tuffers007 Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 . just thinking out loud. is there any way of incorporating the best bits from different tactics and putting them in one tactic. ie using the settings of the right str from "il devasto", the wing play from "death slayer", the defensive set up from the "better half tactics", the central midfield from "emulate man utd 2011" etc.i understand that different individual setting may cause some confusion on the pitch but with a little tinkering do you think it would be possible? any feedback on this topic good or bad would be greatly appreciated thanks tuffers007 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
furiousuk Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 It's possible but not as easy as it may well be in future editions. You'd have to download each tactic, write down the slider positions (if they are different from TC defaults) on a bit of paper (ah, trusty paper & pencil, never be without it, reminds you you're only a short jump from swinging in the trees) and then create your own tactic and enter the slider positions that you've written down. The whole result would be an unmitigated mess and will almost certainly result in abject failure (there is a small chance the players will choose to completely ignore you and do their own thing, in which case you might be alright). It would certainly be an interesting venture of having downloadable settings for each role & duty. It something that SFraser mooted in one of his threads. However, there would have to be a way of making it easier to change a whole range of sliders all at once to gain some compatability between role ideas. If your idea of a high mentality is 3 clicks different to mine then our idea of roles will not be compatable, at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuffers007 Posted September 8, 2011 Author Share Posted September 8, 2011 i appreciate the response. however would it be more of the team settings that would need tinkering with more than individual ones? reason i say this is i know football is a religion but this is just a computer game so in theory it should be possible? as the game or game engine will not know that i have used multiple tactics? forgive me if that sounds ridiculous as i am really **** at this game and dont really understand how its supposed to work again thank you for your response tuffers007 just to add, i have done all the hard work of mixing tactics and implemented them into my game. have only played 4 friendlies with it and seem to be going well but only time will tell.i would love for you to test it and do your own tweaks. there are two variants with the only difference being the setting between the amc and fwd. however i have no idea how to upload the tactic for you to try. if you could help me with that it would be great for your help and advice. the defence and gk are from "xenon 41221 barcelona v3" the 2 central mids are from "secure deep 4231 from the tbh" the 2 wingers are from "raikens deathslayer tactic v1" the amc is the left side striker settings from "il devasto" the lone fwd is from "special onetoptweak" now the fun starts trying to get them all to blend together!! HELP :confused: cheers again tuffers007 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
furiousuk Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 No, no, it's definitely possible. The game engine, of course, won't care that you've copied instructions from lots of different places. What it will care about is that those set of instructions are likely to be disjointed. If all of the individual sliders have been altered then only some of the team instructions will matter anyway, a ticked instruction always overrides anything else. I like this idea but just don't see how it works. For example, suppose I want 2 wingers to be mainly aggressive inside forwards but I want 1 to be slightly more creative & expressive than the other, so, I download X's definition of an inside forward and I download Y's definition of a slightly more creative inside forward. The problem is that X believes a mentality of 19 is very aggressive whereas Y thinks that 16 is aggressive so I have a lop-sided attack. If I now download Z's idea of a creative striker to go with these 2 and he thinks a withdrawn mentality is 16 I have a situation where my 16 mentality FC withdraws from 1 winger as expected but doesn't from the other. I know I've over simplified things but hope I've made it clear that the problem is that any 2 users of these forums may have a different definition of what constitutes a long passing range or what constitued aggressive closing down or how much creative freedom is alot etc. I'd seriously encourage you to make your own tactics based on your own football knowledge and your own view of your FM squad. Watch the games to see what works and what doesn't and take it from there. If you download someone elses tactic it might work, which is fine, but as your in-game circumstances change it might well stop working and you'll have no clue what to do as you don't understand the tactic and you don't understand why some settings as they are. If YOUR tactic stops working then you'll at least know why you made certain decisions in the first place so you will (hopefully) have a clue as to how to fix/improve/change things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuffers007 Posted September 8, 2011 Author Share Posted September 8, 2011 i see your point but isnt that where your team instructions come into play? have been inspired by reports of other tactics that promise your fwds will score bucket loads( which is who i believe should score your goals ) il devasto was a complete work of art in my opinion along with special onetop from fm2010. but whenever i try to create my own tactic i just cant get it right. i will continue with the above idea for a season and see how it goes. i shall keep you posted if your interested? or you can have a tinker yourself? i have done the hard/boring bit just need help to upload it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
