the best passer of the ball we have though.

[pjburrage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Saha:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by pjburrage:

If we but Diarra, we better hope he's not like our last midfielder we brought from France. But we do need someone in that role. But we must play 4-4-2 with Rooney roaming around. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

tbf djemba never sonned ac milan </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

but he did sonned the French national team when they were the best in the world. Seeing Diarra in more than just the CL he doesn't look like he dominates games, he's not even the best defender in his team, and nowhere near the best defensive midfielder in France.

[pjburrage]

best midfielder in his team even

[mark g]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JulesMUFC:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The only real weak spot is Park, as he's still not been convincing yet, although i still have hopes for him. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont really agree with that, Park has been great in alot of games, and the games where he has been awesome have out weighed the games where he has been ineffective at best. I think its a bit harsh calling him the weak spot, he has been alot more productive on the wing than Giggsy has been. Just an extra winger as cover/differnt option would be marvelous. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think there's been many games at all where he's been awesome, and there have been plenty, especially recently, where's he's ranged from average to anonymous. I'm not saying in any way that he's been terrible, and i'm not ruling out him improving to a good enough level, but so far he's not shown enough to be considered good enough to be the starting left winger should another option present itself.

The comparison with Giggs isn't valid, as we're not talking about whether Park's the best left wing option we have on the books at the moment, he obviously is, it's whether the quality and consistency he's shown is at the level required for a team hoping to compete for the Premiership and the champions league. So far it hasn't been.

[Scatter]

all this f*cking about with formations.

have you forgotten how diabolical we were just recently? the chants of "442" and "attack attack attack"?

i remember as fondly as anyone the 4231 and how fluidly we played using it, but the personnel has now changed and our strengths lie elsewhere.

there is also no need to shoehorn your best 11 players into the starting lineup if they don't fit - that's just asking for trouble and robbing you of strength in depth.

442 must stay!

gk: eddie - timmeh - foster/random youth player

rb: nev - brown - o'shea - pique

cb: rio & viddy - brown - silvestre - pique - gabby - o'shea

lb: gabby - evra - silvestre

rw: park - cronaldo - solskjaer - rooneh

cm: mascherano - o'shea - fletcher

am: scholes - fletcher - giggs

lw: cronaldo - giggs - park - rooneh

f: rooneh - rossi - solskjaer

st: ruuud - sahahahaha - solskjaer

random american style depth chart in honour of the glazers /o\

[JulesMUFC]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

Gary Neville and Wayne Rooney have hailed Park Ji-sung as an unsung hero at Manchester United.

Park tapped in the clincher in the 2-0 win against Arsenal and, although that was his first Premiership goal for the club after his effort against Fulham has been recorded as a Carlos Bocanegra own goal, the 25-year-old has attracted praise from his colleagues.

The former PSV Eindhoven midfielder is also a popular figure amongst United's supporters as his energetic performances have marked him down as a valuable squad player.

Park contributed to a splendid team display against The Gunners on Sunday and was on hand to convert from close range after some terrific approach work from Rooney.

"Ji doesn't get the credit he deserves," commented Rooney afterwards. "He makes a lot of runs.

"He's like a little whippet and just keeps going!"

Captain Neville revealed the South Korean is difficult to play against in training and also praised his fitness levels.

"Not one of his team-mates underestimate his quality," said the England right back.

"In training, he is a nightmare.

"He runs through all the time, a bit like Freddie Ljungberg has done for Arsenal over the years.

"He'll be a snip at the money we paid for him as somebody who can play left or right and work up and down all day."

Neville is concentrating on beating Sunderland on Friday night, live on PremPlus, to keep the title race alive.

"A month ago, the gap between us and Chelsea was 18 points," he stated. "But now we can cut that gap to four points against Sunderland on Friday night.

"That would be an incredible position to be in, whatever happens at the end of the season."

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rooney > You.

and for PJ who is a better DMC in france? Diarria isnt as good as Juninho granted, but Juninho is basically fbbbbbb.

[alilaw]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scatter:

all this f*cking about with formations.

have you forgotten how diabolical we were just recently? the chants of "442" and "attack attack attack"?

i remember as fondly as anyone the 4231 and how fluidly we played using it, but the personnel has now changed and our strengths lie elsewhere.

there is also no need to shoehorn your best 11 players into the starting lineup if they don't fit - that's just asking for trouble and robbing you of strength in depth.

