FM15 - Tactical Collapse

Collapse might be over stating it but it's starting to feel that way.

Anyway; not really had to come and ask for help on previous versions - not because I'm sort of FM genius but I've always managed to work stuff out to some extent on my own with a lot of forum reading (and a big thanks to all the posters of 'stolen' bits from over the years) . This version I seem to be truly out of my depth though.

I'm playing as Arsenal as I can't bring myself to oust Psycho. Seemed to be ok on the demo and had the same(ish) tictacs so imported them to the full version and just tweaked one position (covering defender as I couldn't get hold of Bonucci again who I had as a ball playing cover replacing the BFG). Only player I've bought into the match squad in this game is Obiang as a bit of midfield cover.

I use 2 (+1 'got to find a way through') formations that are all fairly different from each other in styles - which may explain why it took me 9 friendlies and over 2 months to become fluid in any of them. Suddenly I seem to be unable to do anything right though. As I've become more 'fluid' I've actually become less effective which is frustrating - although this is no doubt explained to some extent by the fact that I'm 12 points clear in the league after 15 games so the world and their wife are tightening up against me. Recently I've been seeing some fairly horrendous mistakes from quite a few of my players which are leading to the sort of outbursts that my neighbours will no doubt be complaining about some time soon.

So the tactics are:

4-2-3-1 wide (seems to be the natural Arsenal formation):

Control // Fluid

Shorter Passing // Work Ball into Box // Play out of Defence // Low Crosses // Drop Deeper // Close Down More // Stay on Feet // Prevent Short GK Distribution // Higher Tempo

Rational:

I want to control the ball, pass it around and look for the opening; when playing on lower tempos I found that if space did open up I wouldn't exploit it but pass backwards for more recycling of possession. I've gone with low crosses so that Welbeck doesn't see the ball sailing over his head (I'd consider going for whipped crosses if Giroud was ever not crocked and had him up front). Drop deeper is to prevent Mertesacker from being exposed by his complete lack of pace. Close down more is just to pressure the opposition (though I can't seem to get the whole team to press as a unit a'la Barca a couple of years ago).

GK - SK/D (Usually Szczesny)

Fewer Risky passes // Distribute to Fullbacks // Distribute Quickly

Basically; don't do anything stupid, let us keep the ball and build from the back but don't sit on the ball and let the opposition get back into shape)

Right Def - Wing Back/Auto (Debuchy)

Shoot less often // Close down more // Tackle harder // Cross more often

Marking isn't that hot so close down the opposition wingers to prevent the cross. As he can tackle (for an Arsenal player) he might as well intimated the opposition and he can actually cross....

Central ® Def - Central defender / Covering (Mertesacker)

Hold Position // Pass it shorter

If he wanders off then he'll never get back in time and he really really really can't pass.

Central (l) Def - Central defender / Stopper (Koscielny)

Pass it shorter

He can pass better than Met - just....

Left Def - Complete Wing Back (Gibbs)

Run Wide with ball

He's not the best defender but he can provide width higher up the pitch

Cent Mid ® - Box to Box Midfielder (Ramsey)

Move into Channels

Box to Box seems a lot better this year and they do perform both attacking and defending duties well. Tried this position as DLP/s on the demo but b2b seemed to give the team more movement.

Cent Mid (l) - DLP/D (Wilshire / Flamini / anyone else I can find)

n/a

Cover for when the attack breaks down

Wing ® - Raumdeuter (Sanchez)

Dribble More

It sounded interesting; the idea of someone wandering around on the right looking for space and he seems ok at it.

AM © - Advanced Playmaker/A (Ozil)

More Direct Passes // Move into Channels

He's a lazy arse but at least this *should* get him doing what he's good at. With all that vision and passing ability he should be able to get the forward line moving either by little passes or more direct through balls.

Wing (l) - Inside Forward/A (Cazorla)

Close Down Less // More direct Passes // More Risky Passes // Sit Narrower

Was worried that Ozil and Santi would get in each others way but that hasn't seemed to happen. He can spot a pass as well so was hoping that when Ozil was all tied up he'd provide another creative outlet.

