Excessive Major injuries

This is something that would really fall under an unfortunate circumstance rather than a bug. It's incredibly rare for players to sustain injuries like this overall, but a player can fall into a cycle where bad injuries stick with them. 

Bad luck befalls players, in this instance it just turns out it has happened to one of the more high profile individuals in Mbappe. 

12 hours ago, Michael Sant said:

This is something that would really fall under an unfortunate circumstance rather than a bug. It's incredibly rare for players to sustain injuries like this overall, but a player can fall into a cycle where bad injuries stick with them. 

Bad luck befalls players, in this instance it just turns out it has happened to one of the more high profile individuals in Mbappe. 

can you cite an instance IRL where someone has suffered a broken leg twice in the same season?

Edited November 3, 2023 by ootek

I'm not too sure how that would alter the fact its always a possibility that could happen to a player. If you notice a trend of players suffering a broken leg and then doing so again shortly thereafter then that may be something to investigate in the future. At this point its still just terrible luck however. 

i'm not sure i follow your logic. If this is supposed to be a simulation, and such an event has rarely, if ever happened, then what is it simulating? 

another question that should be asked - the game accounts for "Injury prone" players. does it account "less injury prone"?

shouldn't a player that's never had an injury history, especially younger players have a significantly lower chance of injury?

why not try to provide some factual data about real life(that the game is supposedly simulating) and/or the simulation itself rather than just hand-waving and saying "terrible luck"?

 

 

50 minutes ago, ootek said:

i'm not sure i follow your logic. If this is supposed to be a simulation, and such an event has rarely, if ever happened, then what is it simulating? 

another question that should be asked - the game accounts for "Injury prone" players. does it account "less injury prone"?

shouldn't a player that's never had an injury history, especially younger players have a significantly lower chance of injury?

why not try to provide some factual data about real life(that the game is supposedly simulating) and/or the simulation itself rather than just hand-waving and saying "terrible luck"?

 

 

My guy, you are asking someone to provide real data when you aren't providing any real data yourself. This stuff happens; it can happen and it does happen. It sucks. Injuries are random to a degree, but also based on injury proneness, which is something in the game. It's not impossible for Mbappe to break his leg twice, just like it isn't impossible for Timber to tear his ACL in his first game for Arsenal or Kaladzjic have the same thing happen for Wolves. This is like getting angry at a 1,000,000-sided die for landing on the one number you didn't want, it's unlikely but possible. SI can't just decide for players not to get injuries, and just because something is so unlikely doesn't mean it simply shouldn't be a possibility in-game.

23 hours ago, Dijon-Main said:

My guy, you are asking someone to provide real data when you aren't providing any real data yourself. This stuff happens; it can happen and it does happen. It sucks. Injuries are random to a degree, but also based on injury proneness, which is something in the game. It's not impossible for Mbappe to break his leg twice, just like it isn't impossible for Timber to tear his ACL in his first game for Arsenal or Kaladzjic have the same thing happen for Wolves. This is like getting angry at a 1,000,000-sided die for landing on the one number you didn't want, it's unlikely but possible. SI can't just decide for players not to get injuries, and just because something is so unlikely doesn't mean it simply shouldn't be a possibility in-game.

maybe you should read the whole post again. the post starts with my "real data" attached - the injury report in question. 

and what i have asked has nothing to do with a thing being a possiblilty or not. please re-read again i'm not going to re-type my questions.

and why does my asking legitimate questions about game mechanics lead you to anger?

20 minutes ago, ootek said:

maybe you should read the whole post again. the post starts with my "real data" attached - the injury report in question. 

and what i have asked has nothing to do with a thing being a possiblilty or not. please re-read again i'm not going to re-type my questions.

and why does my asking legitimate questions about game mechanics lead you to anger?

Your "real data" is anecdotal evidence from one player in one save game, it's not even close to statistically significant.

26 minutes ago, Dijon-Main said:

Your "real data" is anecdotal evidence from one player in one save game, it's not even close to statistically significant.

well friendo, the fact is, it actually happened and that's why I'm asking questions.

but i'll be sure to ask your permission from now on before i ask a question about the game i payed for. lol

Edited November 6, 2023 by ootek

On 04/11/2023 at 18:24, Michael Sant said:

I'm not too sure how that would alter the fact its always a possibility that could happen to a player. If you notice a trend of players suffering a broken leg and then doing so again shortly thereafter then that may be something to investigate in the future. At this point its still just terrible luck however. 

in the video below, Zealand addresses where "possible" things within the game are not realistic and in some cases realistic things were not possible in game and both have been addressed to some degree in FM 24.  Are injuries a topic that are ever looked at?  Surely SI track in-game injury type and frequency? how does it compare to real world data, if it is compared at all? and to re-iterate one of my earlier questions, if the game accounts for "injury prone" players, does it take into account for healty or less "injury-prone" players as a hidden stat? 

 

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by ootek

1 hour ago, ootek said:

 Surely SI track in-game injury type and frequency? how does it compare to real world data, if it is compared at all?

FM has less injuries than in the real world, they have repeatedly confirmed this (except for Goalkeepers in the FM24 beta which had issues I believe)

5 minutes ago, RdNetwork said:

FM has less injuries than in the real world, they have repeatedly confirmed this (except for Goalkeepers in the FM24 beta which had issues I believe)

seems like that would be the easy answer to my question then?  can anyone link to an article or post that shows the delta?