442 must stay!

gk: eddie - timmeh - foster/random youth player

rb: nev - brown - o'shea - pique

cb: rio & viddy - brown - silvestre - pique - gabby - o'shea

lb: gabby - evra - silvestre

rw: park - cronaldo - solskjaer - rooneh

cm: mascherano - o'shea - fletcher

am: scholes - fletcher - giggs

lw: cronaldo - giggs - park - rooneh

f: rooneh - rossi - solskjaer

st: ruuud - sahahahaha - solskjaer

random american style depth chart in honour of the glazers /o\

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good roster

I was only fecking about with formations in the interest of debate. If you're reeeeeeeeal lucky, I might break out my old CM 3-4-1-2 in a bit.

In terms of depth - Rooney must not be wasted on the wings, especially in a four four two. If anything, do what we did against Bolton and play him as the attack-minded midfielder.

[Saha]

That's great Scatter, but it still doesn't ease my worries over who we'll get in next year at Point-Guard, as nobody in the draft stands out as an obvious replacement?

[Scatter]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Saha:

That's great Scatter, but it still doesn't ease my worries over who we'll get in next year at Point-Guard, as nobody in the draft stands out as an obvious replacement? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i'm more concerned about the prospect of missing out on a restricted free agent because the franhisees are too tight fisted, and in the long term ending up paying more as a regular starter is placed on injured reserve and we rely on some 15th round draft pick who went to school at oxford.

[mark g]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by alilaw:

Knew the Rio thing wouldn't get through

I'm not sure about the fact that the two deep lying midfielders both need to be hugely mobile - in 02/03 we had Pip and Keano in a lot of the time, with Roy coming back after that operation a much more reserved player. By playing Roony in behind Ruud you also give him the duty of tracking back a bit more (something the lad does anyway, to his eternal credit) which should take the strain off Scholes and AN Other a bit. The two potential problems I see are that (a) this may limit Rooney's creativity and, yes, I suppose (b) consequently Ruud might suffer from lack of support - although this didn't hinder him in 03.[/b] </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Regardless of whether they were both mobile, they were both defensive in nature. Pip could go hunting the ball down, and Keane was still a tackler who's reading of the game got him into covering positions his legs alone might not have. The main point is that if you relieve the wide players of those defensive duties, your two central players have a much greater defensive burden, one which Scholes isn't suited for.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

I can't believe you think Park's not convincing! I think he's desperately unlucky not to start every week - he's excellent with the ball at his feet running at opponents, get's into to good positions and is a very intelligent passer of the ball to boot. If the lad could finish he'd be one of the best premiership players around. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

On his best days, most of that is right. I would say i'd rate him as good in those areas you mentioned, rather than excellent, and his passing suffers the same as his shooting when he gets into really dangerous areas at times, he seems to snatch at things or panic a little. But the biggest issue is that those best days are way too few and far between at the moment. There just haven't been enough games where he's had enough of an impact.

Again, i have to stress, this is not to dismiss him at all. I said myself we'd need 12 months at least to see the best of him, given how long it took for him to settle in Holland enough to make an impact. But you also can't assume he'll keep improving to the right level, you need to see it, so if there was money available after sorting the midfield, i'd be looking to strengthen the wide area's next, so he could be first backup rather than first choice.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

I completely agree about Scholesy. A lot depends on who we get in during the summer, but we have to accept the fact that his bursts into the box may be gone from his game. He's still probably going to be the best passer of the ball we have though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

the one issue about that is whether he was sitting deeper in midfield for his own reasons, or under orders in the midfield three. That's why it'll be interesting to see how he does back in his usual position when (or even if ) he comes back.

[pjburrage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">and for PJ who is a better DMC in france? Diarria isnt as good as Juninho granted, but Juninho is basically fbbbbbb. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pedretti for one has been better in my opinion in the league this season.

[pjburrage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">"He's like a little whippet and just keeps going!" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rooney in cannabalism shocker.

[James M]

Pedretti's barely played this season :/

[Saha]

Isn't Pedretti Diarra's backup?

[James M]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Saha:

Isn't Pedretti Diarra's backup? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes

[mark g]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JulesMUFC:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

Gary Neville and Wayne Rooney have hailed Park Ji-sung as an unsung hero at Manchester United.

Park tapped in the clincher in the 2-0 win against Arsenal and, although that was his first Premiership goal for the club after his effort against Fulham has been recorded as a Carlos Bocanegra own goal, the 25-year-old has attracted praise from his colleagues.

