What would you change in this tactic as a team that is expected to get relegated?

[trueblue9877]

[Johnny Ace]

How come you've gone symmetrical? Two BBMs can be risky with their roaming element 

Can see you're 4th, so looks alright 

 

You have a very similar thread here:

You were given advice then and didn't reply to the thread, I'm afraid any further threads will be closed 

[trueblue9877]

On 26/04/2023 at 11:57, Johnny Ace said:

How come you've gone symmetrical? Two BBMs can be risky with their roaming element 

Can see you're 4th, so looks alright 

 

You have a very similar thread here:

You were given advice then and didn't reply to the thread, I'm afraid any further threads will be closed 

You do know that I did try their advice but I didn't want to end up  leaving a comment every single time, and even then it either didn't work or it would work but at the start of the next season it would immediately stop working I'm talking going from playoff finals to relegation form with the exact same players in the exact same league just because the first season ended...

[Johnny Ace]

4 minutes ago, trueblue9877 said:

You do know that I did try their advice but I didn't want to end up  leaving a comment every single time, and even then it either didn't work or it would work but at the start of the next season it would immediately stop working I'm talking going from playoff finals to relegation form with the exact same players in the exact same league just because the first season ended...

I get you 

But you know, it's an age old FM thing, if you're doing well and punching above your weight, the AI managers start looking at you differently and treating you as a threat so they go less adventurous against you, and vice verca. If you're in bad form and down in the lower reaches of the table, they go at you more

It's your "job" to make the adjustments to combat this, on and off the field  

So, it's all good having your base setup, a version or two for either situation is handy 

[trueblue9877]

51 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

I get you 

But you know, it's an age old FM thing, if you're doing well and punching above your weight, the AI managers start looking at you differently and treating you as a threat so they go less adventurous against you, and vice verca. If you're in bad form and down in the lower reaches of the table, they go at you more

It's your "job" to make the adjustments to combat this, on and off the field  

So, it's all good having your base setup, a version or two for either situation is handy 

I understand what you're saying too because I may have mad one too many threads but what I don't understand is that this same thing has happened at least five times like what I mentioned in the first comment will happen, I'll change some roles around then everything will be fine again then  exact same thing will happen again after a few seasons.

Even if you go to say a 4-4-2/ 4-3-3 flat  it doesn't work from the start rather than working for one season then falling apart, there's nothing I can do.

And also the thing is that even in the second season the squad is stronger than in the first, in the first season the team is predicted to finish 20th (rock bottom) I get them to 6th (3rd in the XG table) and playoff finals, next season.... 18th in December.

Edited April 28, 2023 by trueblue9877
Spelling.

[Johnny Ace]

Just now, trueblue9877 said:

I understand what you're saying too because I may have mad one too many threads but what I don't understand is that this same thing has happened at least five times like what I mentioned in the first comment will happen, I'll change some roles around then everything will be fine again the exact same thing again it's like when will it end?

I bet any actual football manager would tell you, it never ends 

Pep and Klopp have both changed how their team's play multiple times this season, just look through the recreation threads, every manager will do it 

Just keep mixing it up if you have too, give the opposition a hard time rather that becoming a predictable club 

[trueblue9877]

4 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

I bet any actual football manager would tell you, it never ends 

Pep and Klopp have both changed how their team's play multiple times this season, just look through the recreation threads, every manager will do it 

Just keep mixing it up if you have too, give the opposition a hard time rather that becoming a predictable club 

Yes but Pep and Klopp don't have to deal with opposing teams going from 1.2XGA to 2XGA per season with no real tactical changes and despite Liverpool and Man City having a stronger squad than last year.

[Johnny Ace]

1 minute ago, trueblue9877 said:

Yes but Pep and Klopp don't have to deal with opposing teams going from 1.2XGA to 2XGA per season with no real tactical changes and despite Liverpool and Man City having a stronger squad than last year.

Those were just the two higher profile managers I could think of off the top of my head, but I'm pretty sure all managers don't play the same tactic, week in, week out

Like I said, teams will adjust to your success/failure and club reputation changes so the match won't be linear. You've spotted a change, so you have to do something to react to it  

It's also worth noting, opposition managers will also react to your player's form and reputation. For example, if your striker is on a hot run, fully expect them to target him so he doesn't have an easy ride against them, you may to change things up to help him out or use another player to focus your attacks through    

[trueblue9877]

I have tried to react to it but, what happens is that it's not even random, it makes no sense that even when you make a change it stops working at the same point EVERY time, it's not like the changes don't work at all, it will always stop working at the start of the second season, I just told you the different formations used and system changes but the same thing happens every time.

For example if you start a new season the tactic will ALWAYS work in the first season then stop working in the second, seems a bit fishy to me because if other teams readjust I get that but they always wait until the end of the season to do so???

