Julio Enciso

I've raised some feedback with the Brighton researcher as I do most windows as I have alpha access. Enciso was raised as part of that and there should be some changes for the full release. Not guaranteed though as these all opinions so they would need to agree with what we've raised. 

I definitely don't agree that he is as quick as Garnacho. More effective but nowhere near as quick.

I asked for an increase in passing, vision and decisions. Anticipation could be bumped a bit as well i guess.

Please don't share CA and PA if you can. Some people like to play without knowing it!

Edited October 20, 2023 by Brighton123

在 2023/10/20 在 PM11点06分, Brighton123说:

I've raised some feedback with the Brighton researcher as I do most windows as I have alpha access. Enciso was raised as part of that and there should be some changes for the full release. Not guaranteed though as these all opinions so they would need to agree with what we've raised. 

I definitely don't agree that he is as quick as Garnacho. More effective but nowhere near as quick.

I asked for an increase in passing, vision and decisions. Anticipation could be bumped a bit as well i guess.

Please don't share CA and PA if you can. Some people like to play without knowing it!

I do agree with some of your opinion, but not all of them.

Enciso is not as fast as Garnacho,but close to him. Pace 14 is pretty slow in game, especially for an winger. Enciso is faster than many wingers in pl, I think his pace should increase to 16, not as good as pace 18 of Garnacho, but close to him.

 Concentration&Anticipation:

If you played enough game, you will find concentration and Anticipation are very very important mental attributes for an attacking player.I think his anticipation should increase to 14, concentration to 12.

To balance his ca, attribute that not important for an winger could reduce like Garnacho.

Anyway, thanks for your reply.

 

On 22/10/2023 at 05:39, acceptz said:

I do agree with some of your opinion, but not all of them.

Enciso is not as fast as Garnacho,but close to him. Pace 14 is pretty slow in game, especially for an winger. Enciso is faster than many wingers in pl, I think his pace should increase to 16, not as good as pace 18 of Garnacho, but close to him.

 Concentration&Anticipation:

If you played enough game, you will find concentration and Anticipation are very very important mental attributes for an attacking player.I think his anticipation should increase to 14, concentration to 12.

To balance his ca, attribute that not important for an winger could reduce like Garnacho.

Anyway, thanks for your reply.

Hello, I'm the researcher for Brighton. I appreciate the feedback but in this case I am comfortable with my ratings. Julio has a quick burst (hence the 16 for acceleration) but is a bit slower at full pace. One example that springs to mind was Stoke away in the cup last season, it was late in the game but he had only come on as a sub with 15 mins to play - https://youtu.be/MrYXA6yoQ2M?t=891. That's not a perfect example, as he slows down in possession of the ball - although to counter that, we'd look at Dribbling for running at speed with the ball and that's rated at 16 as it is. This is just one example I could pick out though - it's not the first time I've seen him get caught once he hits his top speed. I also think, as a teenager, he has plenty of room for growth in his mental attributes, and this will happen as the game progresses and he moves towards his PA. He's a very talented player but you can see when watching him that his mental attributes are not at the level of the seasoned pros, which is only natural at his age. 

 

That Enciso not sits among the very best wonderkids within the game is a mistake. His current mental stats alone, pretty much deems him useless from the get go and almost pointless longterm. Vision, passing and long shot should also go up. His long shot is elite, and to take on the best league in the world at 18 last year, with such fearlessness, takes some serious mental fortitude.

在 2023/10/23 在 PM6点42分, Simon Tipple说:

Hello, I'm the researcher for Brighton. I appreciate the feedback but in this case I am comfortable with my ratings. Julio has a quick burst (hence the 16 for acceleration) but is a bit slower at full pace. One example that springs to mind was Stoke away in the cup last season, it was late in the game but he had only come on as a sub with 15 mins to play - https://youtu.be/MrYXA6yoQ2M?t=891. That's not a perfect example, as he slows down in possession of the ball - although to counter that, we'd look at Dribbling for running at speed with the ball and that's rated at 16 as it is. This is just one example I could pick out though - it's not the first time I've seen him get caught once he hits his top speed. I also think, as a teenager, he has plenty of room for growth in his mental attributes, and this will happen as the game progresses and he moves towards his PA. He's a very talented player but you can see when watching him that his mental attributes are not at the level of the seasoned pros, which is only natural at his age. 