The former PSV Eindhoven midfielder is also a popular figure amongst United's supporters as his energetic performances have marked him down as a valuable squad player.

Park contributed to a splendid team display against The Gunners on Sunday and was on hand to convert from close range after some terrific approach work from Rooney.

"Ji doesn't get the credit he deserves," commented Rooney afterwards. "He makes a lot of runs.

"He's like a little whippet and just keeps going!"

Captain Neville revealed the South Korean is difficult to play against in training and also praised his fitness levels.

"Not one of his team-mates underestimate his quality," said the England right back.

"In training, he is a nightmare.

"He runs through all the time, a bit like Freddie Ljungberg has done for Arsenal over the years.

"He'll be a snip at the money we paid for him as somebody who can play left or right and work up and down all day."

Neville is concentrating on beating Sunderland on Friday night, live on PremPlus, to keep the title race alive.

"A month ago, the gap between us and Chelsea was 18 points," he stated. "But now we can cut that gap to four points against Sunderland on Friday night.

"That would be an incredible position to be in, whatever happens at the end of the season."

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rooney > You.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, they never come out with stuff like that about the guy who's confidence needs a bit of a boost, do they? And funny they always talk about how great people are in training if they're not quite showing it on the pitch.

[Scatter]

almost forgot this...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The run ins:

Chelsea

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">

DATE HOME AWAY VENUE COMPETITION POINTS

Apr 1 Birmingham 0-0 Chelsea St Andrews Premiership 79

Apr 9 Chelsea 4-1 West Ham Stamford Bridge Premiership 82

Apr 15 Bolton v Chelsea Reebok Stadium Premiership

Apr 17 Chelsea v Everton Stamford Bridge Premiership

Apr 22 Chelsea v Liverpool Old Trafford FA Cup --

Apr 29 Chelsea v Man Utd Stamford Bridge Premiership

May 2 Blackburn v Chelsea Ewood Park Premiership

May 7 Newcastle v Chelsea St James' Park Premiership

</pre>

Manchester United

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">

DATE HOME AWAY VENUE COMPETITION POINTS

Apr 1 Bolton 1-2 Man Utd Reebok Std Premiership 72

Apr 9 Man Utd 2-0 Arsenal Old Trafford Premiership 75

Apr 14 Man Utd v Sunderland Old Trafford Premiership

Apr 17 Tottenham v Man Utd White Hart Lane Premiership

Apr 23 Man Utd v Middlesbrough Old Trafford Premiership

Apr 29 Chelsea v Man Utd Stamford Bridge Premiership

May 7 Man Utd v Charlton Old Trafford Premiership

</pre>

Liverpool

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">

DATE HOME AWAY VENUE COMPETITION POINTS

Apr 1 West Brom 0-2 Liverpool The Hawthorns Premiership 67

Apr 9 Liverpool 1-0 Bolton Anfield Premiership 70

Apr 16 Blackburn v Liverpool Ewood Park Premiership

Apr 22 Chelsea v Liverpool Old Trafford FA Cup --

Apr 26 West Ham v Liverpool Upton Park Premiership

Apr 29 Liverpool v Aston Villa Anfield Premiership

May 7 Portsmouth v Liverpool Fratton Park Premiership

</pre> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[James M]

Why are Liverpool even there?

[pjburrage]

yeah, but like I say, when he's played, he's looked better than Diarra has. Diarra only seems to turn up in Europe, certainly not putting a control on the game like Keano did for us. Maybe due to Pedretti being a backup he is trying harder, but I've liked his play.

[James07?]

haha. alilaw is falling in the mark g tactics trap

[Saha]

Probably so we can point and laugh and mock at the scousers, who supposedly had 2nd place in the bag awhile ago.

[alilaw]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mark g:

Again, i have to stress, this is not to dismiss him at all. I said myself we'd need 12 months at least to see the best of him, given how long it took for him to settle in Holland enough to make an impact. But you also can't assume he'll keep improving to the right level, you need to see it, so if there was money available after sorting the midfield, i'd be looking to strengthen the wide area's next, so he could be first backup rather than first choice.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Again though, we come back to the question of when the midfield is 'sorted'. I'd argue that we need 3 players to come in of varying capacity, with at least one 'proven' article (Gattutso), a young un' and then the long-term Scholes replacment. I know that others think that only 2 are needed, and would then look to the wings.

One thing that I think Giggsy showed on Sunday is that he still does have the ability to play wide left. I think that leaves us with enough cover there, particularly if / when Ole comes back.