So the tactic still works despite opposition adjustments until we start a new season?

 

[Cloud9]

2 hours ago, trueblue9877 said:

I have tried to react to it but, what happens is that it's not even random, it makes no sense that even when you make a change it stops working at the same point EVERY time, it's not like the changes don't work at all, it will always stop working at the start of the second season, I just told you the different formations used and system changes but the same thing happens every time.

For example if you start a new season the tactic will ALWAYS work in the first season then stop working in the second, seems a bit fishy to me because if other teams readjust I get that but they always wait until the end of the season to do so???

So the tactic still works despite opposition adjustments until we start a new season?

 

Teams will adjust to you this year more so than previous years.

Factors are:

• Reputation (see the pre season prediction)
• Form, if you're doing well they will start to take you more seriously (less all out attacking). This will happen mid season if you're over performing your media prediction. 
• The AI will figure out what tactic you're using as well and begin to adapt to it.

Just watch what's happening in the match engine and make changes like you would do regardless. You're set up really attacking, high tempo and you've only got one tactic loaded. Create two other variations in the slots offered and you'll be able to adapt to the opposition more easily. 

[Johnny Ace]

2 hours ago, trueblue9877 said:

So the tactic still works despite opposition adjustments until we start a new season?

Reputation shifts happen on the season turnover so it makes sense if your rep has shifted

If you recruit well over the summer, you can normally manage season 2 just fine. 

[trueblue9877]

3 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

Reputation shifts happen on the season turnover so it makes sense if your rep has shifted

If you recruit well over the summer, you can normally manage season 2 just fine. 

Late reply but I removed "Higher tempo passing" and "Pass into space" second season seems to be going a lot better as I am 3rd in Mid November and XG table is healthy, finished 5th in the first season and the second season bug seems to have been defeated.

[trueblue9877]

Nevermind, the same thing happened again...

[trueblue9877]

On 28/04/2023 at 18:56, Johnny Ace said:

Reputation shifts happen on the season turnover so it makes sense if your rep has shifted

If you recruit well over the summer, you can normally manage season 2 just fine. 

What would you do in this situation? 

[Johnny Ace]

I'd get rid of the symmetry @trueblue9877, which I've said before, to mix up play a bit

I wouldn't have the top 3 all on Attack, good chance they're trying to shoot as soon as they get the chance and not look to create good chances

I wouldn't have both Wingbacks on Auto, give them a Duty 

I wouldn't have the Higher Tempo, which makes players rush their decisions and leads to lower quality chances being created

I wouldn't Counter Press, I only ever use this as a top team myself 

I wouldn't use the HLOE, without pushing your DL up too, it'll cause a lack of vertical compactness

I wouldn't stay on Balanced all the time, change it up depending on who and how you're playing  

 

 

[trueblue9877]

8 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

I'd get rid of the symmetry @trueblue9877, which I've said before, to mix up play a bit

I wouldn't have the top 3 all on Attack, good chance they're trying to shoot as soon as they get the chance and not look to create good chances

I wouldn't have both Wingbacks on Auto, give them a Duty 

I wouldn't have the Higher Tempo, which makes players rush their decisions and leads to lower quality chances being created

I wouldn't Counter Press, I only ever use this as a top team myself 

I wouldn't use the HLOE, without pushing your DL up too, it'll cause a lack of vertical compactness

I wouldn't stay on Balanced all the time, change it up depending on who and how you're playing  

 

Yes that all makes sense I put the high line of engagement  without a high DL because  it  worked  even though it doesn't  make sense  irl for the reason you said.

 

[trueblue9877]

@Johnny Ace Sorry for pinging but I don't know where to go from here, the first screenshot is with IF(A) the second screenshot is with IF(S) on the flanks, and a similar thing will happen if you put Winger (s) on one side with a FB (S) on that flank along with a IF (S) and a WB (S) on the other flank. with an AF (A)  it just doesn't make any sense.

[Johnny Ace]

From looking that the data then @trueblue9877 stick with what you where doing in the first screenshot and see if the trends continues

I'm sure it won't be as simple as a change of roles as many things will come into play (who you where playing against, form, morale etc) over those games but it's telling you something

If you're conceding a lot though I'd certainly take off Counter Press and Prevent short GK distribution as a starter if you're a relegation favorite. They go against your other TIs too and are more like how a top team would likely play but I've no idea what advice you're taken  

[trueblue9877]

@Johnny Ace Are there any suggestions that you would make for helping to bring down the opposing team's XG that's the main problem, I feel like if it can go down by 0.20 things will be fine.

[trueblue9877]

So I finally  managed to  get the opposing XG down by that 0.20 I put the mentality on Balanced and both CMs as BBM (S) slightly different  from the screenshot.

 

[Johnny Ace]

Good one @trueblue9877 that 4-4-3's looking a lot better