Playing FM 2009 and cannot win away fixtures

[scumbagentitlement]

Can't draw either for that matter. I'm playing with QPR and have a lot of young talent signed to specifically run the Frankie's Blitz and 4-2-3-1 Sidexplozia tactics (Jonathan Cristaldo, Federico Laurito my strikers, Douglas Costa, Hogan Ephraim wingers, Ephraim's -8 pa generated to 147, got really fortunate with my good young players pas, Connolly 152, Balanta 156, Dario Venitucci and Buzsaky my MCs, Fiorillo (189 pa) my goalie. Playing before with top level teams the two previously mentioned tactics won home and away. Right now I can't lose at home and can't win or draw away unless it's an away cup game. League aways I've just began going on holiday which is how i managed to win 1, other than that I got 1 away draw with seconds left in 4-2-4 desperation mode, what can be done? Nothing? Does anyone have a tried and proven away tactic to at least scrape some results? While I'm at it, off topic, Costa's pa is 172, and ca at present is at 137 yet my assistant with a judging potential of 15 or 16 says he is playing at close to his potential, and he won't seem to develop much, since arriving he's lost more stats points than anything while putting in 7.xx performances consistently, stats degradation for no reason is really annoying and has to end. Anyone know if the assistant is just wrong and if that happens? Or does the game put a freeze on some players development and that's that? He's only 19 years old and has 35 points of development left so this is a complete f***job. Anyway right now I'm more concerned with the away fixtures issue. Thank you to whoever reads all of that.

[Beardeye]

There is no simple answer to this. SI i think have said it is 6% harder to win away- so your team has to play 6% better away to win.

I switch my tactics for away games in FM09. If you are underdog away from home (normally the case) you need to play defensively (e.g mentality of around 6) and even if you are slight favourites away not higher than mentality of 11.

I have no idea what tactics you are talking about, i use a tactic set to adapt on the basis of weather and odds (see loversleaper FM09 tactics).

One thing i do know is that if you are playing an attacking mentality away from home it is bound to end in tears unless you have a world class squad and a team with a high reputation (which you dont yet have).

[scumbagentitlement]

They are attack heavy tactics yeah. The blitz tactic is a 4-2-2-2 or 4-4-2 formation basically. It's a 4-4-2 with the outside midfielders moved forward a notch, but with no forward run arrow set. Home fixtures with the speed and dribbling I have on the wings and a huge pitch I almost never lose. We get forward and stretch opponents thin then pick them apart. 4-2-3-1 is self explanatory I think, it seems to be a really popular formation. Standard defensive back 4, 2 MCS 1 with defensive settings, 2 attacking wingers, and an attacking middle free role behind a target striker. Anyway I figure if my talent would develop these tactics would be fine, but other than strikers it's pretty hard to develop guys who don't have insane professionalism ratings. Costa has a 15 professionalism and lost a point of technique, off the ball, crossing, free kicks, and corners after he joined, since then he has just recently gained back a point in crossing, and improved his long throws to 5. Long throws for my fast young left winger how useful. So I'm in late December of my 2nd season, and my record is like a mirror image home away thing, something like 10-2-10 9 home wins 1 home tie 1 home loss 9 away losses 1 away win 1 away tie. The must play defensive away thing could be true i guess, but it seems like that could only be if the program is set to intentionally fix league games away, because cup aways I have not nearly as many problems getting people to perform. I went to the final 8 in the league cup by way of a 3-2 extra time upset at Stoke (9th in the EPL at the time) where we outshot them like hell and created 8 clear cut chances to their three, but still needed a 79th minute goal to force extra time despite killing them everywhere but the score sheet all day. Other away cup games havent been as much of a problem, and a lot of my league away losses I outshoot out possession out chance and out everything opponents but hit woodwork 3 times and lose 1-0. I hit woodwork once a game on average it seems like, while opponents never do. Actual people probably couldn't hit posts as much as I do under game circumstances if they were trying to. When I can't lose at home and can't win away with a sample size of like 25 games it's really clear that the computer just won't allow it unless I am Chelsea or something. It seems way more than just a 6% disadvantage keeping me from getting results. Plus everytime I'm going to snatch a draw inevitably they score with 2 minutes left to beat me by a lightning fast dribble up the wing ending in a perfect cross etc. while my people basically stand and watch. I think it's clear the thing is rigged to be challenging even at the expense of logic. It does the same thing when you are a top flight club and can't score goals corresponding to all the chances you make. Anyway for away games simply outmanning the opponent at every position isn't enough, you have to be world class period. I think it's clear you are right. Anyway I can't change the unrealistic way I think the game was programmed so I'm interested in figuring out how to get some away results as opposed to nothing at all, which if I could get a single point in half of I would be top 6 as opposed to 12th probably. At the moment any away results at all I look at as sheer bonus because I assume they equal zero points the way things are going. Thanks for the recommendation I'll check that tactic out. Could I use it for aways but keep my home tactics? I mean like use the away tactics of it only, since it's a comprehensive set of tactics or something. I love the short passing, patient attack, wingers, technical skill stuff. Sorry about these manifestos.

