Thoughts on this tactic?

[scornflakes]

Hi everyone. Want your thoughts on this tactic I built.

The idea here is to create opportunities and chances for the Poacher. So I have the DLF and IF to feed passes to the Poacher. I have the Segundo Volante to act as a runner from deep and an extra passing option. The Winger I've set to have Cross Near Post as well so the DLF can receive passes from him then feed that off to the Poacher. I'm also imagining the full backs to deliver crosses when they see fit.

No specific team instructions yet. Mentality set to Balanced. Might add Work Ball Into Box based off of the number of shots missed from outside the box in the first five matches I've used the tactic.

[Cloud9]

4 minutes ago, scornflakes said:

Hi everyone. Want your thoughts on this tactic I built.

The idea here is to create opportunities and chances for the Poacher. So I have the DLF and IF to feed passes to the Poacher. I have the Segundo Volante to act as a runner from deep and an extra passing option. The Winger I've set to have Cross Near Post as well so the DLF can receive passes from him then feed that off to the Poacher. I'm also imagining the full backs to deliver crosses when they see fit.

No specific team instructions yet. Mentality set to Balanced. Might add Work Ball Into Box based off of the number of shots missed from outside the box in the first five matches I've used the tactic.

4-2-4  works quite well in the ME.

Consider having the left FB play as a wb to give you width on the left. Flip your pivot so the volant can go up with the winger. Flip the DLF and poacher so IF isn't competing with the poacher on goalscoring chances. Have a Tall DLF, would consider just a straight up TF(s). Consider a DM(s) w/hold position instead of DM(D) + potentially one BPD. Add Counter + Pass into space.

That will solve your width, putting pressure back on the opposition, and ball progression from your third of the pitch. 

[scornflakes]

19 minutes ago, Cloud9 said:

4-2-4  works quite well in the ME.

Consider having the left FB play as a wb to give you width on the left. Flip your pivot so the volant can go up with the winger. Flip the DLF and poacher so IF isn't competing with the poacher on goalscoring chances. Have a Tall DLF, would consider just a straight up TF(s). Consider a DM(s) w/hold position instead of DM(D) + potentially one BPD. Add Counter + Pass into space.

That will solve your width, putting pressure back on the opposition, and ball progression from your third of the pitch. 

I'm keen to understand the reasoning with the DM(s) + BPD and the added instructions. Also, what did you see as the weakness/es of this tactic?

Edited September 13, 2023 by scornflakes

[Cloud9]

1 hour ago, scornflakes said:

I'm keen to understand the reasoning with the DM(s) + BPD and the added instructions. Also, what did you see as the weakness/es of this tactic?

So whenever I look at a tactic I look at:

• Is there natural width (yes on the right side, no on the left).
• Is there a threat to the opposition (hmm kinda, but not really because midblock w/no counter or pass into space).

If those two boxes aren't checked, chances are the tactic will struggle in the ME unless you really know what you're doing.

In terms of the DM(s), BPD changes:

• Pitch is split into thirds.
  • Your defensive third has very little to progress the ball forward (running with or passing). 
    • BPD gives you a center back who can do that!
    • DM(s) gives you a higher position DM who can help progress the ball up the pitch and close the giant gap in the center of the pitch.
    • Suggested wingback change gives you another competent player of progressing the ball. 

In terms of weakness:

• Your middle double pivot is fairly isolated. Against a midfield 3 or 4, the opposition can push his lines up and play through the middle (cutting off your front 3). 
  • You'll have to play very direct counter attack in those situations and have a very competent pivot to screen your backline (high tempo, direct, counter, pass into space). 
  • Would consider a PF(s) w/narrow team width for a formation like this, can help to create a pressing trap in the open box to funnel the opposition into and win the ball back. TF(s) gives you the outlet for a long ball. Height on either is a good solution as both will hold up the ball (like the DLF). 
    • If you want to keep the DLF(s) and he's short, consider running a WTM instead of the IF.
  • If the pivot isn't exceptional, you could lose control of the game and get pinned in. 

In terms of strengths:

• You've got a double pivot and double striker partnership which can help you as a weaker team. You can create a "complete" player in the pairing (height, passing, end product, physicality etc.).
• Potential for a really strong break once possession is won back.
• Ability to switch to a classical 4-4-2 in moments of a match for a heavy defensive block. Dropping the IF back could help you create that pressing trap + (add tight marker to the wide players, show inside, tackle harder, stop crosses, drop off more). 
• Ability to hit crosses early.
• SV + Winger combo on the same side is one of the best role combos in the game.