furiousuk Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Keep posting yes, whenever you spot something someone here will be able to help, the depth of knowledge of people here is amazing. The thing is that tactics are far more reactive now when compared to previous FM's which means that one super tactic doesn't generally work any more, as, I suspect, you realise. This leaves you exploiting an ME hole (i.e. the corner trick which is still pretty evident but easily avoided, I'm not if any others really exist) or playing by tweaking your tactics, they don't have to be big tweaks but just realistic & logical alterations to heighten strengths & minimise weaknesses. The only other solution is to use a lot of CF and pick fairly neutral instructions, if you were extremely good at man management this would probably work. Presently the TC chooses a set of presets when you choose team instructions (the same for choosing roles & duties). Therefore, for example, defensive mentality is 5 clicks and attacking mentality is 15, this is +/- 5 from neutral but is a constant. If my team were an excellent, attacking team then I might consider a neutral mentality is actually 12 clicks, not 10, therefore I would like attacking to be 17 and defensive to be 7, however, as the TC is at the moment it is stuck at 5 & 15 so even if a team instruction over-writes a ticked instruction (it doesn't) you'd still be stuck with 5 & 15. I'd like to be able to set up a custom mentality structure and then alter it using a strategy change and I want to be able to choose how much it altered (i.e. +/- x clicks). The only team instructions that can't be set in the tickable player instructions are depth, width, tempo, time wasting, focus passing, counter attack & offside trap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuffers007 Posted September 8, 2011 Author Share Posted September 8, 2011 well you are right, 2nd league game and just got spanked by swansea 5-0 i was 4-0 down after 20mins!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
furiousuk Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Ah, well, I take no pleasure in it. What's your footballing vision? How do you want to play? You clearly have a vision as you've pulled what you think are the ideal settings from the tactics you've downloaded so no-one can fault your effort. Think about it logically and use the TC as that will create a balanced tactic for you. It sounds like you're playing a 4411 or a 4231, so think how you want each player to play? Also think about their interactions? You might say I want an up-top striker, I'd like a real attacking goal-threat in at AMC and I want 2 inside forwards to bomb towards goal from the wings - this is all well and good but that is your 4 primary attack players all firmly decided on sticking the ball in the net, who is supplying them? Maybe I'm going to keep the striker & wingers but I'll use a more creative role for the AMC. So, you go to the TC, choose poacher or advanced forward for the ST, inside forwards at AMR/L and I'm not sure for AMC so I'll go Advanced Playmaker-support. The first 3 games go alright but my ST is to playing too high up the pitch and getting isolated, plus he's too greedy so I'll change his role to deep-lying forward-support and watch some games again. Just think through how you want to do things and use the TC to implement them. It'll probably go alright and then you can start to work out why each setting is set as it is - from there you can really get into the meat of it and create what you want to see. You can't do any of this by downloading someone elses tactic. You bought the game, you must be passionate about it, so go be passionate about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuffers007 Posted September 8, 2011 Author Share Posted September 8, 2011 well i normally play old fashioned 442 as its what im used to. however i play the classic style of tactics as i find it more enjoyable. i am normally successful regarding keeping possession i just can never get my fwds to score! its either my wingers or center mids which i find very frustrating. i dont mind which fwd scores the goals as long one of them does!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i have read countless tactical guides and taken alot of advice from a number of forums but i just cant do it! i put this down to a lack of knowledge about not only tactics in general but how the game itself works you mention above about fwd being isolated up front but how do i combat that? how do i link midfield with fwds so that my fwds get plenty of opportunites ( CCCs ) how do i get mt midfield to help out with defence so i dont concede as many? im starting to fall out of love with this game which is a shame since i have followed this series from day 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