[scumbagentitlement]

Damn I found the LL tactics, hopefully the DL links still work. There's a boatload of tactics, the Brazil, the Italy, the Claudio, and on and on. Can you really use this many tactics and have success or do you just pick 2 or 3? I always read you should only use a couple of tactics or your people will never get used to anything and always perform suboptimally. It's like the if you try to incorporate everything in your offense you will do everything bad maxim in American football. Me = American. Lived my whole life never having even watched what we call soccer. The football coach (American football) in my hometown actually lobbied to not have a soccer program at the school because he was afraid it might draw athletes away from his teams. It probably wouldn't have because this is one of those little Friday Night Lights towns, but that's the mentality. I find FM addictive, the scouting, the acquiring guys for your tactics and seeing them thrive aspect. Anyway as I get off subject again, do you actually use all of those tactics depending on the precise weather/odds/home/away/league/cup permutation?

[Beardeye]

do you actually use all of those tactics depending on the precise weather/odds/home/away/league/cup permutation?

Not really all of them, but some. you can stick with your home tactics which obviously are obviously working and just use different away ones. This has been denied but i find it takes 10-15 games for your team to get used to new tactics. Anyway i would use these LL tactics away from home (442):

Heavy underdog- Athletico (6)

Slight underdog- Athletico (6) if downpour or you can try Tapia if dry

Slight favourite- 4-4-1-1 Capello

Comfortable favourite- Athletico (11) or Italy

They certainly dont guarantee victory- but overally produce less losses away from home for me.

By the way if you are winning/drawing away from home with 80 minutes gone, the AI switches to 4-2-4. when u see them do that remove all forward runs from your fullbacks, tight mark their front 4 and close down always the MCs and DL and DR.

[scumbagentitlement]

Thanks, I'm gonna try just that. Thanks for reading my epic post there also. I always tight mark all strikers, so as soon as they switch they all get the treatment. Actually I run the full closing down hard tackling weaker foot on all players except the DCs and sometimes they get it too if they can pass. The strikers get hard tackling, weaker foot, closing down, and then tight marking as well. It's as much a superstition of mine as anything probably. If you don't do it the assistants with higher tac knowledge tell you to do it a few guys at a time until you do it to all of them anyway. What's your take on individual instructions with the LL tactics? Oh and how is the attacking stuff? Is the Brazil really a 4-2-2-2? The blitz tactic is technically a 4-2-2-2 but it has wingers making it really just a hybrid 4-4-2, whereas the traditional Brazilian formation to me looks more like it focuses through the middle and uses the fullbacks to do wide stuff. Kinda like the christmas tree formation I guess. Last thing, are there any free roles etc. in those away tactics I'm set to use?

[Beardeye]

What's your take on individual instructions with the LL tactics? QUOTE]

You should read his whole OP its very enlightening. He doesnt use OI but I close down always DR/DL and MR/ML and any players outside the normal flat 4-4-2 (AMR/L, DMC, AMC) as standard.

Any striker holding up the ball i tight mark always, close down, weaker foot and hard tackle if hte ref is not harsh. be careful tight marking quick agile strikers though as they will spin your last DC and score.

I move the d-line in all LL's tactics up by 4 notches as i prefer to reduce space and have my MR/L pressuring the opposition DR/DL. but drop it back if balls go over the top.