Would consider finding a mentality. I like balanced, but I've personally found a lot of success on a mid block under Defensive (low tempo, patient) or Positive (more risks, higher tempo). 

• Finding the width you want to play at will help as well.
  • If narrow, you'll be hard to break down. 
  • On wider settings you can take advantage of super quick wide players (but makes you easier to play through).
  • I've liked narrow as a good starting point for my own defensive blocks and taking it a tick +/- depending on how the game is progressing.

Hope some of that helps

Edited September 13, 2023 by Cloud9

[jens_dewit]

Great to see some other takes on what I've been (kind of) using for the past 2 years. @Cloud9 I was wondering if you'd do me the favour of shining your light on my adaptation of this?

 

This started out with a HB with a DLP(s) in front of him, but trying to use some Cleon knowledge, I changed to a double pivot pairing. My team currently is only average, but even when playing as Celtic we have great games and then some lesser games. Consistency seems way more off then last year for some reason. 

I gues my mid block might be to blame for some of that, without expressly aiming for the counter. Been thinking of changing the DLF to something else, perhaps a CF(s). Tha AF does great work often, but has some off games as well. The IF doesn't score as much as he used to last year, which is a real shame... might change him to an IW(a) an put more focus on the AF.

Finally, I have the impression that my IWB worked a lot better last year, but that might have something to do with the double pivot taking up more space?

[Cloud9]

On 14/09/2023 at 23:34, jens_dewit said:

Great to see some other takes on what I've been (kind of) using for the past 2 years. @Cloud9 I was wondering if you'd do me the favour of shining your light on my adaptation of this?

 

This started out with a HB with a DLP(s) in front of him, but trying to use some Cleon knowledge, I changed to a double pivot pairing. My team currently is only average, but even when playing as Celtic we have great games and then some lesser games. Consistency seems way more off then last year for some reason. 

I gues my mid block might be to blame for some of that, without expressly aiming for the counter. Been thinking of changing the DLF to something else, perhaps a CF(s). Tha AF does great work often, but has some off games as well. The IF doesn't score as much as he used to last year, which is a real shame... might change him to an IW(a) an put more focus on the AF.

Finally, I have the impression that my IWB worked a lot better last year, but that might have something to do with the double pivot taking up more space?

Hm usually you invert a wingback to get that double pivot in a midfield 3. Seems a bit redundant w/an existing double pivot, and might be preventing the IWB  from inverting. I would just watch how it plays in the ME, but I'd consider picking between the SV(a) and the IWB(a). If you keep the current setup, one of those moved to support will give you a bit of balance. If the IWB is inverting on that attacking run, despite the pivot, I would drop the SV to support and put the DM(d) as a DM(s)/w hold position. I think that gives you a much more competitive midfield to battle against a 3. 

• If you're Celtic, I'd look to play a high lines system, not a midblock. The old firm have a huge financial edge over the competition and it's probably on you to control most of your domestic games outside of your visit to Ibrox. The setup looks well suited to a wide approach where you can maximize those runs from the attack duty SV/IWB. I think the DLF and IF will both benefit from playing higher up the pitch as well. 
• Do you need counter press and press more urgently? Might pick one between the two, and drop press the GK. You want to pin them in but you look vulnerable to a counter, so encouraging the opposition to hoof the ball will be counter productive. 
  • You mention the boys being inconsistent this year. One of the big changes to the ME on FM23 was the fatigue changes which will really impact you if you all out press all the time. 
• One of the big problems I see is a lack of creativity and ball passers in the first 2 thirds of the pitch. There's quite a few players looking to score for themselves but not a lot of providers. Throwing in a BPD and some passing ability into the pivot could be quite nice here.
• You're also asking a lot of the DM(d) and your two CBs. The DM(d) is going to be very isolated paired with an Attack duty volante. The back 4 can also get caught out with both wingbacks given license to get forward. Height on the DM(d) will be essential in cutting out some of the oppositions attempted counter attack long balls.
• Last 4-2-4 I ran I played around with a WTM and really liked him in that setup, so that might be a role you look to integrate at some point.
• Big take away is upping your LoE w/these roles.
  • You want to pull the opposition wide for those inside runners (IF, SV, IWB). I like to play low tempo for that style on a positive mentality w/hit crosses early. That allows you to patently pull apart/break down the opposition while you control the game and tire them out.

Anyways, great that you're building your own tactic. Those are just suggestions so take whatever bits are useful for you and don't overly compromise your tactical vision