furiousuk Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 For me, the answer to these problems lie in mentality structure. If you sort out your mentality structure then the 'holes' you're describing will disappear. These mentality structures are described in the TT&F (if they aren't in the latest version TT&F10 then try and find a copy of TT&F9 as 09 deals with classic tactics, you should find a link somewhere in the sticky at the top of this forum). Just as important, infact, probably more important, are your players. If you're playing a 442 have you got a defence-minded midfielder (MCd) and an attack-minded chap (MCa)? 2 box-to-box types can work of course but you have to careful that they both don't bomb forward and leave your defence in need of a paddle or they both might hang back leaving the attackers a little light. An MCd (maybe central midfielder-defend) and an MCa (advanced playmaker-support maybe) normally work well together. Similarly, up-front, what are you trying to go for? 2 combos that work quite well are big man (targetman-support) & small man (adv.forward-attack) or creative man (deep-lying forward-support/complete forward-support) & finisher (poacher or adv.forward -attack). These are all TC defaults so you'd have to create your own versions using the classic style which is potentially dangerous but gives you much more scope for shaping things how you want (unless you use the TC as a starting point and tweak from there ) Some mentality structures that I can remember off the top of my head (these are based on a neutral mentality of 10): Rule of One: GK 7 FB 9 CB 8 MCd 10 MCa 11 ML/R 12 FCd 13 FCa 14 Rule of Two/Bands of Two GK 6 FB 8 CB 6 MCd 10 MCa 12 MR/L 14 FCd 12 FCa 14 Balanced/Role Theory GK 7 FB 10 CB 7 MCd 7 MCa 10 MR/L 13 FCd 10 FCa 13/14 Fluid 10's for everybody!!! I may have got some of these wrong but you can see how the mentalities in each system follow a logical pattern. This logical pattern is then repeated for passing, closing down, CF etc. My personal favourite is the Balanced/Role Theory as I feel this creates a nice balance between defence & attack and, with my preference for loads of CF, can produce some scintillating stuff and has the added bonus that its easy to understand that players are grouped into either defensive, supporting or attacking roles (not this naming has changed to duties for FM11). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuffers007 Posted September 8, 2011 Author Share Posted September 8, 2011 that looks very complicated!! how do i input those numbers into the game? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
furiousuk Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Theres a skin to show the numbers or you place the slider to the far left and count (!) so many clicks to the right. If you're out by a click or so it probably won't make a whole heap of difference but it's best to be neat and tidy with it all. Classic tactics are pretty complicated! If you use the TC this is all done for you, you can always tinker with the sliders once youve let the TC do all the leg work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuffers007 Posted September 8, 2011 Author Share Posted September 8, 2011 i shall attempt a 442 tc style. what would you recommend foe team mentalities? passing, closing down, etc? also how would you get your fwd to score loads of goals? i.e similar to the amount scored using the il devasto tactic. i seriously cant do this on my own. i will go crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! just to add is it possible to create a tactic that plays as well and scores loads on fm11 11.3 like the old special onetop tactic from fm10 amongst others Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
furiousuk Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 i shall attempt a 442 tc style. what would you recommend foe team mentalities? passing, closing down, etc? also how would you get your fwd to score loads of goals? i.e similar to the amount scored using the il devasto tactic. i seriously cant do this on my own. i will go crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What you choose should depend on your team. A good basic setup is to leave most team settings on neutral/default, use balanced and then set up your team like this: DR/L - FB / support DC - Central Def / Defend MCd - Central Mid / Defend MCa - Advanced Playmaker / Support MR/L - Wingers / Attack FCd - Deep-lying forward / support FCa - Advanced Forward / Attack Once you see how your team is performing then you can try changing things from there. Try using the shouts as well. As for getting your scorers to score, get yourself a decent striker to begin with!! I don't know anything about il devasto or how it works so I can't say if playing the game reactively will be as successful but I know you'll learn a lot more about the game and about football by using your own tactics rather than someone elses. is it possible to create a tactic that plays as well and scores loads on fm11 11.3 like the old special onetop tactic from fm10 amongst others I'm not sure that it is as the ME 'rewards' players who play reactively. The differences between formations, tactics & different players seem to be more pronounced in this FM (more towards real-life) so it makes sense to use those differences to your advantage. One setup can't cater for every scenario you'll face so you need to be reactive and alter your tactic and your team selection to match the situation, these don't have to be major changes, just small steps to give your team the edge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuffers007 Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 thank you very much!! i shall implement this right now and let you know how it goes. have done a standard 442 with the settings you suggested. i have not changed any settings team or individual so its balanced and standard with everything else default. 1st game v stoke (h) won 1-0 macheda scoring ( 10 shots- 6 on trgt ) shots 24 (11 on trgt) long range shots 10 only 1 ccc possesion 65% pass completion 87% i am happy with the result obviously along with possession and pass completion. however game play was very slow and prob more negative ( 2 passes fwd 1 pass back etc ) how can i improve on this by increasing the ccc opportunities, reducing long shots but without compromising possession and pass completion? also i would like the game to flow a bit more freely making it more exciting to watch? is it possible to do this just by altering team instructions as i dont feel confident or capable of changing individual settings just yet!!!!! i really appreciate your help. thank you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