As for the attacking ones- read his post! its taken me a year of watching full matches to work out when to defend, when to play balanced and when to high pressure. its a complex game these days. but his tactics are sound.

[scumbagentitlement]

I screwed myself by starting out playing with high profile teams. you can sick Cristian Zapata on anyone and he'll mark them out of existence no worries. I found the tactics in a post that was in French or something from another board, i don't even remember now, but it had the tactics to download and must have copied and pasted the when to use each one part in English, since that I could read. So there's a comprehensive post for the tactics set and dude's whole philosophy on this forum somewhere? If so I'll look for it. I've become better at understanding the game and seeing things but I wouldn't know when a guy is holding up the ball in a match engine game no way. As of last May my exposure to the sport was oh well you kick the ball into the net right? I learned the standard rules such as when is a corner given etc. by watching enough match engine games and figuring it out on my own. Other than that I watched 2 confederations cup games last summer, Brazil hammering the US, Egypt upsetting Italy, and watched Wolves lose to Man City on ESPN 2 or something last month. I suck at staying on topic what I'm saying is I don't think I could spot a striker holding up the ball in the game. For fast strikers should I back off of them until the final 10 minutes if I am leading basically? or just back off at all times? My tactical understanding is getting a little better, like understanding passing triangles and how the 4-2-2-2 Brazil works because it uses overlapping boxes which give even more passing options plus you have the wingbacks running up the flanks added on. But that's IRL. In the game, I don't see much of nothing. I'm gonna play on my QPR save over the weekend and I'll report back on how the away tactics are working. Gotta read that post too. Whatever happens, my away results can only improve or stay as they are now, and I think these coupled with my new understanding that with a normal team I can't swing for the fence in away games is going to help a lot.

[scumbagentitlement]

I've found my away tactic. Tried Athletico 6 at first and got clobbered 3-0 by Leeds who have nowhere close to my talent and just got promoted, then lost 3-1 in the FA cup first round to Man City, not that I would blame the tactic for that one. My next away was at Swansea and because I was a slight favorite I used Capello and won 1-0 by hitting a corner just before halftime. Being a favorite on the road never made any difference up until then. Next time away drew 1-1 to Preston in a game where I created 4 clear chances and didn't make one but again hit a corner. Sometimes the ghosts in the machine just do that to you. I'm also using Capello as a defensive tactic at home when leading late. My league standing has stabilized from it's previous rollercoaster ride between 16th-9th, going up and down everytime I had a home/away. I'm now 6th which is the highest I have been since I went on a hot streak at the very beginning of my first season with the team and reached 2nd before things fell apart. My teams always seem to be excellent at corners, maybe from setting up in-swingers and getting forwards who can jump/head, a little preference I have. I usually have strikers challenge keeper and not DCs. Anyone know if that's preferable? I think their off the ball and agility lets them get better shots at them. Anyway being good at corners I should be able to scrape out away results. I think I'm going to stay with Capello instead of switching all the time depending on the odds. Athletico 6 seemed to be too defensive and just invited aggression leading to inevitable breakdowns. Any advice? Do you think this is a bad idea? If this proves to be a long term solution (i.e. the tactics keep working) then you will have saved my franchise from mediocrity so thanks for replying and making good suggestions. I owe you.

[Beardeye]

Glad things are improving! Capello is a solid tactic and although supposed to be reserved for world class teams i sometimes use it as well. You can also move the AMC up to make a second striker (and remove the free role, RWB often if appropriate) or drop him down to make a 5 man midfield (remove free role again) against other 5 man mids or just to win the midfield battle.

I have taken shrewsbury town to the prem league with LL's tactics and its my first season, so im very much a relegation battler and using Athletico 6. My current away form is played 17, won 2, drawn 3 and the rest, well, lost. its to be expected for first season in prem though and i should still survive on home form. in the next few seasons i expect it to improve. having said which the nine points i have savalged away have been crucial. anyway hopefully this shows you that everyone struggles away but it improves with your squad and reputation (i wouldnt have been promoted 3 times otherwise!)

By the way there is a bug in the match engine in FM09 if you have inswinging corners set to "6 yard box" and a man with good jumping challenging keeper. the AI is almost powerless against it (and cannot adapt due to the bug) so it can result in a lot of goals for that player. sounds like you have found it! Some people call it 'cheating' as the AI cannot adapt but its up to you how you want to play the game.