 

Hi, Simon. Thanks for your reply. 

I fully get what you meant, but I still have different opions, especially about his mental attributes. This time, I will show more  data in my argument. 

You can see four different players in the image below. I will give a quick summary.

I use datas from last seson except Palmer, cz he got enough game time only in this season.

Goals & Assists:

Julio Enciso is as effective as Garnacho and Palmer, and you can see the seasoned pros like Antony, got the same data in nearly triple game  time.

Shot Accuracy:

Julio Enciso is the best, especially he gets enough shots like 30.

Chance Created:

Julio Enciso is a little better than Antony,  much better than Garnacho,  as good as Palmer.

Tackles Made:

Julio Enciso is much better than Garnacho and Palmer,  better than Antony.

Take-Ons Completed & Take-Ons Success%:

Julio Enciso is much much much better than others.

Ground Duels won and Ground Duels Success%:

Julio Enciso is much much better than others.

 

These data shows us Enciso is the best young players in PL for sure. He is not only good in attacking, but also very reliable in defense.

When you saying "his mental attributes are not at the level of the seasoned pros", it's quit subjective, cz data shows us the opposite direction.

 

Now, let's take a look at his key mental attribute:

Concentration: 10,  (Garnacho 10,  Antony 13, Palmer 12)

Decesion: 8 (Garnacho 10, Antony 10, Palmer 11)

Anticipation:  8 (Garnacho 10, ANtony 13, Palmer 13)

Julio Enciso's key mental attribute is obviously underated, and 10 is far from normal for him, all these 3 attributes need upgrade to 12-13.

Maybe you would say Garnacho's mental attributes are not good too. Beleive me, with these mental attributes, Garnacho will be god in game, because his acc and pace are 18!

If you played enough game, you will know acc and pace are most important attribute in game, especially for wingers and strikers, and when these two attributes both reached 18, it will make the player obviously better than everyone else.

For example:

If we got two wingers A and B, and their key attributes are set like below.  A will perform way better than B in game, and if Acc and Pace goes to 20, he will be god!

Player A: Acc 18, Pace 18, Concentration 10, Decesion 10, Anticipation 10

Player B: Acc 16, Pace 16, Concentration 13, Decesion 13, Anticipation 13

 

If you don't agree with me, never mind. Plz open the game, and watch the progression of Enciso and Garnacho, you will find the answer. Garnacho will developed into top top wingers soon in Europe with no doute, but Enciso will be a pretty normal, maybe even worse wingers in PL.

Finally, I also watch the video in your post, and I also had different opinion.

With no offense, I noticed that Enciso is changing his direction to cut inside, it will slow him down, and on the other hand, the defender is chasing in a direct way, we all know that "The shortest line is between two points".

So, I think Enciso's attributes in game are pretty rubbish, he need to be reviewd seriously. 

Edited October 28, 2023 by acceptz

Thank you for your opinions, @acceptz.

The Brighton researcher has responded to your post in a respectful way.  You do not agree with him, which is fine.  However, stating your opinions as fact, using terms such as "obviously", "believe me", "if you played the game", and, in large, red font, calling out the research as "rubbish" does not make your opinions more valid than somebody who watches the player, live, every week, and makes informed judgements upon what he sees.  It also does not make it very inviting for him to wish to communicate further with you on these matters.  Please do consider these things before posting.

16 小时前, Pete Sottrel说:

Thank you for your opinions, @acceptz.

The Brighton researcher has responded to your post in a respectful way.  You do not agree with him, which is fine.  However, stating your opinions as fact, using terms such as "obviously", "believe me", "if you played the game", and, in large, red font, calling out the research as "rubbish" does not make your opinions more valid than somebody who watches the player, live, every week, and makes informed judgements upon what he sees.  It also does not make it very inviting for him to wish to communicate further with you on these matters.  Please do consider these things before posting.

I was shocked when I read this post, especially from a SI staff.

I bought almost every version of the game since 2010 even when I had no time playing it.When I played the beta of fm2024, I do spend my own time to collect data and report different opinions to the company, all I want is make this game a better one, especially when I saw the players I love performs very bad in game , as well as he is “obviously” very good in real world.