furiousuk Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 No worries. If gameplay was too slow for you then consider changing the strategy as a strategy change will alter the tempo. You can manually see and alter the tempo if you click the 'advanced' button on the team instructions screen, it's pretty useful having a look at the sliders (particularly as you are used to them) when you make changes in the TC just to confirm that the sliders are changing roughly how you would expect. A control strategy or attacking strategy raises tempo and also raises mentality which generally encourages players to try higher risk/reward passes. To reduce long shots use the shout 'work ball into box'. This should also increase your possession as you waste the ball less with the obvious trade off that you're less likely to score from range and have effectively removed 1 weapon from your arsenal (at the expense of hopefully sharpening another). Anything from near the edge of the area is classed as a long shot in the game so 10 out of 24 isn't too bad. I think long shots should be counted as further out. If you load your tactic into match prep you can see how fluid your team are with it. Fluidity will increase the flow of the game and eliminate some glaring errors, as will how gelled your team is. Players who are used to playing with each other are less likely to make those silly errors you see like a bad backpass or passing into the back of a player. Increased Creative Freedom and Roam From Position instructions can often make the game more exciting but you run the risk of being slightly less organised and possibly less 'solid'. I love having loads of these 2 instructions and have always had a rock-solid defence and a very stable and gritty team but I know the people's experience and opinion differs on this. As for increasing CCC's, well, that's a tougher nut to crack. There are lots of ways and every manager will have a different method of enabling their team to create and finish chances. For now I'd say don't get hung up on CCC's, the game doesn't record them particularly effectively and sometimes the statistics can be very misleading. If you see your players routinely get into positions to get the ball in the net then you're creating enough chances, even if the stats say otherwise. Good luck with it all! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuffers007 Posted September 10, 2011 Author Share Posted September 10, 2011 one last thing before i leave you in peace! can you please explain to me what the individual settings mean. some of it is just common sense ( tackling,marking etc ) but run from deep i have no idea how that transfers to game play. regards tuffers007 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
furiousuk Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 I hate to publicise my own thread but this thread here pretty much sums up my views on most of the sliders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
heathxxx Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Personally, I'm of the opinion that any tactic is only as "super" as the players available. As in, the suitability of the players to do what's required of them, within the tactical framework. The current 4-2-3-1 system I'm using, created easily with TC settings, might be considered by some as somewhat of a "super" tactic, if they were to watch PKM's of my team in action. But then, I've assembled a squad of players who suits the system I play, pretty much to perfection. Sometimes I think people take the more difficult route of trying to pick holes in the ME, trying to fine tune slider settings in the most minute ways, when it's entirely possible to achieve the same sort of "super" effects with pretty standard TC settings and some sensible squad planning. It's for this reason, that browsing through threads in the downloads section, what's "super" for one person (who happens to have the right players), isn't particularly effective for another person. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Odom Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Personally, I'm of the opinion that any tactic is only as "super" as the players available. As in, the suitability of the players to do what's required of them, within the tactical framework. Couldn't agree more. I truly doubt that you can make a system out of the best parts of other tactics. Since the weakness of one tactic is the strength of the other, they will never be "compatible". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsupian Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 I'd just want to quickly add that when you take the best parts of different tactics and put them together you make a critical error. You assume that the defense of a tactic is good regardless of the rest of the tactical instructions and that the great striker partnership of another tactic works regardless of how the other players are set up. That tactic with the awesome defense might very well be that good because the players around the defense are set up in such a way that they aid the defense and play well together. If you add the fullbacks from another tactic that perform very will in that tactic (get a lot of assists etc) your defense might suffer. You always have to look at a tactic as a whole as every player influences players around him. This is also very important when deciding who you play together, certain players work well together and complement eachothers playstyle. Knowing how your players behave and what their strenghts and weaknesses are is crucial when deciding who to start (also adapt to your opponent when necessary). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Odom Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Spot on Marsupian, that's what i was trying to say in my limited English. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuffers007 Posted September 11, 2011 Author Share Posted September 11, 2011 thanks to you all for the responses. you have all helped me in my quest for tactical knowledge and inspired me to try again but with more gusto than before!! super tactic, what was i thinking!!!! bloody idiot!!!!! thanks again tuffers007 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsupian Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 thanks to you all for the responses. you have all helped me in my quest for tactical knowledge and inspired me to try again but with more gusto than before!!super tactic, what was i thinking!!!! bloody idiot!!!!! thanks again tuffers007 Glad we could help Good luck with your tactic! btw. It wasn't that bad of an idea and looking at other tactics for things that work is always a good thing. Looking at only one or two players at a time is just a bit too simple. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuffers007 Posted September 11, 2011 Author Share Posted September 11, 2011 as im only learning would it be possible to upload my tactic for you to check and see what its like? as extra input is never a bad thing!! im hoping it can further my education with someone else point of view. http://www.gamefront.com/files/20767816/attempt+number2+%28Manchester+United%2C+Aug+2012%29.tac Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Odom Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 I've downloaded your tactic and I'm trying to guess you team setup. There are two things that I notice immideatly. You are playing with a typical targetman and two holding midfielders. My guess is you are not penetrating the weaker teams, while struggling to get your targetman to do anything right against stronger opposition. I normally tend to make play more creative and, since you're managing a top team (if I interpret your tactics name correct), you should do more to penetrate the opposition. I would play a more creative attacker, place all midfielders on "roam" and play at least one more attacking-minded central midfielder. If I'm correct, you would still have Carrick as central midfiielder, make him a bit more creative and don't limit all of his attacking options, this can be key against your weaker opponents. Your targetman makes no attemps to cut through on goal, Maybe he can make at least some runs forward, although this is down to you playing style. But if you re playing him this way, you should make your full backs more attacking. You realy lack wide players, make your FB's more attacking! If they are no good at crossing, just make them go forward, even only to make the oppositions full backs to mark them. My guess is, you are soly trying to build a super tactic that works against all teams.Maybe you should be more rounded in your tactical set-up? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuffers007 Posted September 11, 2011 Author Share Posted September 11, 2011 im in 3rd season with man utd using lg summer update. my first 3 games i absolutley smashed teams scoring plenty and conceding none then all of a sudden its gone pair shaped, conceding far to many and losing to teams i shouldnt be. i just do not understand where im going wrong? im going to implement your ideas and see if things improve,if not then i will just have to admit defeat what would you suggest to make my fwd score more goals? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Odom Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 im going to implement your ideas and see if things improve,if not then i will just have to admit defeat what would you suggest to make my fwd score more goals? Who scores you goals? Tis isn't an issue. As long as you do score when it counts. I'm no tactical king ( ) but I'm no noob either. Just trying to get things right. Can you post some more info about you last game? Possesion, passes completed, crosses, crosses completed, long shots, clear cut chances, shots on goal, and shots on target would be helpfull. PLease, don't admit defeat. You are NEVEr defeated as manager in the beautifull galme! Don't give in! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuffers007 Posted September 11, 2011 Author Share Posted September 11, 2011 how do i post screen shots? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Odom Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Just use the third button from the right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuffers007 Posted September 11, 2011 Author Share Posted September 11, 2011 im really sorry to be a pain but that doesnt help me at all i have no idea how to get screen shots let alone put them on here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintage75020 Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 as im only learning would it be possible to upload my tactic for you to check and see what its like? as extra input is never a bad thing!!im hoping it can further my education with someone else point of view. http://www.gamefront.com/files/20767816/attempt+number2+%28Manchester+United%2C+Aug+2012%29.tac do you use oi or touchline Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuffers007 Posted September 12, 2011 Author Share Posted September 12, 2011 no i dont use either of those. i can never be bothered with them, lazy i know Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerousdave74 Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 the download dont work Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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