[scumbagentitlement]

I had shrews as a feeder club in my first campaign that i ran with last summer (wolves, selected because i liked the weird logo), when i didn't even know what crossing meant. they look like an interesting side, nice stadium for L2, and they have the whole spinal tap reference going on for them. isn't it hell to attract players to the black country? that i think would be one of the big issues trying to get non premier clubs that are outside of london to thrive. i took qpr because it wasn't at the top but was doable for a rise to glory, and they had the location to help attract some quality, with the money to close them too. plus the defense is solid without needing to make many new signings. defense guys to me are kind of meat puppets, once i've got my attack fixed i look to improve defense unless a gem comes along at a good price or something. anyway im convinced the attraction of london got me costa who with a 172 pa i hope will explode in the championship if he happens to develop to 150 or above before i get promoted. got christian benitez for 3.2 then sold him for 10 million before the season too (board stepped in), and fiorillo is a -10 guy with a 189 pa on my save though i don't know if he'll ever get close to his potential because he has low professionalism. i think my squad could keep build up a lot of quality by selling off strikers and bringing in new ones year after year, as long as i can keep finding the -9 guys in scouting at fair prices. does your reputation rating have something to do with if and how fast guys will develop? i read something about it having a big effect somewhere. i'm gonna keep the in swinging corners gravy train going, here i thought i was a genius this whole time for making aerial strikers a priority and my joy plane has crashed and burned. i've hit wood like 5 of the last 6 games and if i convert two of them into goals i'm probably 4th and not 6th right now, so i feel justified because it balances. to me it isn't cheating it's just a little quirk in the game, anything thats part of the game is fair play to me. the only thing i do that bothers me a little is looking at pa ratings, professionalism, and free roles in an editor sometimes. free roles really should be open knowledge though i think. oh i am interested in your shrews game, have you expanded the stadium yet? their place looks very nice but not more than 10,000 capacity or so. gonna keep using capello and let you know how it works over the next couple weeks. i think maybe athletico 6 was too defensive for a team that was pretending it was brazil 1970 to adjust to overnight, because it obviously works very well for you but i got curbstomped with it.

[scumbagentitlement]

oh and this is weird, in my capello, its a 4-4-2 not a 4-4-1-1 and there are no forward or backward runs as shown in the positions display anywhere in any of the tactics in the LL pack i downloaded, do you know if it's an older version? whatever the case is its working and thats what counts.

[Beardeye]

1- i don't know if he'll ever get close to his potential because he has low professionalism.

2- does your reputation rating have something to do with if and how fast guys will develop?

1- good observation, glad you are aware of this. In my opinion professionalism does not prevent full development, it simply slows it down. When i was in coca league 2 i signed 2 players with PA around 175 but with single figure professionalism. i intended to tutor them to increase but it failed. However, they have now had 3/4 seasons of first team football each, and their Pa's are both +150 and rising. So although professionalism does slow development, it doesnt stop it. first team football and good ratings in these matches helps.

2- Apparently the higher the club rep the better the development. similar to prof i suppose. as above though, keep playing them and getting good ratings and your biggest worry is holding on to them when big clubs see their CA rise.

So i survived my first season with Shrews in the prem. it wasnt pretty but in the end comfortable. i have managed to get the board to increase the stadium size twice now, the first time they did it by 1300 seats, and this time about 2500. i am not impressed. we are in the prem for f**k sake. and the shareholders took dividends of 4.5m- how dare they. put some more seats in the stadium you greedy...

[Beardeye]

oh and this is weird, in my capello, its a 4-4-2 not a 4-4-1-1 and there are no forward or backward runs as shown in the positions display anywhere in any of the tactics in the LL pack i downloaded, do you know if it's an older version? whatever the case is its working and thats what counts.

hmm. which thread of LL did you use??- you are playing 09 and using the 09 tactics??? forward and backwards arrows appear if you switch the forward runs to rarely or often i think.

