Schalke counter attack tactic advice

[Matty99]

I've started a career with Schalke & long term i want to play a possession based tactic but after reading my squad reports & looking through the squad, for the time being it looks like they are more suited to counter attacking football. I've made a tactic based on the fluid counter preset but was just looking for advice on team instructions & roles really & also what changes i can make to the tactic to make it more of a possession tactic once i have players i feel capable of playing in that style. P.S Merry Christmas!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Experienced Defender]

3 hours ago, Matty99 said:

 

3 hours ago, Matty99 said:

after reading my squad reports & looking through the squad, for the time being it looks like they are more suited to counter attacking football. I've made a tactic based on the fluid counter preset

Sorry, but nothing in this tactic suggests it's a counter-attacking tactic (except for the Counter TI in transition, but this instruction can be used in different styles of football, including even possession-based ones). Neither is it fluid btw.

Also, the 4231 is not an ideal formation for counter-attacking football in general. It's not to say that you cannot create a counter-oriented style using this system, but it will be considerably more tricky to do than with a more balanced formation. 4123 (a.k.a. 4141dm wide) is a lot easier to make into a counter tactic. Or in case you insist on a 4231, then the deep version (with 2 DMs instead of CMs) is a more logical choice than standard 4231.

But let's assume you have the right type of players that can put counter-attacking football into effect playing in this standard 4231 from your screenshot. What changes/tweaks I would suggest?

First, the roles and duties. I'll give you an example of one possible setup that is both counter-attacking and fluid:

TQ

IWsu           SS            Wsu

DLPsu   BBM

(C)WBsu  CDde  BPDde   IWBde

SKsu

In a more balanced formation like 4123, roles could be more adventurous, but in the 4231 that would be too risky.

Now, what are instructions that would suit a fluid counter-style based on this particular setup?

The Balanced mentality is a good choice IMHO 

What about the rest? Well, maybe something along these lines could work:

- shorter passing, (slightly) higher tempo, run at defence, be more expressive, work ball into box (play out of defence can be used occasionally, but not necessarily as part of the primary/basic tactic)

- counter (and possibly counter-press, which is used in the fluid counter preset, but it's something you always need to be very careful with)

- standard DL, lower LOE (and possibly get stuck in)

And remember - in order for the 4231 as a formation to work properly (regardless of your preferred style of football), you need to make sure that your (both) CMs are good enough when it comes to defending (along with being able to support forwards in the possession phase). 

 

[Matty99]

44 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

 

Sorry, but nothing in this tactic suggests it's a counter-attacking tactic (except for the Counter TI in transition, but this instruction can be used in different styles of football, including even possession-based ones). Neither is it fluid btw.

Also, the 4231 is not an ideal formation for counter-attacking football in general. It's not to say that you cannot create a counter-oriented style using this system, but it will be considerably more tricky to do than with a more balanced formation. 4123 (a.k.a. 4141dm wide) is a lot easier to make into a counter tactic. Or in case you insist on a 4231, then the deep version (with 2 DMs instead of CMs) is a more logical choice than standard 4231.

But let's assume you have the right type of players that can put counter-attacking football into effect playing in this standard 4231 from your screenshot. What changes/tweaks I would suggest?

First, the roles and duties. I'll give you an example of one possible setup that is both counter-attacking and fluid:

TQ

IWsu           SS            Wsu

DLPsu   BBM

(C)WBsu  CDde  BPDde   IWBde

SKsu

In a more balanced formation like 4123, roles could be more adventurous, but in the 4231 that would be too risky.

Now, what are instructions that would suit a fluid counter-style based on this particular setup?

The Balanced mentality is a good choice IMHO 

What about the rest? Well, maybe something along these lines could work:

- shorter passing, (slightly) higher tempo, run at defence, be more expressive, work ball into box (play out of defence can be used occasionally, but not necessarily as part of the primary/basic tactic)

- counter (and possibly counter-press, which is used in the fluid counter preset, but it's something you always need to be very careful with)

- standard DL, lower LOE (and possibly get stuck in)

And remember - in order for the 4231 as a formation to work properly (regardless of your preferred style of football), you need to make sure that your (both) CMs are good enough when it comes to defending (along with being able to support forwards in the possession phase). 

