Schmidt's PSV against Galatasaray

[Chris2509]

I got inspired by their 5-1 win and would like to try and implement their style in FM. 

 

I've watched some parts of the match and read this tactical analysis:

https://totalfootballanalysis.com/match-analysis/uefa-champions-league-qualifying-2021-22-psv-galatasaray-tactical-analysis-tactics

And this is what I came up with. 

Not sure about some of the roles. 

 

Positive

Play out of defence 

More direct

Higher Tempo

(pass into space?) 

(fairly narrow?) 

Counter 
Counter Press

Higher D Line
(much) Higher line of engagement
Much more urgent pressing 
Prevent GK short Distribution

Force opposition outside 

 

Would love to hear your insights, especially if you've watched the whole game

Edited July 24, 2021 by Chris2509

[TheGreatest]

I need to look into this deeper to be able to contribute to a replication but I wanted to ask why Gotze as SS? Schmidt is a 4-2-2-2 Red Bull dogmatic who now switched to this 4-2-3-1 to give Gotze a more central position playing to his strengths so I'd thought that it would be more like an AP or Treq role?

[Chris2509]

28 minutes ago, TheGreatest said:

I need to look into this deeper to be able to contribute to a replication but I wanted to ask why Gotze as SS? Schmidt is a 4-2-2-2 Red Bull dogmatic who now switched to this 4-2-3-1 to give Gotze a more central position playing to his strengths so I'd thought that it would be more like an AP or Treq role?

You might be right, I'm not sure about my choice. 

My observation was that he contributed to the team pressing too much to be a Treq. 

He was also consistently moving into channels and looking to score, another trait the sounds more like an SS than an AP.

[Dereka]

As soon as Galatasaray played the ball wide PSV was pressing very aggressively with all ten outfield players on one side of the pitch. To stimulate this in game, maybe add Opposition Instructions to the opponent's wide players to Always Press. There were also one or two Galatasaray midfielders that PSV seemed to target, as soon as they received the ball the press was even more aggressive, which again is something an OI could recreate.

[TheGreatest]

I've read the article from TFA and watched some of the match (full match is on youtube), and thought of this.

You can see Madueke on the right hug the line quite a bit with Mwene standing narrower than him. First I wasn't convinced of making Max this aggressive but he's constantly making crazy runs, even though he rarely ends up in the last line as Wing Backs to in FM when you are camping in the opposition's half but the fact is, that PSV rarely does that anyway since they don't care losing the ball if they get a good press trigger anyway.

The Gotze role I'm quite unsure, you can see him standing right to Zahavi in a more classic 4-2-2-2 shape quite a bit so I thought of shifting him to the RAMC, but on the heat map shown in the TFA article he's mostly operating in the left half space so keeping him in the middle and let him make his decisions himself could be the best replication of that in FM.

I'd start by just using Attacking Mentality for quick transitions and the extremely urgent pressing with High/High lines you can obviously see here, was amazed seeing a Roger Schmidt team in full force again. Then use OIs to press the opponent's FBs and maybe if you want to prepare like that look for victims in their Centre Backs/Midfielders with bad composure, vision, passing to press as well. On attacking one less attacking width and to replicate the very narrow press force opposition outside. Then add TIs depending on the opponent and what you can see in the match engine.

[Chris2509]

24 minutes ago, TheGreatest said:

I've read the article from TFA and watched some of the match (full match is on youtube), and thought of this.

You can see Madueke on the right hug the line quite a bit with Mwene standing narrower than him. First I wasn't convinced of making Max this aggressive but he's constantly making crazy runs, even though he rarely ends up in the last line as Wing Backs to in FM when you are camping in the opposition's half but the fact is, that PSV rarely does that anyway since they don't care losing the ball if they get a good press trigger anyway.

The Gotze role I'm quite unsure, you can see him standing right to Zahavi in a more classic 4-2-2-2 shape quite a bit so I thought of shifting him to the RAMC, but on the heat map shown in the TFA article he's mostly operating in the left half space so keeping him in the middle and let him make his decisions himself could be the best replication of that in FM.

I'd start by just using Attacking Mentality for quick transitions and the extremely urgent pressing with High/High lines you can obviously see here, was amazed seeing a Roger Schmidt team in full force again. Then use OIs to press the opponent's FBs and maybe if you want to prepare like that look for victims in their Centre Backs/Midfielders with bad composure, vision, passing to press as well. On attacking one less attacking width and to replicate the very narrow press force opposition outside. Then add TIs depending on the opponent and what you can see in the match engine.