Injuries run at about 80% of the real life levels in the FM series in recent years. This is still the case in FM24. Injury proneness as an attribute does play a part, however, it doesn't negate the possibility of a player simply having bad luck. 

14 minutes ago, Michael Sant said:

Injuries run at about 80% of the real life levels in the FM series in recent years. This is still the case in FM24. Injury proneness as an attribute does play a part, however, it doesn't negate the possibility of a player simply having bad luck. 

is injury proneness higher for older players? less for younger? 

since there are "injury prone" players, shouldn't there be "healthy" players as well? seems like i remember verbage in injury reports when using a specialist that there is less chance of an injury reoccuring?

Edited November 6, 2023 by ootek

No, bad luck doesn't have a number. Injuries don't just happen as a result of the injury proneness stat or any other individual aspect.

1 hour ago, Michael Sant said:

No, bad luck doesn't have a number. Injuries don't just happen as a result of the injury proneness stat or any other individual aspect.

Would you guys ever consider putting in a setting where people could choose to play with 100% of the real-life level of injuries? I think for some people this would be more fun as it adds to the necessity of building a balanced and deep squad.

9 minutes ago, Dijon-Main said:

Would you guys ever consider putting in a setting where people could choose to play with 100% of the real-life level of injuries? I think for some people this would be more fun as it adds to the necessity of building a balanced and deep squad.

It's something that a number of people do mention, we'd always welcome posts on exactly what you envisage (just 1:1 ratios with real life, possibly more injuries etc) through feature requests:

https://community.sigames.com/forums/forum/680-football-manager-feature-requests/

Save game compatibility is perhaps the shining beacon of large-scale feature requests from many people helping guide development in a substantial manner. 

Had two goalkeepers within a month or so of each other break (or fracture) their lower arms while "catching a ball" in a match.

For that to happen twice to one squad in a relatively short time period defies the odds, you have to admit that.

8 hours ago, MrCell0phane said:

Had two goalkeepers within a month or so of each other break (or fracture) their lower arms while "catching a ball" in a match.

For that to happen twice to one squad in a relatively short time period defies the odds, you have to admit that.

That is likely an actual issue. We are aware of goalkeeper specific injuries being too frequent at the moment so it's something we're working on.

On 06/11/2023 at 13:40, Michael Sant said:

No, bad luck doesn't have a number. Injuries don't just happen as a result of the injury proneness stat or any other individual aspect.

are you saying the "injury prone" note on coach/scout reports has no relation to injury frequency?

15 hours ago, Michael Sant said:

That is likely an actual issue. We are aware of goalkeeper specific injuries being too frequent at the moment so it's something we're working on.

why is this an issue? it's undoubtedly possible. 

On 06/11/2023 at 15:24, Dijon-Main said:

Would you guys ever consider putting in a setting where people could choose to play with 100% of the real-life level of injuries? I think for some people this would be more fun as it adds to the necessity of building a balanced and deep squad.

seeing how most every team/league has roster rules that govern team size anyway,  i have to ask how have you been playing otherwise?

maybe SI can include a slider so that you can exceed the max so that you can hoard players?

28 minutes ago, ootek said:

seeing how most every team/league has roster rules that govern team size anyway,  i have to ask how have you been playing otherwise?

maybe SI can include a slider so that you can exceed the max so that you can hoard players?

I can tell you're being snide, but a slider is actually a good idea. Also it's not about hoarding players; it's sometimes enjoyable to have a squad player get a run of games in because the starter got injured. But a slider is good, because then I can have it my way and you can have it yours.

15 minutes ago, Dijon-Main said:

I can tell you're being snide, but a slider is actually a good idea. Also it's not about hoarding players; it's sometimes enjoyable to have a squad player get a run of games in because the starter got injured. But a slider is good, because then I can have it my way and you can have it yours.

i'm not sure what "being snide" or not has to do with anything - that's your own opinion though. but it was an honest question, because you imply with your question that having a balanced, deep squad is not the norm. when to my knowledge roster size (be it small-balanced or large-deep)is governed by most competitions anyway.

and i agree, sliders are a good idea, a lot of games have them. for a variety of game settings.

for example, it would be nice not to have the AI target my roster in an unrealistic manner. i.e., an Italian team taking my homegrown German player to only have him sit the bench for multiple seasons until his contract expires and i re-sign him. or let me put the "not for sale" tag on my players the way the AI does?

which goes back to the original intent of this thread and Mr. Zeeland's video, i'm bringing attention to something that is unrealistic to a game which purports to simulate "real" football. whether a thing is "possible" or not seems irrelevant. 

 

While I appreciate you're unhappy with the situation, it isn't something we'd consider to be a bug. If every season at PSG Mbappe was getting double broken legs, that would make sense to look into further on our side. It's unfortunate, it can happen in football and in this instance has. You may well be the only instance of this in the 6/7 figure number of seasons started so far. You can definitely advocate for your view, and certainly a lot of arguments surrounding realism is valid. Keep in mind though the most unrealistic thing to ever happen in the FM series is allowing a player to be the manager of a football team.

4 of my team have damaged cruciate ligaments from in-match incidents after 5 league games - surely that’s not right?