[Steve Subbuteo]

Could someone point me in the direction in of a download link for the LL tactic set please. I've trolled the forum and can't find an active one. Many Thanks

[scumbagentitlement]

http://forum.manutd.nl/showthread.php?p=1279129

the exact place where i downloaded my set. try all of the download links because only one was still working when i did it last week. if that doesnt work i would send you the rar file personally but my main computer came down with a blue screen error thursday which rendered the thing unusable and was totally unfixable by me. it's going to get hopefully repaired by professionals monday. if i lost all my stuff i'm going to join a monastery, especially my save. seriously out of all the stuff on there, the fm save represents months of work. i can always redownload music etc. even if i wouldn't be happy about it. i hope that link helps bdeye know what thread/strain/version i have because i just don't know. bdeye: maybe executives from the american finance/insurance industry bought your team or something cause that sounds familiar. about player development, i'm glad to hear they finally do develop. costa is like my favorite guy i've signed so far because he had all that man u hype and the idea of him coming to qpr ca. 2008 was amusing to me, and his professionalism is 15 yet he's not developed noticeably at all in a year. steve: if all the download links are toast now and i get my computer rescued and you can't find the tactics anywhere i'd still be glad to send them to you. whatever happens i'll report back if i'm totally screwed or not. just when i was turning things around!

[Steve Subbuteo]

http://forum.manutd.nl/showthread.php?p=1279129

the exact place where i downloaded my set. try all of the download links because only one was still working when i did it last week. if that doesnt work i would send you the rar file personally but my main computer came down with a blue screen error thursday which rendered the thing unusable and was totally unfixable by me. it's going to get hopefully repaired by professionals monday. if i lost all my stuff i'm going to join a monastery, especially my save. seriously out of all the stuff on there, the fm save represents months of work. i can always redownload music etc. even if i wouldn't be happy about it. i hope that link helps bdeye know what thread/strain/version i have because i just don't know. bdeye: maybe executives from the american finance/insurance industry bought your team or something cause that sounds familiar. about player development, i'm glad to hear they finally do develop. costa is like my favorite guy i've signed so far because he had all that man u hype and the idea of him coming to qpr ca. 2008 was amusing to me, and his professionalism is 15 yet he's not developed noticeably at all in a year. steve: if all the download links are toast now and i get my computer rescued and you can't find the tactics anywhere i'd still be glad to send them to you. whatever happens i'll report back if i'm totally screwed or not. just when i was turning things around!

Thanks a lot. Been getting clobbered away so interested to give these a try. I hope your computer is salvageable mate.

[scumbagentitlement]

thanks. whatever happens with the computer i feel a strange peace that comes with being totally fcked, since there's nothing i can do about it but take it to people that get paid to know computers and maybe fix it. it's out of my hands. i think it should be ok, the data is still there its just unreachable because the thing blue screen errors immediately upon booting windows. im willing to have them put the long term memory into a new hard drive or whatever they can do because some of the things are irreplaceable. likewise to you i hope the tactics help. i found that capello worked better for me than the more defensive tactics, maybe because its short passing and all of my stuff was dink dunk passing and they took less adjusting to it. the post i sent explains in english thank god what passing style each is and when they recommend using it, so maybe you could find the one perfect for your squad.

[Beardeye]

This is the link to the LL i use. Capello is a 4-4-1-1 in this. http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=141170

You should read the whole thread, especially the season he sets out in detail to get an idea of how to use the tactics and interpret the info the game gives you.

One of these days i will try and get around to posting screenies of some of younger players with low professionalism who have none the less developed through first team football alone into good premiership players.

[scumbagentitlement]

looks good, if i get my data back i'll check it out. if i lost my fm save i'll be so dejected i won't be able to play the game for a few years probably. it's late here right now but tomorrow i'll try to read because i wanna get an idea of how many tactics he uses or recommends. i can't imagine using 10 different tactics with a different one for every different circumstance but i'll check it out. if and when i get my computer back and fiorillo becomes a 189 goalie if i can hang onto him i will post it, his stats would probably look so high people will think i used an editor.

[Bruce Drundrige]

My recommendation? Paragraphs.

[scumbagentitlement]

Oh sarcasm, that is awesome. This thread is kind of dead anyway because I fixed my away problem. It can degenerate into I'm cooler than you are now.