CF - Advanced Forward/A (Welbeck)

Close down more / Pass shorter

Good turn of speed and decent stamina. Not outstanding in the air hence the low crosses. Aiming to get through balls from Ozil and Santi to set him free or low crosses from the wings that he can move onto.

So hopefully that explains what I'm trying to get my team and the players to achieve. Unfortunately what I see is:

Ozil and Santi refuse to play balls into the channels. Welbeck and Sanchez do make moves into those areas but my two 'creators' either run into someone, pass the ball sideways or look to move the ball to the flanks

Wide play seems to involve a player dragging their leg back in slow motion before smacking the ball against a defender for a corner; or a wide player being set 'free' down the flank and either slowing down or sometimes forgetting the ball and then knocking it against a defender for a corner. (While I'm on the subject of corners you'd have though that Ozil would have got a little bit better at taking them as he seems to spend quite a lot of the match practising them).

Ramsey isn't really breaking forwards but that is probably because all the lot in front of him are all set to attack he's aware that Ozil and Santi are about to not pass to a teammate and walk into the opposition instead therefore losing the ball.

I'm really not managing to create the chances I want though which are balls played through to Welbeck and Sanchez to finish or to drive beyond an isolated defender who has to commit himself leaving them free to shoot or find a better placed team mate (if they do the later then the wait for the entire defence to catch up again ).

Defensively things aren't so bad. The shape seems to hold and I'm hard to get behind (which is my greatest fear with Mert being so slow).

From a 'positional' PoV I've noticed some stuff that irks me and I can't figure out how to correct.

My DLP/D sits where I want during the attack - covering the defence and providing an outlet for them when our attack breaks down and they collect the punt up the pitch. When defending though they often sit on top of the central defence until the final quarter when they then start chasing around like a headless chicken.

On attacking corners I have a player (generally Ramsey) set to lurk outside the area. The idea being that they chase down any cleared balls and look for a pass or shot. This works fine if the ball lands within 5 yards of them (almost certainly an exaggeration) but they are continually beaten to the ball by slower players coming from further away if the ball doesn't land inside their (comfort) zone.

When defending corners my player on the edge of the box watches the ball sail over his head and makes no more to chase it or close down the player attack that ball.

(Are these last 2 due to their roles??)

Also when defending corners my defence makes no attempt to push up which can lead to an endless cycle of corners when combined with the above.

So if anyone has managed to wade through this wall of text could they suggest where I'm going wrong with trying to achieve what I think is achievable?

Oh and by the by morale seems solid apart from Rosicky who hates me for not letting him go home and fining him for playing like a donkey and Giroud who wants more 1st team action despite being crocked.

(That's just my main tactic - I've got a 4-1-2-2-1 for more defensive play and a 4-2-3-1 narrow - but if I can work out where this one is going wrong I can apply the knowledge gained to the others).

Great post - thanks! It's exactly the sort of level of detail we need to be able to chip in in a constructive and relevant way.

I'd agree that the 4-2-3-1 would seem to suit Arsenal, so I'll pose a few questions to get things started:

1. Why have you selected a Cover / Stopper partnership? I get the fact that Per is hardly the swiftest of players but has a good defensive brain, but this can lead to some defensive line "breaks", especially against twin striker systems or a 4-1-2-2-1 / 4-2-3-1 with an aggressive wide player or AMC - of which there are a lot in the Premier League.

2. Your AMC line is really aggressive with 3 Attack Duties behind an Attack Duty up front. When you watch matches back, what do you think of the defensive contribution of this AMC trio?

3. Ozil and Santi - you regard them as creative players, but Cazorla's Role isn't really creative. Ozil's Duty may mean that he is predisposed to looking at what he can do on the ball, rather than what passes he can provide. Above all else, the aggressive tactics and Duties used across this area of the pitch might mean that Welbeck and Sanchez have limited space / time to operate with. When they move into space, do they have any time on the ball?

4. Wide play - none of your wide guys, apart from the DL/R are actually going to hit crosses early. To do that you need a Winger (Support) or similar. Sanchez is drifting in field looking for space, as is Cazorla. There's no real width at the attacking end of the pitch AND you've asked Cazorla to sit narrower too.

My two cents is that you need to reel a few things in and reevaluate whether some of the Roles assigned and Instructions assigned are consistent with what you want.

I'll start with the defence as that's what works.

