With Ball / Without Ball formations

[wazza]

The very old versions of this game used to have with ball and without ball formations, way back when it was Championship manager.

Alot of teams now seem to have two formations when you watch them, the team I watch seems to play 4411 in the defensive phase and a 4231 in an attacking phase, how do you get this to work on FM.  I have tried using roles and duties as an experiment and the heat map showed a 4231 formation in the defensive phase  (without ball - when it should have been as my base formation 442) as well as the attacking phase even though my start formation was 442 for the defensive phase - which Im guessing is the starting formation as when you tweak the players instructions it says movement for when team has the ball.

For my outside wingers I had them as inverted on the attacking duty which the intention was to push them further forward then the team had the ball so that we would be left with 2 in central midfield and then they joined and went close to the CAM behind the striker.  At times the team I watch also plays with high full backs/wing backs who join the attack and the left sided wide midfielder comes into the central area and joins alongside the CAM  so in affect you can have a 2241 formation.  Again can you replicate this in game.  I'm guessing your starting formation when you set your tactics is the one without the ball and then you build through the correct roles and duties to get the formation you want with the ball in attack.  What I dont get is as described my formation was 4411 in the defensive phase but looking at the graphs its showed as 4231 and of which I cannot understand why. 

Any advice appreciated on who you get the with and without ball formations to work how you want them to.

Edited October 1, 2023 by wazza

[herne79]

5 hours ago, wazza said:

What I dont get is as described my formation was 4411 in the defensive phase but looking at the graphs its showed as 4231 and of which I cannot understand why.

Because the 4411 is essentially a 4231, especially when you use 2 attack minded wide players.  They’ll be so high up the pitch when you lose the ball and transition back to defence that their average positions will show accordingly.

However, don’t rely on average position charts.  Watch how your players behave on the pitch - if they broadly behave how you want them to then you’re ok.  Only make changes if not.