[scumbagentitlement]

So I got all of my files back, and so now I can check out the 4-4-1-1 Capello, and obviously I have decided to not go to Vegas and drink myself to death. I did spend all weekend reinstalling my programs and cleaning things up, but I was happy to be able to do it. Sorry if this is a lame thread and I'm bumping it now. Also, I know I make ridiculously long stream of consciousness posts sometimes, but there's a way to tell me something and a way not to. BD I'll keep you updated on my away fixtures, I only ran about 4 of them before the computer went teets up. I'm still interested in seeing your players' development if you get the time.

[Beardeye]

I'm still interested in seeing your players' development if you get the time.

I posted a couple of screenies and explanations in this thread http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?p=4957965#post4957965

[scumbagentitlement]

Looks good, I could use Stitt with his tackling, concentration, overall speed, and that positioning rating. I would give up a lot less crosses and runs down my left side would be unheard of. If he gets his crossing up with his remaining points you've got the complete prototypical fullback. The download link to the version of the LL tactics you sent is dead. Do you know of any other places?

[Beardeye]

Looks good, I could use Stitt with his tackling, concentration, overall speed, and that positioning rating. I would give up a lot less crosses and runs down my left side would be unheard of. If he gets his crossing up with his remaining points you've got the complete prototypical fullback. The download link to the version of the LL tactics you sent is dead. Do you know of any other places?

Indeed, he is solid at the back but rubbish going forward- i am putting most of his training efforts into improving this but expect one day i will find someone better in the final third and bring him in.

If u PM me your email address i can try and send you the tactics, although my tech skills are rubbish.

[scumbagentitlement]

Ok, will PM you in a minute. I have one game left, away at Crystal Palace. If I win and Leeds and Derby both lose or tie then I'm in the playoffs. I'm 8th and they're 6th and 7th. I wish I would have gotten advice and started playing more balanced when away much earlier. I'd be assured to have a spot. Even at that I got FMed out of a lot of points in the last month drawing and losing games i should have won or drawn. The only thing I have going for me is that CP is a rivalry game and I was thinking that could help us pull off the win. It will take a miracle for Leeds not to get 3 points though. Would you go on the attack given those circumstances?

I'm thinking about bringing in a more experienced goalkeeper for next season. Fiorillo has pathetic ambition and professionalism and I don't think he is going anywhere until I at least tutor him. In 30+ starts he improved his aerial ability 1 point and made no progress anywhere else. I'm thinking he can get loaned and develop by dominating a lower league after he improves his work ethic by tutoring, if the punk even accepts being tutored. I know you said that with experience they still develop but what if his professionalism and ambition are both not higher than 9 and our team rep is like 5,000? Still a keeper? The way it's looking I would probably take a 50% loss on him if anyone would make an offer.

[Beardeye]

Would you go on the attack given those circumstances?

I still play it by odds away from home. Normal/Heavy underdogs i go athletico (6). slight underdogs i dont go higher than capello.

Slight favourites away i consider Atheltico(11) or Italy but often still play with a mentality of 6 to start with, and move up if they are playing quite defensively or i need a goal. Certainly consider going attacking for the last 15 min if you need a goal.

I know you said that with experience they still develop but what if his professionalism and ambition are both not higher than 9 and our team rep is like 5,000? Still a keeper? The way it's looking I would probably take a 50% loss on him if anyone would make an offer.

I've never successfully developed a young talented keeper. Having a sub standard keeper can cost you way too many points over a season. I buy in experienced keepers and mostly have the youngster as backup, but even then i get nervous playing him. others may have had better luck, but my advice is buy an experienced one.

[scumbagentitlement]

thanks for the tactics. next year i think i'm gonna institute the full ll set, in the sense that i'll pick 4 or 5 and use them accordingly with the situation, see how it goes. i tied for second in goals scored in the championship with 73 (fulham was ridiculously in the lead with 90+ and i beat them 3-0 at home and lost 0-1 away on a penalty kick at the end after outshooting them something like 16-7 or so) but we were way too leaky especially down the backstretch. hopefully balanced tactics and a keeper who isn't an unfinished product will help. keepers never seem to carry a good rating over the course of a season, even when i was chelsea and had akinfeev he was usually around 6.95 during seasons where we might allow less than 20 goals all year. i guess it probably hinders development. i saw the chance to get a high -10 player to a second league team and jumped at it without thinking it over as much as i should have. a good lesson learned.