Stopper / Cover is actually working well for me. With Kos 'stepping out' to disrupt the attack either slowing them down or winning the ball Mertesacker almost always drops into a position to clean up any balls that come his way or to stop the opposition moving forward after a layoff. When play Wilshire as a DLP/D he quite often ends up next to Merts in this situation (a bit like a 1980's big lump / little tricky one but at the wrong end). Jack doesn't really have any defensive stats but it actually works quite well. I will also play Flamini as a CM/D in the same position as Jack and that changes the whole defensive dynamic (which is cool) but into one that still works. For some reason Kos is less aggressive in his 'stopping' when Flamini is chasing down - well the reason is that there's someone already there but it's nice to see that it's worked this out.

The D L&R are usually good at stopping the early crosses but the do have issues when they cover the wide man and the opposition also get a man to the edge of the box.

The only real defensive issue I have is from opposition goal kicks when both CD's and CM's will try and surround a lone striker - the ball will then end up at the opposition midfields feet 9/10 in this situation regardless of who wins the aerial battle. That's not to say I never concede but if all games were won 1-0 I'd be Arsenal circa George Graham.

My attacking mids are 'interesting' during defensive play:

Santi has no interest in it - either closing down or tackling but he's set to not close down so that's no surprise. He's not a worker and he can't tackle so IMHO it's no great loss.

Ozil will watch the opposition ping the ball around their midfield if they can't break down our defence until he gets bored and then will rush off and try to make an interception or a tackle (this is usually bad as he injures himself and/or gives away a foul). Like Santi he's not a worker and he can't tackle and it's a sacrifice I'm prepared to make for their other (supposed) talents.

Sanchez actually tracks his runner fairly effectively and appears to 'hand off' to his DRand will even cover to our corner if required. He's more nuisance value than solid defender but that's fair enough.

Welbeck will frequently track and close down (far more frequently than Ozil and Santi) and he's good at harrying the opposition CD's and DM's.

I'm aware that my A mid's a rather offensive. I've toyed with the idea of sticking Ozil as a APM/S but he frequently drops all the way back to our defence to pick up the ball as it is and that leaves him, Wilshire and Kos often on top of each other. This will be down to his 'Drops Deep' PPM. Is the thinking that he wouldn't do it even more if he was on support? Dropping him back and having him concentrate on picking the pass might give the other 3 time to move with Ramsey providing the 'drive' from deep. If Inside Forward isn't as creative as I thought it was I may as well take off the direct and risky passes?

Wing play is a bit hit and miss frequently Santi and Sanchez head out there just to win a corner - I suppose if Ozil is filling up their space then dropping him back and letting them head to the middle would give my full backs a greater number of targets. If that's the case then putting Ozil on support is killing 2 birds with one stone. I'm not really looking for wing play - as I've not got the height to exploit it but it always helps to have another option. The only real winger I have is Walcott and while he's useful and provides width I generally find he drives to the byline to find a defender to knock the ball off for a corner. He does provide me with a decent number of goals though so it's not all bad.

I'll give it a bash with Ozil on support and tweak Santi's instructions and if you've managed to un-muddle it then my thanks! Well thanks either way - it's always good to have a 2nd pair of eyes.

Yeah when I played 4231 I also got bored of Özil dropping deep. Try playing him as a false 9 in a partnership (was incredible in this role for me in FM14 with the tactics I was using) or I think playing him as a treq would also help since it's an attacking duty, should keep him higher up the pitch.

^ Treq's tend to drop deeper though while in possession. When you don't have the ball they will stay forward and not contribute much at all to your defense..

OP however, might want to consider that he's got a lot of congestion centrally in that 4-2-3-1 wide. I think you'd benefit from an advanced player who pulls out wide.

Sounds like unteaching 'comes deep' might be the way to go then.

^ Treq's tend to drop deeper though while in possession. When you don't have the ball they will stay forward and not contribute much at all to your defense..

OP however, might want to consider that he's got a lot of congestion centrally in that 4-2-3-1 wide. I think you'd benefit from an advanced player who pulls out wide.

Well that's been solved by dropping Ozil from APM/A to APM/S. There's a lot more space centrally for attacks; it has created a whole new raft of issues though .