Very low natural fitness causes massive attribute drops?

[suikoden]

I have Chivu who has a 5 for natural fitness and a couple months (only) into the season and suddenly every single one of his stat in technical attribute column has dropped except for long throws and marking. It is literally a column of red. There are also 6 drops in the mental section and none in the physical attributes. I am guessing it is his low natural fitness that has caused this as the training schedules are fine and he is happy with it. He is also match fit.

I have never had this happen to me before even when I had low natural fitness players although I don't think ever as low as 5. Single digits definitely. This is a massive problem as I play with a defensive left back to offset my attacking right back and Chivu is one of the best defensive left backs in the game.

Big stat drops is a complete nightmare and uncontrollable for a training layman like me.

[SFraser]

Natural Fitness controls condition recovery. It does not directly control CA gain.

If a player receives multiple numbers of a drops in attributes it is either because of a dramatic change in his training schedule or a sudden loss of overall CA or a change in his attribute weighting pattern through retraining position. Most likely it is a combination of multiple reinforcing changes in an attribute or set of attributes.

The kind of behaviour you describe occurs very often when training is altered, CA is altered, or the players preferred position is altered.

The interesting issue is that when CA drops, usually it is Physical Attributes that decline first, especially with someone of the age of Chivu. Because it is technical attributes that are dropping I would assume that either his preferred position or his Training schedule has been altered recently.

However if his physical training is high enough, then any CA drop could come out of his Technical Attributes.

You will know if his Training or his Position has changed recently. If this is true then it is the culprit. If not true then it is verly likely to be a CA drop balanced by high levels of Physical Training.

If it is a CA drop then it is likely to be because of A: returning from injury or B: just after the start of the season or C: because he is aging. If it is A or B it can be recovered, if C then it is likely to be permenant and you must adjust his training to recover the lost attributes, but it will come at the cost of other attributes and likely physical attributes.

[suikoden]

Thanks for the detailed post. Was hoping you could help out. I am guessing it is the start of the season. I have my training schedule geared towards defending over physical stuff so I'm guessing that is the culprit. Also if this is case C and he isn't aging very gracefully then I guess I would have to live with decrease technical ability. His physical stats are already low enough as it is.

Thanks for the help champ.

[SFraser]

Thanks for the detailed post. Was hoping you could help out. I am guessing it is the start of the season. I have my training schedule geared towards defending over physical stuff so I'm guessing that is the culprit. Also if this is case C and he isn't aging very gracefully then I guess I would have to live with decrease technical ability. His physical stats are already low enough as it is.

Thanks for the help champ.

No problem.

If it is the start of the season/injury then just wait untill he gets back into full swing of things and his attributes should pick up.

If it is because of age then be thankful it is not coming out of his Physical Attributes because you can put stuff back into his technical attributes if you wish, but you can't do that to his physical attributes.

If it is because of age, and you want it back, then reduce his Aerobic category and not his Strength. Reduced Aerobic means he wont be so dynamic on the pitch but can still play alot, but reduced Strength means reduced Stamina which means reduced playing time which results in an unstoppable landslide of CA loss and his career is over.

Probably the best advice I can give though is to get used to/expect declines after holidays/injuries/signings and also expect small declines after a player has being playing out of his skin. These small changes in performance levels/playing time/club-competition level will have an effect on a players CA especially if he is close to his peak, but you will get it back when he gets back to the same level of performance and competition he was at. Attributes do fluctuate alot in the game, it's the sharp declines that never seem to stop no matter where you try and put them through training that is the real worry.

Basically players hit a peak during a season, and it is reflected in their CA. When that peak is over, their CA will decline especially during the off-season, but they can get it back by hitting another peak next season, untill they get too old.

Natural Fitness 5 is a concern for the amount of time it takes to recover condition after a game, and it will eventually affect a players CA and his career, but not directly. It will prevent an older player recovering fast enough to play regularly which will in turn reduce his Match Experience and then his CA, but it is not a direct relationship. This is why Stamina is so important in older players.

For Chivu, I would suggest focusing on his Stamina as a priority. Even if he is not yet old enough to really decline or feel the effect of his 5 Natural Fitness, it will extend his career in the long run if you focus on his Stamina.

[vasilli07]

SFraser, does that apply to aging Gks too? Do we need to reduce their aerobic cause agility is a important attribute for a gk?

[Trilo_G]

Just happened to me with Vagner Love. I've just bought him, he's just recovered from an injury, and it's the start of the season. Should I just keep his training schedule the same for now and have him play plenty of matches for the reserves? Will this build back his lost CA over time? He's not a key player so I don't need to throw him into first-team action at all, but I could give him some low-profile cup games or something...?

[SFraser]

SFraser, does that apply to aging Gks too? Do we need to reduce their aerobic cause agility is a important attribute for a gk?

The same principle of declining Stamina equalling declining condition equalling declining playing time does apply to a GK, but a GK uses up so little condition during a match it is pretty much irrelevant. A stamina 5 goalkeeper can play a full match at the highest levels of the game in condition terms, but might lack the other physical attributes necessary.

You still don't want his Strength attributes to plummet, but you can pretty much ignore the whole condition issue with goalkeepers. A small amount of strength training to prevent a complete collapse of the attributes is wise, but otherwise you don't have to worry.

Goalkeepers obey the same basic rules as outfield players, but because of subtle differences in how they play, in how their training is divided up, how they gain experience and how they perform etc. goalkeepers end up behaving to the human manager like a completely different beast altogether. The same basic rules apply, but the end gameplay and end issues to deal with are pretty much completely different.

Just happened to me with Vagner Love. I've just bought him, he's just recovered from an injury, and it's the start of the season.

That sounds like a perfect storm for a CA drop. All of these issues tend towards players losing CA, even transferring between clubs can have an effect on CA as the Reputation aspect of CA gain is recalculated and updated for the new club.

Just be aware of this and don't panic.

Should I just keep his training schedule the same for now and have him play plenty of matches for the reserves? Will this build back his lost CA over time? He's not a key player so I don't need to throw him into first-team action at all, but I could give him some low-profile cup games or something...?

That would actually make the situation worse or rather not make it very much better.

What produces CA gain, what determines how much CA is gained, is Match Experience x Playing Level. Playing in the reserves would give Wagner Love fewer matches at a much lower level of football, which would seriously restrict the recovery of lost CA. The best way to recover his CA would be plenty of matches at the highest possible level of football.

Ofcourse this is where the whole "management problem" gameplay comes in. You say he is not a first choice player, so what are you going to do? Play Wagner Love regularly to get him back to his best and maybe cost your team some poor performances or even points? Or do you keep him on the bench, restrict his recovery and have a player not at his best when the time comes when you really need him?

Sounds like you have some management puzzles to figure out there.

[Trilo_G]

My solution as far as I can manage, will be...

Make him available for reserves to build match fitness.

Play 4-4-2 in low importance Premiership and domestic cup matches, including him into the tactic. pretty easily done, as I usually play 4-5-1 and my first choice strikers have already proven that they can carry players WORSE than Vagner Love in his present state through plenty of matches.

As for high importance matches, I will be playing 4-5-1. Might take Vagner Love as a sub.

Aside from that, I see little else that I can do.