 

Thanks for the reply, i've just noticed that i've uploaded the wrong screenshot lol , that one was from a fm19 save i had, this is the actual tactic i meant to post, sorry about the confusion!

[Experienced Defender]

20 hours ago, Matty99 said:

 

20 hours ago, Matty99 said:

i've just noticed that i've uploaded the wrong screenshot lol , that one was from a fm19 save i had, this is the actual tactic i meant to post, sorry about the confusion!

Okay, this one looks more counter-attacking, although a couple of tweaks may still be needed to make it a bit more solid overall. 

[Matty99]

2 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

 

Okay, this one looks more counter-attacking, although a couple of tweaks may still be needed to make it a bit more solid overall. 

If you wouldn't mind sharing, what things should i be changing? and what roles using the same 4-1-4-1 formation would suit a more possession style of play? thanks again for the reply.

[Experienced Defender]

8 minutes ago, Matty99 said:

If you wouldn't mind sharing, what things should i be changing?

Depends on whether you still want a more fluid counter-attacking style or perhaps a more simple and direct one. The fluid is (a bit) more risky and hence requires better players, so you first need to make sure if that's really what you want. 

 

12 minutes ago, Matty99 said:

and what roles using the same 4-1-4-1 formation would suit a more possession style of play?

Again depends on whether you want a patient ("boring") possession style (akin to tiki-taka, but without tactical overkill) or a more progressive one (combining elements of possession football with more adventurous styles)?

[Matty99]

9 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Depends on whether you still want a more fluid counter-attacking style or perhaps a more simple and direct one. The fluid is (a bit) more risky and hence requires better players, so you first need to make sure if that's really what you want. 

 

Again depends on whether you want a patient ("boring") possession style (akin to tiki-taka, but without tactical overkill) or a more progressive one (combining elements of possession football with more adventurous styles)?

My players aren't the best passers but are very aggressive so would probably suit the more simple counter attack style & ideally a progressive possession style really.

[Experienced Defender]

31 minutes ago, Matty99 said:

My players aren't the best passers but are very aggressive so would probably suit the more simple counter attack style

Okay, in that case something like this could be a good starting point for you:

PFat

IFsu                            Wsu

BWMsu   APat

A/DMde

FBat   BPDde  CDde   FBsu

SKsu/de

The bolded are the roles and/or duties that I've changed compared to your setup. Of course, this is not the only possible setup, but I looked to make as few changes as possible to your setup (because these new roles basically require very similar types of players as the previous ones).

When it comes to mentality, I would also go with the Balanced (at least initially, until you get more familiar with your team and their strengths and weaknesses) 

In terms of instructions, I would only change your passing from shorter into standard (default) and add higher tempo instead of pass into space. The rest looks okay.

So that would be "my" basic counter-attacking tactic (allowing for the possibility of small occasional tweaks when needed). 

 

31 minutes ago, Matty99 said:

ideally a progressive possession style

Based on the counter-attacking setup, the progressive possession one could look like this:

DLFat

IWsu                             IFat

DLPsu  BBM/MEZsu

DMde

FBat   CDde  BPDde  FBsu

SKsu/de

I would again start with the Balanced mentality for "safety" reasons, with the option of being switched to Positive (depending on the situation).

Instructions:

- play out of defence, shorter passing, be more expressive (optional/occasional instruction: work ball into box)

- nothing (optional/occasional instruction: counter)

- higher DL, higher LOE and offside trap or higher DL, standard LOE (with 3-4 players applying the split block) and offside trap

Now you can ask me whatever quesions you may have 

 

Edited December 26, 2019 by Experienced Defender