[Discussion] The 'darker side' of football: diving, shirt tugging, pushing, confrontations

[UKFA]

This topic will be controversial, so it requires some discussion, maybe a poll, to gauge what people think. But how would you feel about including some of the less pleasant aspects of football? This example isn't relevant because you don't see players in enough detail, but when you watch real games you'll see at least a couple of instances of players spitting on the ground. Understandably this isn't the kind of thing they use in FIFA preset cutscenes however. Other things like purposeful diving are obviously excluded. How would you feel about an option to allow this kind of stuff (maybe limited to steam buyers over 18). Obviously there's a limit to it, I would personally say there should never be fights, pitch invasions, fans fighting, racism, objects being thrown etc. But some of the more inconsequential things like players separating others, going to the referee to argue, maybe if you use too many aggressive shouts your manager figure is seen gesturing at officials, they could all add to a tense atmosphere and the inter personal relationships of players in the game, possible even team and fan rivalries becoming more dynamic and influenced by high importance games.

Anyway no offense intended, I'd just like to hear people's thoughts, especially from SI.

[begi25]

Hi guys.

I just wanted to offer a small user feedback: as a long-time FM admirer, football fan, football emulations fan and dreamer of "what's the next year bringing in the world of FM" (started with Championship Manager 99-00), I would like to offer my criticism, praise and advice for the next year's installment.

FM has come far in terms of improvements and realism in recent years, I feel huge amount of work was put into developing a fun-n-yet broad and realistic simulations of what it takes to be a manager, with huge improvements being seen in recent installments when it comes to managing players, easier analysis of development of young and talented players, fun media handling and realistic simulations of results based on numerous variables (e.g. player skills, coaching staff background, etc.).

However, FM21 came as a disappointment - not a lot was improved and added compared to FM20 that wasn't possible to do in a couple of patches, with most underwhelming changes in the actual match AI. As a fan of realistic emulations of sports in video games, I feel FM22 AI in football matches should be the main point of improvement, not in terms of graphics as much as actual play-to-player interactions, player skills (such as crossovers, defensive actions, realistic speed of players and game, diving and yellow cards for it, etc.) and diversity of goal scoring (as well as goalkeeper saves). I believe FIFA Manager games can be used as an lucrative template for next-gen FM games - if not in actual games simulation (FULL 3D high graphics), then in AI movements of players and diversity of scored goals.

I may be a bit old-fashioned, but I feel going backwards in time when it comes to TRAININGS would be an amazing step - having the possibility of designing individual trainings like in Championship Manager 2001-2002 and having possibility to delve deeper into actual exercises would give not only a huge homage to previous installments, but more realisticly represent the complexity of trainings and their impact on development of players. The training system of FM21 is admirable, but adding that extra dimension for hardcore players and fans of the games would be a great improvement, especially with a lot of trainings being available to the public (through documentaries, youtube videos of individual clubs, etc.).

Another area of lacking improvement is the MATCH TACTICS AND SET-PIECE TACTICS. Not much was done in this area since FM20, and I see very simple yet progressive additions that would allow for a more diverse and realistic representation of actual matches. Having the possibility to add more individual players tips (similar to FM17 and FM18), tactical advices (e.g. adding exact movements of players during pressing systems) and having the possibility to design individual tactical plays (e.g. the movement of French attackers Giroud and Griezmann in the World Cup 2018, where Giroud was coming in deep, pulling 2 defenders and opening space for Griezmann to enter those spaces behind the defenders for a long-ball) and set-piece plays (with a possibility to design ball movement in real-time, player movement on the pitch in defensive stages, similar to FIFA MANAGER games in the past) would be a true and admirable improvement of FM emulations, and will undoubtedly be greeted by true hardcore FM fans with open arms.

When it comes to managerial styles, data analysis, development of young players, scouting, contract negotiations, I feel you've been doing tremendous work and little can be added there that would substantially improve the game, so little changes in that area would achieve more than less.

That's more or less all I wanted to say. I believe FM is at the forefront of realistic football emulations, but the lack of changes in FM21 is raising a question of true motivations and goals You wish to achieve, as well as whether or not You have what it takes to challenge Your players and fans, and take them out of the comfort zone.
I believe time has come for FM to challenge Yourselves to achieving grandeur and take the pedestal of the best footballing video game in the world. I don't see what You can lose with implementing (or even turning back time with the addition of previous training systems to the existing one), but I see all You can receive with it $$.

Thanks for the good work and hope my advices can see the light of day in FM22.

K

[seabas3]

On 08/04/2021 at 18:14, UKFA said:

This topic will be controversial, so it requires some discussion, maybe a poll, to gauge what people think. But how would you feel about including some of the less pleasant aspects of football? This example isn't relevant because you don't see players in enough detail, but when you watch real games you'll see at least a couple of instances of players spitting on the ground. Understandably this isn't the kind of thing they use in FIFA preset cutscenes however. Other things like purposeful diving are obviously excluded. How would you feel about an option to allow this kind of stuff (maybe limited to steam buyers over 18). Obviously there's a limit to it, I would personally say there should never be fights, pitch invasions, fans fighting, racism, objects being thrown etc. But some of the more inconsequential things like players separating others, going to the referee to argue, maybe if you use too many aggressive shouts your manager figure is seen gesturing at officials, they could all add to a tense atmosphere and the inter personal relationships of players in the game, possible even team and fan rivalries becoming more dynamic and influenced by high importance games.

Anyway no offense intended, I'd just like to hear people's thoughts, especially from SI.

Hey, excellent post! I've personally thought about this too - unfortunately with stuff like this there is the issue of legal actions taking place, similar to how there are no real negative traits with real life players but only with newgens or players coming out as gay in FM. I think one target FM could explore is what you've mentioned with your players arguing either with the ref or with each other and your disposition towards the referee and other managers could be further explored by SI. The rivalry portion you mentioned I also feel could be improved further by SI to make it more tense in some instances and definitely your actions and responses could greatly influence that upcoming match. 

For legal reasons I wouldn't see traits or negative playmaking ideas such as "going down easily" being implemented into the game. However I would like to see SI add that as a point of conversation in your interviews with the media. Especially after a match. There are already some highlights of it with the text commentary where it says that "it seems a bit soft" and other quotes which give that indication for a foul - and expanding on that in the media could add an extra spice to rivalries and your persona as a manager. Arguing with the referee I would like to see better presented by FM. There is already some form of "swarming" and such when a VAR decision is being talked about but I don't feel it doesn't show nearly as much 'emotion' compared to IRL and the complaining by both parties AND the bench.

As for fighting, I don't think that will happen - but when there is a high-fouling match or plenty of cards, I want there to be some "coming-togethers" with the players on the pitch. Similar to the VAR swarming which happens already, maybe after a couple fouls committed by one player and then another challenge happens, two or three nearby teammates will run to the referee and complain for a card. Or after a bad tackle which gets a yellow or red, maybe a quick revenge tackle which leads to a small flash point of arguing. This isn't a fight nor should it lead to a full on brawl - but FM to me currently lacks that edge or fight which in my opinion should be brought in. 

[Luke Hume]

Thanks for taking the time to raise this here. Whilst this could be hard to introduce into the game for a number of reasons including licences and legal, this has been documented and is part of our internal database of features for consideration. Like all features raised to us, it could end up rejected, or could after extensive design and development become a part of a future FM.

Cheers.