I’m quit disappointed that you pick up the single negative words from my long post, and speculate my motivation, and ignore all my evidences and opinions.

When I say “obviously”, what I meant is you can find the answer from my data easily.

When I say “rubbish”, what I meant is his attributes and performances in game. I am not a native English speaker, if this word make the researcher uncomfortable, I am sorry sincerely, I only want to share some opinions with you and make the player good enough in game to play like in real world.

I am really disappointed that you ignored the information in my post, and make the discuss into a personal criticize.

 

I apologise for misinterpreting the tone of your post, @acceptz. We always look into whatever feedback is sent in, and your motivation is appreciated.  

The best way to look at it is this: I have started 15 or more new saves in 24 to evaluate things. Enciso never becomes one of the best players, or merely "good" ingame. In fact he never goes anywhere in-game. In FM scouts wonderkid list he is far far down the list of best wonderkids. Overall he is lucky to be in the top 100 at all. In real Life he is among the top 10. I think the Brighton Researcher should look at how the other researchers have rated their best wonderkids. Either they are too generous in their ratings, or Enciso have been underappreciated. Its not a critic of the researcher, but a fact.

I'll put some comments in spoilers because not everyone playing the game wants to know the details.

Spoiler

Julio's Current Ability ranks him as the 15th highest current ability teenager in FM. So from that perspective, he is rated highly.

His potential will be randomised every time you start a new game between 140-170. His compatriot Miguel Almiron is 147, so there's plenty of scope for Julio to surpass his level. I suspect the 'problem' if you expect him to significantly progress, is that the lower end of his PA range wouldn't see him develop into the star you think he should. I don't deny that what's he's done so far has been very impressive for a player of his age and I'll certainly give this some more thought. A fixed PA might be the way to go.

 

在 2023/11/7 在 PM11点24分, Simon Tipple说:

I'll put some comments in spoilers because not everyone playing the game wants to know the details.

  隐藏内容

Julio's Current Ability ranks him as the 15th highest current ability teenager in FM. So from that perspective, he is rated highly.

His potential will be randomised every time you start a new game between 140-170. His compatriot Miguel Almiron is 147, so there's plenty of scope for Julio to surpass his level. I suspect the 'problem' if you expect him to significantly progress, is that the lower end of his PA range wouldn't see him develop into the star you think he should. I don't deny that what's he's done so far has been very impressive for a player of his age and I'll certainly give this some more thought. A fixed PA might be the way to go.

 

Thx for reply. I admire your working and deep thinking. And with no offense, I still had some opinions to discuss with you.

As a hardcore player of fm for many years, I'm pretty farmiliar with the game engine, and know how the attributes affect performance of the players.

Pace is the most important attribute for all players except GK, especially for wingers and strikers. All top wingers need pace >=16 in game, otherwise he would be a pretty normal player. When pace reached 18, it will make the player into another level. 

Concentrate, Anticipation and decision are very important attributes too, I always say they are T0 attribute in mental. Their value must great than 10 for all good players.

Enciso's anticipation and decision value is 8 at the begining, if his pa randomized to 165, and after seasons of gaming time, these two attribute will increase to 10-11 for the most. They not good enough for a good winger.

I know different researcher got different standard. Some searchers like strictly aligned with reality, and some researchers will consider the difference between game and reality. I think we should care about performances of player aligned with reality,  but not the simple single attribute.

So I suggest to change the attributes distribution of Enciso.

Pace 15-16, Concentrate 11, Anticipation 13, decision 12.

In this case, if Encision got 168pa, after seasons of gaming time, when his ca reached 168, these 3 attribute would be like this:

Pace 16-18

Concentrate 12-13

Anticipation 14-15

Decision 13-14

These three attributes are normal for a good winger in game.

I know if we make change like this, his original ca would be 145+, that not reasonable.

I noticed another factor that limited Enciso. He got three position value >12.

Left winger 20.

AM 19.

Right winger 17.

If a player got too many postions, and there values are greate than 12, the value of player's attribute will be smaller.

It's hard for to explain this in english, but anyway, thx for reading.