Fantastic, love it. Thank you! 

[lfds89]

Just by looking into one game, I would say it's not easy to separate what's the model and what's the strategy... Still, I would say @TheGreatest reply is a good starting point. Let me just add:

Van Ginkel (MCR) as DLP-S so he doesn't fall behind the other CM;

Gotze as T-A as is role is primarily a creator. Regarding his position, you could probably have more than one tactic, one with him on the right (RST or RCAM) maybe on another role, then one on the left as T-A.

Intrigued about the wingers. Sometimes seems both are narrow, sometimes it seems the RW is closer to the line (it makes sense, since Gala has one player wide, so having W and FB very wide would create a 2v1 on the wing, or push one of the central midfielders outside and open up space inside). I would say to instruct the LW to play narrow if you have Gotze as LCAM/LST on T-A.

On the defensive side, seems quite strategic regarding Galatasaray's lack of width. To recreate on FM, my ideas are:

- Opposition FBs with no tight marking but close down

- Opposition CMs with tight marking and close down

- Starting on Positive/Attacking, LOE set to standard or even lower so they let the CBs have time on the ball and pass to FBs (here is the part you can't replicate on FM... because the trap means they don't press the CBs when they get the ball from the GK, but they press when it's a backwards pass)

However, if they were playing against a traditional 4-3-3, for instance, the opposition wingers would pin the FB not letting them press the opposition FB.

[TheGreatest]

32 minutes ago, lfds89 said:

Just by looking into one game, I would say it's not easy to separate what's the model and what's the strategy... Still, I would say @TheGreatest reply is a good starting point. Let me just add:

Van Ginkel (MCR) as DLP-S so he doesn't fall behind the other CM;

Gotze as T-A as is role is primarily a creator. Regarding his position, you could probably have more than one tactic, one with him on the right (RST or RCAM) maybe on another role, then one on the left as T-A.

Intrigued about the wingers. Sometimes seems both are narrow, sometimes it seems the RW is closer to the line (it makes sense, since Gala has one player wide, so having W and FB very wide would create a 2v1 on the wing, or push one of the central midfielders outside and open up space inside). I would say to instruct the LW to play narrow if you have Gotze as LCAM/LST on T-A.

On the defensive side, seems quite strategic regarding Galatasaray's lack of width. To recreate on FM, my ideas are:

- Opposition FBs with no tight marking but close down

- Opposition CMs with tight marking and close down

- Starting on Positive/Attacking, LOE set to standard or even lower so they let the CBs have time on the ball and pass to FBs (here is the part you can't replicate on FM... because the trap means they don't press the CBs when they get the ball from the GK, but they press when it's a backwards pass)

However, if they were playing against a traditional 4-3-3, for instance, the opposition wingers would pin the FB not letting them press the opposition FB.

No offense and you are right on a lot of things, but I believe you try to be too detailed here, which won't translate into the engine of the game. I just played a game telling them to not press and tackle the CBs and tackle hard and press hard the FBs, what that does is that your Winger on that site will go hard at that guy (good) but it won't replicate the real life behavior, where everybody is drilled the entire week to go press as a unit whenever these triggers occur. What I didn't think about as much though is, that you can maybe play with the LOE during the game, like teams to in rl as well, press very high for 10 minutes, then put it to standard again etc., e.g. the 2:0 comes from them standing in 4-2-2-2 relatively passive only slowly running at their CB with the ball and then going hard on the midfielder after the pass.

The right side roles I have to agree, you can see Madueke going inside as well, in FM if you have a left foot like Madueke I'd guess he cuts in as a Winger naturally as well, I just don't like a combo like W(A) and WB(S) for example.

Van Ginkel imo should definitely be on D unless you play some Eredivisie team in a 4-1-4-1 on Defensive mentality.

Here you can see him drop very deep, as this attack progresses he stays this deep and even covers for Ramalho when he goes for a tackle about 10 seconds later. In FM terms it'll help to get stability as well.

As I said in the first post from my feeling I'd go for a Treq as well, but I guessed that Gotze in the game will have very bad attributes like work rate etc. and if you put in a lazy player into the Treq he won't do what he does here in rl. If you use a player who's willing to work there but able to provide creativity it could be the best role for him.

[Chris2509]

Another very exciting win for PSV yesterday. 

If anyone here watched that game as well, I'd love to hear your FM insights! 

Edited August 4, 2021 by Chris2509

[3maldini3]

Zahavi is too good